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Post by geoffrey on Jan 5, 2021 11:54:04 GMT -6
We are already up to the "L's" and still holding steady. The L chapter of the Fiend Folio has some of my favorite art from that book...possibly the best from all of 1e AD&D! Look at this glorious composition, it's almost Frazetta like:  That awesome drawing is an uncredited work by Tony Ackland.  |
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 5, 2021 11:55:05 GMT -6
I wonder if the Fiend Folio had looked like this if it would have a better reputation?  I like the Fiend Folio's original cover better, and I love the book's monsters even more.  |
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 5, 2021 12:26:48 GMT -6
I wonder if the Fiend Folio had looked like this if it would have a better reputation? For my part, the original cover is pretty much it's best quality. I found little use for the FF at the game table. There was an excellent post and resulting discussion about the FF in recent months over at Grognardia. I fundamentally disagree with James' take on the FF. (though I agree with him on the githyanki, I don't dislike them or anything, they're just overrated) If you look at Britain's take on fantasy gaming in general there was a huge swath of great material that TSR missed out on, as evident by the success of Games Workshop and that they are still in business while TSR is not. The FF was the first poke in that direction of fantasy gaming. I still find plenty of use for the FF at the game table. |
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Post by jeffb on Jan 5, 2021 13:03:06 GMT -6
For my part, the original cover is pretty much it's best quality. I found little use for the FF at the game table. There was an excellent post and resulting discussion about the FF in recent months over at Grognardia. I fundamentally disagree with James' take on the FF. (though I agree with him on the githyanki, I don't dislike them or anything, they're just overrated) If you look at Britain's take on fantasy gaming in general there was a huge swath of great material that TSR missed out on, as evident by the success of Games Workshop and that they are still in business while TSR is not. The FF was the first poke in that direction of fantasy gaming. I still find plenty of use for the FF at the game table. To the contrary I think James is spot-on on as regards to the FF in particular, and for my tastes TSR UK's crowning achievement was U1. GW is a different story and has more to do with sound business practices, good secondary acquisitions/buys and solid teamwork, whereas TSR's demise has to do with exact opposite- Quality of product is secondary in both cases. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 5, 2021 18:17:22 GMT -6
To the contrary I think James is spot-on on as regards to the FF in particular, Yeah, no. and for my tastes TSR UK's crowning achievement was U1. UK1 is pretty good. GW is a different story and has more to do with sound business practices, good secondary acquisitions/buys and solid teamwork, whereas TSR's demise has to do with exact opposite- Quality of product is secondary in both cases. GW saw money sitting on the table that TSR was ignoring and took it, and is still taking it. Dark fantasy that is a combination of grimness and humor. |
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Post by jeffb on Jan 5, 2021 19:53:14 GMT -6
To the contrary I think James is spot-on on as regards to the FF in particular, Yeah, no. and for my tastes TSR UK's crowning achievement was U1. UK1 is pretty good. GW is a different story and has more to do with sound business practices, good secondary acquisitions/buys and solid teamwork, whereas TSR's demise has to do with exact opposite- Quality of product is secondary in both cases. GW saw money sitting on the table that TSR was ignoring and took it, and is still taking it. Dark fantasy that is a combination of grimness and humor. I'm not sure how this contradicts what I said? It was smart business. Jackson and Livingstone were much better businessmen than the Blumes and Gygax (and She who shall not be named). TSR died because of a multitude of bad business decisions. It had nothing to do with the quality of their products- they were making money hand over fist and then screwed the pooch. As for the FF, we will have to agree to disagree- the book is definitely polarizing among D&D fandom. Even among designers. I recall that Mearls is a fan. Gary was not happy with it overall. It got a pretty poor review in The Dragon. White Dwarf loved it (of course!) |
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 6, 2021 0:33:31 GMT -6
As for the FF, we will have to agree to disagree- Yep. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 6, 2021 9:08:15 GMT -6
I like the Fiend Folio's original cover better, and I love the book's monsters even more. I happen to like the 1e hardcover redesigns TSR did in the mid 80's (except the PHB, nothing short of Frazetta will ever beat that cover, it's perfect). So I like how this unifies the look with those redesigns. That original cover though has special meaning to me because the FF was my first hardcover book (yeah, it was weird having the FF before the MM), and I first saw it in science class, and the teacher of that science class ran D&D games at lunchtime. He was a great teacher! |
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Post by jeffb on Jan 6, 2021 9:29:05 GMT -6
I like the Fiend Folio's original cover better, and I love the book's monsters even more. I happen to like the 1e hardcover redesigns TSR did in the mid 80's (except the PHB, nothing short of Frazetta will ever beat that cover, it's perfect). So I like how this unifies the look with those redesigns. That original cover though has special meaning to me because the FF was my first hardcover book (yeah, it was weird having the FF before the MM), and I first saw it in science class, and the teacher of that science class ran D&D games at lunchtime. He was a great teacher! This explains alot. First exposure. Had it been my first exposure, maybe I'd feel differently. It's like your first kiss or whatever. As for the newest poll- this is definitely a case of "overrated" or "done to death" when it comes to the Mind Flayer, but I suspect it will win. I'm unsure how I'll vote here- I've had some good fun (i.e. torturing the PCs) with the Mephit in The Sunless Citadel. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2021 10:55:26 GMT -6
My 2 cents. I'm a huge fan of FF. When it was first published, it swept through my gaming group's game table like a wild prairie fire. Its monsters augment the MM nicely, arriving with a different spin, flavor, and charm. For Tony Ackland's lizard men (MM) point to a lizard king (FF), perhaps lairing under the ruins! And what's not to like about death knights, kenku, lava children, and the various slaads? And then there are the githyanki, githzerai, modrons, and others, which fill in detail regards AD&D's Great Wheel... leading to gleeful conversations such as this one:
Player 1: When can we game in the planes?
