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Post by badger2305 on Apr 7, 2021 16:50:53 GMT -6
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 6, 2021 21:37:27 GMT -6
Sometimes you just gotta know when to turn tail and run away. I think that principle often holds water, but not always.Over the past year I've played a lot of OD&D-ish and by-the-book AD&D 1st ed. games with Melan and the crew (online due to the pandemic). My experience is that very often "the players should be smart enough to recognise when to run away" is just a dismissive platitude by the DM rather than the reality of the game. (Not saying Melan is dismissive like that, I'm commenting on the general notion here.) In these old school systems, you often don't get to run away. You open an undistinguished door (or run into a random encounter), OOPS it's a level-draining / paralysing / disproportionately hard-hitting thing. You roll for initiative, OOPS, the thing wins initiative. It rolls attack, OOPS, the damage is done. And then comes the first time during the encounter when players actually get to make any decisions (such as running away). You run away, fine, but you've already lost your level literally before you could do anything. And even then, if you decide to run away, OOPS, the monster chases after you and gets a chance to attack some more while you can't strike back since you're running, it really would have been better to just stay and fight. And if it wasn't a wraith but a ghoul, running away means you leave the paralysed party member behind and he's dead. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining that D&D has danger, even great danger in; nor that bad things happen to PCs. What peeves me off is when grognardier-than-thou DMs smirkingly declare that the level drain (or whatever) happened because the players failed to be smart enough to run away - when in fact it happened because the rules never gave the players a chance to act on their smarts. Excellent set of observations. Seems to me that it would be good to leave some clues around to indicate there might be a dangerous creature nearby, e.g. a gnawed femur or pelvis, or signs that there's a tomb nearby, or a barrow - as in "barrow-wight", yes? I suppose you could build a dungeon where things just randomly happen, but that seems almost too chaotic, especially given what you've noted here.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 6, 2021 14:32:44 GMT -6
There are few monster-driven effects players will fear more. If they just wade into melee expecting an easy win... they might learn something. On the other hand, I've seen players get sore about level loss, despite poor tactics. Some feel it's unfair and complain, which can detract from play. So you need to balance it against player maturity as well. That's part of the difference between modern and old school play styles, isn't it? Not the only explanation for hard feelings, but if players don't understand what "risk" actually means in an old school context, it can be very jarring to them.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 3, 2021 13:23:22 GMT -6
My preferred system now? Roll 3d6 in order, then take a 7th roll, which may be assigned, at the player's discretion, to replace one of the original six rolls (doesn't have to be the lowest). If the total of all characteristics is 54 or less, start over. I like this one, when the 7th roll is the roll for Gold. The swap then forces a hard choice on the player at the beginning; e.g., my fighter can swap out his 7 Dexterity for 16, but at the expense (pun intended) of affording Plate Mail. Ohh, that's evil. I might use that!
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 3, 2021 10:22:25 GMT -6
There is a deeper issue here, though: the original concept of "rolling up a character" meant "I am going to make some random rolls, with a predetermined order, and then use my creativity to devise what this character might be". That's different from "I am going to make some random rolls, then assign them to characteristics, to create a character I may already have in mind". Not that one is better than the other, but they are different from each other. The "roll dice, then assign them" moves closer to a stat array, or point buy, or make it all up. Conceptually, I like the challenge of rolling dice in order, and then seeing what I can make of that character - but I also like the Classic Traveller character generation system, in which you can die (go figure). My preferred system now? Roll 3d6 in order, then take a 7th roll, which may be assigned, at the player's discretion, to replace one of the original six rolls (doesn't have to be the lowest). If the total of all characteristics is 54 or less, start over. By the way, if you haven't used anydice.com, I very much recommend doing so. It's quite useful for understanding and visualizing the practical statistics of all of this.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 1, 2021 18:24:53 GMT -6
Sounds like a Golden Age in Mnpls. Sorry I missed it. The only place I recognise from my college years there is Dreamhaven -- FWIR, a big used-book store. In my time there (late '92-late 2000, Dinkytown and later Seward) I wasn't aware of any wargaming or hobby-related stores and never once met anyone who claimed to be into wargaming or RPGs. I do very much miss Minneapolis though. Very sad I had to leave (due to lack of jobs). Uncle Hugo's moved from Franklin Av. and 3rd Avenue, just east of Nicollet, to 29th Street and Chicago Avenue, sometime in the 1980's IIRC. (It was the victim of arson by white supremacist rioters last year, in the aftermath of George Floyd getting murdered.) Dreamhaven is still at 38th Street and 23rd Ave, in south Minneapolis. The Source Comics and Games is in Roseville, and is one of the larger game stores I have ever been in.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 1, 2021 18:19:49 GMT -6
