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If you see my notes above about the Mangroll, it looks like Moldvay used characteristics from the Mangroll from their campaign in creating the version of the thoul for B/X. This would suggest that there wasn't a standard version in play at TSR at the time; or at least Gygax hadn't shared his version (if it existed) with them.




James Mishler noted in the Piazza thread that that item and several others (Hawk Helm, Ring of Ruthlessness) are copied almost word-for-word from the Arduin Grimoire Vol 1. It appears the handwritten material was written out by Bill Wilkerson rather than Moldvay or Schick.

Look at the wild "Wandering Dungeon Parties" (page 62 of the compiled doc assembled by Shannon Appelcline)

A few examples:

1st Level = Minotaur Fighter, Bugbear MU/T, Goblin Fighter, 5 Fighters

4th level = Hobbit MU, Lizard-Man Cleric, 6 fighters, 2 clerics, 2 MUs

5th level = Turtle-Man F/MU, 2 Dwarf fighters, 6 fighters, 3 MUs.

Much as Sauron was Morgoth's lieutenant, and stepped in to fill the power vacuum once he was gone, you could have a lieutenant of Sauron's attempting to take over his remaining forces/assets after he is gone.

Possibilities:
-Mouth of Sauron, Lieutenant of Barad-Dur (or another Black Numenorean)
-Gothmog, Lieutenant of Morgul (only briefly mentioned once in LOTR)
-A Balrog that Sauron unearthed from beneath the Mountains of Mordor
-Blue Wizard(s)
-An Uruk Hai or Olog Hai Chieftain
-Some kind of military mastermind from afar (the East in LOTR) like Thrawn in the SW Expanded Universe.

I can still remember when my dad came home from the library with an early hardcover copy of the "Third Planet from Altair":



I think this was around 3rd grade, and before I had discovered D&D, so it was as significant life event for me from a "gaming" perspective. I loved it, and soon after read others in the series, mostly paperbacks from the library. I later enjoyed the Time Machine and Interplanetary Spy series, the latter of which had a lot of puzzles to solve as part of the story.

Around the time I was getting into D&D, I also discovered the Endless Quest books, although I only really remember the first four, and one or two of the Super Endless Quest books I later had (where you had a character). I only every found one Fighting Fantasy book (City of Thieves), at our local library, so I never really got into those, but I loved the long-running Lone Wolf/Magnakai series. I think I played through most of the original 12 books.

But best of all were the Tolkien Quest/Middle-Earth Quest gamebooks, some of which were the pinnacle '80s gamebook design, with hex maps to explore, events based on tracked time, a character you could bring from book-to-book, and essentially an entire simple 2d6-based RPG system. I played through 5 of 6 of those (I could never find the 6th) with a dwarf named Fori I; I still have his character sheet around here somewhere.

Count me in!

paleologos has a post with an overview of the Tomb of Horrors tournament at Origins I, which was reprinted as part of the deluxe version of Art & Arcana.

osrgrimoire.blogspot.com/2020/02/origins-i-tomb-of-horrors.html

Thanks! That is intriguing. Previously, I had the impression that the OD&D Vol 3 table "Optional Arid Plains" - the one with the Barsoomian critters - was inspired primarily by running games in Barsoom itself (accesible via Castle Greyhawk) rather than in part of the lands of the Great Kingdom (which later developed into the World of Greyhawk). The idea of using Mars per se is reinforced in that booklet by the "Desert (Mars)" subtable for Men, and the mention of Mars in the section "Other Worlds" ("Some areas of land could be gates into other worlds, dimensions, times, or whatever. Mars is given in these rules, but...")

And I wouldn't have guessed Keoland as a home to Barsoomian fauna based on its later description in the World of Greyhawk folio, but it does fit better with the description in Quag Keep, where the "plains of Koeland" [sic, spelled Keoland elsewhere] are a largely empty and dry place, broken only by tributaries of a great river (geography which generally matches the "Megarry" version of the Great Kingdom map). The party in the story crosses "long dry patches" between the rivers, which causes problems for the lizardman in the party. "Arid Plains" certainly fits how Keoland is described there. On the Great Kingdom map, Keoland also runs up to the mountains bordering the Sea of Dust, another obviously dry area.

Today was the release date for Jon's (increment ) new book Game Wizards, and like magic, my copy arrived in the mail & I took this shelfie of it:




In the weeks leading up to the release, Jon made a series of "behind the scenes" posts to the Playing at the World blog:

Game Wizards: My New Book

Game Wizards: TSR Financials

Game Wizards: TSR Staffing

Game Wizards: D&D Development Timeline

Units of Value and the Tactical Studies Rules Partnership

There were also several related media articles:

Polygon: History of Dungeons & Dragons chronicles the battle between Arneson and Gygax

Polygon: How a pending lawsuit changed the original Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (a "never-before-seen piece that was cut from the final book")

Wired: The Missing Teen Who Fueled ‘Cult Panic’ Over Dungeons & Dragons ("This story is adapted from Game Wizards")

I looked at the Nature of Middle-Earth in person yesterday at B&N. It's nicely done, and I looked over some of the interesting bits. I'll put it on my Xmas list.

Looking forward to it. I love annotated lists like this!

increment has shared some new evidence of altered dates for the development of OD&D in '72-'73:
playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2021/10/game-wizards-d-development-timeline.html

You might also include the 1977 Origins D&D tournament organized by Arneson:
playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2020/04/dave-arnesons-origins-1977-tournament.html

I had assumed that the dungeon was written by Arneson (and could even be derived from Blackmoor?), although looking back at the article now, it seems implied but never actually stated (perhaps not known?)

I moved the posts related to 5.5E speculation over to the new Thoughts on the upcoming 5.5. Let's keep this thread focused on the painting/museum show.

For instance, here's Jeff Talanian, creator of AS&SH and Ghul here, with the painting as posted on Twitter on Aug 22nd:

FYI, Terry Amthor has passed away. He was one of the founders of ICE, and wrote Court of Ardor, and co-wrote Iron Wind, among many other later projects. I enjoyed A Spy In Isengard, his contribution to the Middle-Earth Quest Series, as a teen and still have a copy.

I've always understood Philotomy Jurament's article (the one jeffb linked above) to be a rationalization for the rules for dungeons in OD&D as written, not a separate setting from the rules. A mindset to help modern-era players appreciate the rules of OD&D.

I don't know of any published dungeons that lean into the "Mythic Underworld", but there aren't too many published OD&D dungeons in general. It does seem like an opportunity for someone.

The one thing I wrote that would expand the concept beyond the OD&D rules is my "Fearsome Monster" - monsters generated by the dungeon in response to the characters entering. This was inspired by Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood series (and named after some text by J. Eric Holmes), in which primordial forests recreate ancient, often-forgotten ancestral myths from the minds of intruders.

FYI, The Ruined Tower of Zenopus is currently on sale for $1.39 through September 7th, as part of DMsGuild's "September Starter Sale" of introductory adventures.

The Ruined Tower of Zenopus on DMsGuild

For old-school enthusiasts, on the blog I also offer notes on retro-converting it (you can just use the original, but there is added material):

Running It Retro, Part I

Running It Retro, Part II

The adventure went Platinum back in January (1,001 sales), and is now close to 1,500 sales. However, the next badge (Mithril) at DMs Guild doesn't come until 2,501 sales are hit.

Click here to find links to reviews of the RTOZ on by various reviewers (bloggers, Youtubers etc)