DM: How about via Zoom, Wednesday: 7:00pm–11pm central time?
Player 1: Works for me.
Player 2: Me too!
DM: Done.
Everyone (in unison): Beware the Xvarts! For they have no mercy.
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 6, 2021 11:48:44 GMT -6
It's like your first kiss or whatever. Not kidding, my first kiss was with a hottie. I'll never forget her. Then she found out I'm a neeeeeerrrrrrrd.  |
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 6, 2021 11:53:40 GMT -6
As for the newest poll- this is definitely a case of "overrated" or "done to death" when it comes to the Mind Flayer I know, right? I came this close to choosing Mimic instead. Maybe I'll do a bonus round at the end for monsters that almost made the cut, or something. |
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 6, 2021 12:14:28 GMT -6
I like the Fiend Folio's original cover better, and I love the book's monsters even more. I happen to like the 1e hardcover redesigns TSR did in the mid 80's (except the PHB, nothing short of Frazetta will ever beat that cover, it's perfect). So I like how this unifies the look with those redesigns. That original cover though has special meaning to me because the FF was my first hardcover book (yeah, it was weird having the FF before the MM), and I first saw it in science class, and the teacher of that science class ran D&D games at lunchtime. He was a great teacher! Agreed about the Players Handbook cover. If I could use only one of TSR's monster books for an AD&D campaign, it would be the Fiend Folio. |
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Post by tombowings on Jan 6, 2021 13:58:13 GMT -6
I really the back cover of the original DMG, but I have a soft spot for the City of Brass.
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flightcommander
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Post by flightcommander on Jan 6, 2021 15:01:27 GMT -6
I really like Mind Flayers — what a concept! — but I've got to give this one to the mushroom men. (Mine are really mean though.)
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 6, 2021 15:11:09 GMT -6
I really the back cover of the original DMG, but I have a soft spot for the City of Brass. There is something extraordinarily compelling about a city of brass floating over a molten hot ocean of fire. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2021 16:16:45 GMT -6
The staggering unarguable insight that whatever else the Elemental Plane of Fire is, it's hot and oppressive there, became a rallying cry!  |
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
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Post by flightcommander on Jan 6, 2021 17:02:32 GMT -6
"Yeah, but it's a dry heat."
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 7, 2021 14:54:17 GMT -6
I like Mind Flayers just fine, what surprises me about them is that in general psionics aren't hugely popular, yet these beasts seem to be. I've always really liked the concept of Mephits, they are probably one of my favorite critters from the FF. And of course Myconids are classic.
I thought it was a pretty good round to choose from. Of course it is not a huge revelation that Mind Flayers would win out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 16:18:48 GMT -6
Mephits++;
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 6:06:55 GMT -6
I will always vote for Nilbog when it appears because it reminds me of the "so bad it's good" movie Troll II.
"Nilbog is Goblin spelled backwards!" *overly dramatic music sting*
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 8, 2021 13:29:48 GMT -6
I expected the Naga to get plenty of votes, but who knew the Nilbog would do so well? One of the silliest creatures from the FF. At least the lovely Nereid got a vote.
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Post by jeffb on Jan 8, 2021 14:01:55 GMT -6
Can someone remind me of the Ogrillon? Is it that big 4 armed ape? Or the half orc/half ogre? or???
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
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Post by flightcommander on Jan 8, 2021 15:03:13 GMT -6
The ogrillon is the orc/ogre hybrid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 16:31:04 GMT -6
The ogrillon is the orc/ogre hybrid. Oh? I thought that was an Orog but that's something different, isn't it? Like a super smart Orc or something. |
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flightcommander
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Post by flightcommander on Jan 8, 2021 19:03:01 GMT -6
Or maybe the Ergo — it speaks Latin?
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Post by tdenmark on Jan 8, 2021 20:23:46 GMT -6
Can someone remind me of the Ogrillon? Is it that big 4 armed ape? Or the half orc/half ogre? or??? Orc-Ogre hybrids. The choices were either Ogrillon or Osquip. Yeah, not much to work with there. |
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Post by jeffb on Jan 8, 2021 21:13:31 GMT -6
Ahh. Orog was the hybrid I was thinking of. Thank you @ampleframework
From the D&D Lore wiki
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 9:02:00 GMT -6
Ahh. Orog was the hybrid I was thinking of. Thank you @ampleframework From the D&D Lore wiki Looks like we were kind of both right. Seems to depend on who the mama is, and who the daddy is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 11:22:05 GMT -6
Anyway, I voted "Owlbear" for O. I can think of other iconic D&D creatures but none that I would say are more quintessentially D&D. The whole story about the Owlbear and Rust Monster being inspired by cheap plastic minis from the five and dime is 100 percent iconic for me.
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