How is the hobby understood in the US? Is miniature use "a norm" on US? What about Vancian Magic, is it widely understood? There are places where people understand "RPG concepts" distinctly as well? (Like differences in style of play between Twin Cities vs Lake Geneva vs ??) Edit: Another thing that I just remembered, "Dungeon Crawling" and "Hex Crawling" always was something rare in Brazil. People used to play simple "novel" adventures, even though my fist RPG was Basic D&D, I didn't got to know the Dungeon Crawling and Hex Crawling concepts until some years ago. Dungeons for us was only a couple of rooms, and not Mega Dungeons. In the Twin Cities and here in Madison, WI (a short driving distance to Lake Geneva, WI), there are multiple different styles of gaming. Miniatures vs. no miniatures, you can find both and everything in between. Gaming is considered relatively ordinary here - there is an excellent game store in Fond du Lac, WI, a town of maybe 15,000 people, for example. Madison has something close to ten game stores for a metropolitan area of about 350,000 people. Vancian magic is both understood and misunderstood as a concept; it depends on who you are talking to.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 1, 2021 16:57:47 GMT -6
I grew up in the Twin Cities during the 1970's - I was in junior high school and high school from 1974 to 1980. During that time, we had: - The Little Tin Soldier Shop - a wargames store on a busy commercial street in south Minneapolis
- Uncle Hugo's Science Fiction Bookstore - closer to downtown
- The Green Enchanter - another science fiction bookstore, by the University of Minnesota campus (the predecessor to Dreamhaven Books
- Other game stores and book stores opening in the area, as well
- Several wargames and roleplaying clubs across Minneapolis and St. Paul. including student groups at colleges and universities
- Minicon, an annual science fiction convention getting several hundred attendees each year
- Minnesota Campaign, a regular gaming convention, first in Rochester, then in St. Paul
...so there was no lack of gaming and reading fantasy and science fiction. There was also the Society for Creative Anachronism, and the Minnesota Renaissance Festival, and... and... Never had to worry about finding a book or a game, or people to game with. Didn't really realize how lucky I was.
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 1, 2021 5:41:50 GMT -6
Having them have to study before you can even play as a barbarian is what I thinks keeps people from wanting to play. Jump in. make mistakes, learn from them. In general I agree, but I was specifically asked "what can I do to get ready" so I figured if I can find a short story or two, maybe 15-30 minutes reading and say, "This is a lot different from most fantasy, so if you haven't read this you could if you want to get a feel. It's not required, but since you asked that's my best suggestion." Given what you asked for, if I were you, I *might* provide them with the first four chapters of The Man of Gold, right up to the nighttime discussion between the Prior and Kurrune, the messenger. But stop at the end of that chapter. It's very much a "scene-setter" for the rest of the book, and it evokes the feel of Tekumel pretty well. (Edited to be specific about how much of Man of Gold to provide to players)
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 1, 2021 5:36:49 GMT -6
One of the great advantages of the "fresh off the boat" scenario is that it recognizes that everyone is starting off ignorant about Tekumel - characters, players, referee. You can take advantage of that and later explain any "mistakes" as the perspective of Southern Barbarians unused to Tsolyani society. But a key element here is that everybody's trying to get acculturated - start off with weird names that can get exchanged later for proper Tsolyani ones, find a temple to join, and eventually join a clan, and lose that accent. Also, in the beginning, the PCs are the hirelings - that's what Sec. 1110 is all about. That section is precisely analogous to the Patron table in Classic Traveller: give them someone who can assist them, eventually becoming an ally, if they don't screw things up.
You could listen to the Hall of Blue Illumination podcast, where James Maliszewski and I talk about this stuff. But starting with a careful read of EPT and taking notes is a great way to begin a campaign.
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 31, 2021 16:54:38 GMT -6
Well, three years late. *sigh* Dave Sutherland was a really kind and decent guy. He seemed to have gotten overwhelmed, I think, but the various pressures in his life - but that's a different story. As far as Empire of the Petal Throne was concerned, Dave got Tekumel, and Prof. Barker recognized that. I played in Dave's EPT game at GenCon one year (it was at UW-Parkside), and he had a fascinating approach to mapping: He laid the map out on the table, and then had a sheet of black cardstock with a circular hole cut in the middle, about 3-4 inches across. The circle had crosshairs, made from two lengths of wire, IIRC. The party traveled around the map, and we could see where we were based on the crosshairs. It gave up SOME idea of where we were, but not a lot more than that - and you still had to map, if you wanted to get the bigger picture. It was an elegant way to move things along in a convention setting, but I think Dave said he used it for his own campaign.
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Post by badger2305 on Nov 17, 2018 12:25:00 GMT -6
I'll admit to being puzzled by this release. An incomplete system, considered a bit old-fashioned even when it was first released and never a big success. Is there a demand for it? Can't really see it advancing participation in Tékumel gaming in any meaningful way. When they released the sourcebook it made sense - it's the essential core of Tékumel knowledge - but then again the version they released was an uncorrected copy of the Gamescience edition, without the missing text restored. It pains me to say, but even as a fan I'm thoroughly underwhelmed with the way Tékumel is being handled at the moment. I get that, and it's important to remember that the Foundation is a tiny, non-profit group being run by volunteers with almost no budget. As far as this release, I imagine they released this second volume as a natural follow-up to the first volume. And not that I'm trying to convince anyone to actually spend their money, but there's another whole level of Tekumel to be found in those rules, wrapped around them, spreading off beyond them. But that's just my two kaitars... Actually, don't be too quick to dismiss the Player's Handbook. There is a HUGE, no, let me say this again HUGE amount of material in the Player's Handbook that can help any Tekumel campaign, regardless of rules set. From the spell corpora, to the list of poisons, to the details about clan status and when player characters get married, there is a lot there. But I will freely admit that the table for damage done to player characters by falling siege machine projectile is, well, overkill.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 27, 2017 18:04:24 GMT -6
Interesting find, Jeff! Here's the relevant quotation: I wonder if they're the same maps that rjkuntz played through in DCSIII's EPT campaign? I wonder if Victor badger2305 has any further context that he can add? Allan. I'll have to take a look at this to see. Allan, if you have a PDF to share with me, I might be able to shed some light on this.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 27, 2013 22:07:10 GMT -6
This is one of the rpg projects that I feel most excited about! I assume that most (or perhaps all) work is done without pay and in peoples spare time so I understand it will take as long time as it takes. But I'd like to express some friendly interest with a quople of questions, if anyone has insight in these matters. What kind of release is planned? Pdf, print or both? Illustrations? Color or black and white? What kind of material will it contain? Maps? Locations? New monsters? Factions and politics? Will there be stats for any specific rules system(s)? Do you have any idea of when it could be available? 2014? 15? Let me see. Here is how the Foundation plans to release the Jakallan Underworld: - A PDF version, similar to the "Mimeo EPT" - facsimile on the left page, text reproduction on the right
- A POD version, which will include the facsimile text and some supplementary material, based on Prof. Barker's notes and player recollections
- A PDF release of the maps, including the 17 x 22 1st level and the 8.5 x 11 2nd and 3rd levels. We hope to have a reproduction of the original maps themselves, along with a full-color more modern version
- A POD version of the maps, as per the PDF version - we're still investigating the best and most cost-effective way to release them
There will be maps (obviously), along with Prof. Barker's key. There are certainly new miscellaneous magical items, as well as various factions connected to different locations. Since this is a facsimile edition, all stats will be for Empire of the Petal Throne. We're transcribing the key right now, and assessing the best way to capture the original maps. I've been asked for release dates in the past, and have been reluctant to promise anything. What I can say is that it is moving along, now that we've figured out how to deal with the slowly-deteriorating computer disks the Professor had many, many of (that was our summer project).
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 10, 2012 23:05:49 GMT -6
What I do is fairly simple. Players get to roll 3d6 in order for six stats. Then they get a seventh roll, which may be used to substitute for one of the six. Doesn't mess with the distribution, but it does remedy a really bad roll for one stat.
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Post by badger2305 on Feb 22, 2012 14:51:26 GMT -6
Victor, do you know the answers to these two questions? 1. Who made the changes? Prof. Barker, or the people at TSR? 2. Did Prof. Barker consider the 1975 rulebook an improvement over the 1974 rulebook, or did he look at the 1975 rulebook as an unfortunate concession to the desires of TSR? Regardless of the answers, I'm going to buy the POD when it is released. ;D Well, the answer to both questions is mixed. For the first one, Phil made a number of changes, and it appears that Gary and/or other people at TSR re-arranged the text to more closely conform to the structure of Original D&D. As for the second question, Phil was pleased with the TSR version, but I have no idea if whether or not he thought of it as an "improvement" - I think he was just happy to see it in print. Sorry to not be more clear about it all!
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Post by badger2305 on Feb 22, 2012 8:15:26 GMT -6
I'm currently really busy, but I am hoping to return to this relatively soon.
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Post by badger2305 on Feb 22, 2012 8:13:46 GMT -6
It's nice to know that people like this.
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Post by badger2305 on Feb 22, 2012 8:11:20 GMT -6
Regarding the recent release of the original manuscript of EPT: The Spring 1974 date goes back to when Prof. Barker prepared the game. Michael Mornard enrolled as a freshman at the University of Minnesota in Fall term 1973; shortly thereafter he began playing in Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign and was introduced to Prof. Barker. Our current estimate, based on what Prof. Barker has told us, was that the original manuscript for EPT was produced in early 1974, and the initial game session was sometime during the Spring or possibly early summer. There is a copy that's dated to August 1974, but that does NOT mean that that was when the first game took place. (There is apparently some disagreement amongst Phil's first EPT players as to when it happened.)
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 9, 2011 23:00:48 GMT -6
Octavia looks around as the light wanes, and says, "Let's find a defensible position near the crossroads, but off the trail. We need to know what's around us." She moves towards the nearest likely location.
Once everyone has stopped, she looks towards Meat and Poke. "Keep watch as I bind Roger's wound."
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 9, 2011 22:57:21 GMT -6
Midterms.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 5, 2011 11:14:58 GMT -6
Octavia pauses and looks around carefully. "Meat, Poke, Roger - going forward runs the risk of getting lost. Yet I do not think it's wise to remain where that metal monster came from."
She looks around in the area a short distance away from where the battle took place. "I agree with Roger. I think we ought to make camp a short distance away, and set a watch until morning. Roger can take the first watch; I will take 2nd watch, and then Meat and Poke. Make sure to have two torches lit, as well as a campfire."
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 3, 2011 20:55:06 GMT -6
The more I think about this, the more I realize that my last post ought to have been broken into two different observations:
There are no non-player characters on Tekumel. There is a real social hierarchy in Empire of the Petal Throne - the story of General Kettukal reinforces this, for example, through the very real adage of doing as the Emperor commands. Some people will be below you, and some at your level, and some above you. Be ready to deal with that. As a referee, be ready to remind people of this.
-and-
Social connections are a resource, not a drag. Part of the deeper attraction of Tekumel is the development of connections between player-characters and other characters, be they patrons, henchmen, colleagues, servants, or something else altogether. This is different from D&D, where "party loyalty" is often the boundary line for such things. As a referee, be ready to provide opportunities to build these connections - and use them as hooks for further adventures.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 3, 2011 6:31:03 GMT -6
I also am confused on how the Mrur and Mottan can reach each other. (At the risk of being dead, I thought Kogush was the logical target of the attack and that Mottan is far out of range.) = Ah, but somebody had to be leading the way. I know I asked each of you for your intention, but I probably should have made it clear that Mottan did the noble thing and was at the front of the line.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 3, 2011 6:29:27 GMT -6
Hello Badger, I wonder if you would mind explaining the combat outcome for my education? Did Mrur #2 roll two six sided dice for damage and scored 6s on both... or did it roll a single die and score a 6, which was then doubled? The latter. Which I now realize is a borrow from D&D, rather than the rule in EPT, which is to double the number of dice rolled. We'll follow the EPT system from now on.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 3, 2011 0:21:10 GMT -6
Round One:
Initiative. Party=1, Monsters=6; Monsters attack first.
Mrur #1 in back = 15; Kimesh is hit; taking 6 points of damage. Mrur #2 in front = 20; 2nd roll 2. Mottan is critically hit, taking 12 points of damage.
Kimesh = 7; a miss. Mottan = 18; does 9 points of damage to his Mrur.
If Kimesh has taken more damage than he has hit points, there is a possibility of healing him before he completely expires. There are other Mrur past the two that immediately attack.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 3, 2011 0:16:29 GMT -6
There is only space for one person - or monster - to fight. Worse, the Mrur further up the stairs take advantage of their higher position to plunge a spear directly down onto Mottan. There is a sudden spray of blood as the spearpoint evidently penetrates the young nobleman's armor. Nevertheless, Mottan grimly strikes back, shearing right through the exposed spine of the undead, which then collapses on the staircase.
In the rear, despite readying himself, Kimesh is struck by an axe. The blade bites deeply, and Kimesh's return blow misses utterly. There is not enough room for any of the rest of the party to respond to the savage onslaught - the stairs are simply too narrow.
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 3, 2011 0:06:52 GMT -6
Alright. Here's what I have: a single-file marching order up the staircase. Mottan Kogush Batikan Jaru (torchbearer) Nyara Kemul (torchbearer) Kimesh
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 2, 2011 20:29:23 GMT -6
The implications of this are straightforward, but may be unsettling to players used to the "open frontier" of D&D. I see this as an impetus that would drive the player characters to want to explore Jakalla's (or any other city's) underworld as a way of escaping the normal oppressions of society on Tekumel. Absolutely. In fact, a good deal of adventuring on Tekumel can be summarized as, "how do I do what I want while at the same time satisfying my social obligations?" This might seem somewhat onerous as an expectation, but I would submit that it is highly satisfying to accomplish both. As Prof. Barker notes in The Dragon #9:
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Post by badger2305 on Oct 1, 2011 11:23:26 GMT -6
Apologies. I ended up misplacing my notes about this corner of my campaign. I just found them, so we can continue. However, I have a lot to do this afternoon, and will have a new post by tomorrow.
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