The Function of Alignment Language

[dicebro]

In my OD&D campaign, there are only 3 alignments.  The alignment languages (“AL” herein) are primarily used to command armies of various political tribes, each with their own local language or dialect. The ALs are for use in battle. Thus, an AL is limited to short, vocal commands, drum beats, horn blasts, and nonverbal signals. AL are also limited in scope to military topics. Thus, there is no Lawful poetry for example.

There can be a Neutral AL, perhaps more than one, because there are militarized forces that don’t align with Law or Chaos. 

Note this describes my own campaign. How do you do it?

[captainjapan]

I give a modifier to the reaction roll, to enlist hero-type monsters, if a player should want to try and guess what a monster's alignment language is.

+3 bonus if they get it right (and have someone in the party who can speak it, obviously)

instant attack if they don't.

[paleologos]

Most recently, my thoughts on alignment languages are that they were not a bad idea for a 3-axis system, started to break down with a 5-pronged system, and are not really usable with a 9-point grid.

I think they work best in a Law vs Chaos campaign, as common languages for the forces of Law and Chaos, respectively. Camp Latin works well for Law, as used by Roman armies. The Black Speech works for Chaos.

Neutrals don't need a language in a Poul Anderson "Neutral means unaligned" (the "Swiss" model) but could have a language in a Michael Moorcock "Neutral means cosmic balance" sense.

[ThrorII]

In OD&D, B/X, and BECMI, there are 3 alignments (L, C, and N). Each Alignment has its own language. BTB B/X and BECMI (can't remember in OD&D), you forget your old language if your alignment changes.

I view this as your Alignment Language is a mystical and magical language instilled upon all sentient races upon reaching maturity, based on their ethos, by the forces (gods, immortals, etc.) of Law, Chaos, and Neutrality. It is not a full language, but allows rudementary communication between all who hold that alignment.

In my campaign, there is a 'Church of Law' and a 'Temple of Chaos', with a Zoroastrian theology battling it using the campaign world like pieces on a chessboard.

[howandwhy99]

My current understanding is Alignment Language is conformity of a creature's personal expression to alignment. This is what actually defines what Alignment is. All behavior, thought, and speech are covered under alignment as expression.

This is really only the three alignment system. Lawful, neutral, and chaotic. Protection against good or evil differs depending upon one's alignment. Your alignment determines what counts as ill intent or benevolent.

There may be some cosmic Outer Planer speech which corresponds, but this is the exception, not the rule.

[doublejig2]

I have alignment languages as a matter of various milieu ethos and nuanced enough for basic communication among their speakers...

[cometaryorbit]

Aug 28, 2020 21:13:44 GMT -6 paleologos said:

Most recently, my thoughts on alignment languages are that they were not a bad idea for a 3-axis system, started to break down with a 5-pronged system, and are not really usable with a 9-point grid.

I agree, they work best with just the original Law/Neutrality/Chaos alignments.

They could either be something like a common religious language that crosses political boundaries (rather like Latin in the Middle Ages), in which case there would be one language for each alignment in the campaign area but a different continent might have different ones.

Or they could be more metaphysical 'angelic language' type things which were truly universal and tied to the fundamentals of the alignment, so anyone meditating on Law/Neutrality/Chaos anywhere would discover the same words.

[blackwyvern]

I view them as gifts from the alignment powers. These powers are shapeless cosmic entities beyond the understanding even of the deities. I generally use fairly weak deities more on the line of demigods all statted out and slayable. The languages themselves are gifts given to the faithful to allow them to communicate basic ideas and concepts. They are used for trade, negotiations and war. I found once I really embraced ALs my players were giving eloquent speeches to NPCs so I developed a list of 250 words. I told them during the campaign they could add 50 more. Any use of ALs could only include those words. I don't know if it would work on a traditional table top game but I am stuck playing PbP and it has added some flavor the the players say they appreciate.

I have always included ALs but only in my last couple of games have I really encouraged their use. In my campaign Law and Chaos are on "kill them all and ask questions later" relations. All intelligent creatures can identify what alignment language is being spoken. Law and Chaos generally react violently to hearing the opposing language uttered. When Neutrals are involved their use strains reaction rolls. Even online you can feel the tension when characters have to resort to using them to communicate not knowing what the result is going to be. I should note I don't use standard D&D monsters for the most part so players almost never know what they are trying to talk to.

[hamurai]

For me, Alignment Languages are very abstract and not really a true language at all.

I use alignment as a sort of renown - people who know the character know how he/she behaved in the past. The alignment language is a common way of expressing yourself, a set of alignment-specific words and phrases, and body language.

So, when two characters of the same alignment meet, even when they cannot understand each other by default, they can communicate certain concepts and know that the other is of the same alignment. Overly complex communication is not possible, though.

[Porphyre]

LANGUAGES: The "common tongue" spoken throughout the "continent" is
 known by most humans. All other creatures and monsters which can speak have
 their own language, although some (20%) also know the common one. Law, Chaos
 and Neutrality also have common languages spoken by each respectively. One
 can attempt to communicate through the common tongue, language particular to a
 creature class, or one of the divisional languages (law, etc.).

Men&Magic p12

To me, Alignment languages are the equivalent of the human "Common tongue" for monsters. 

[aldarron]

Yeah, the Alignment languages were sort of military languages so you could communicate with people on your "side", regardless of their native tongue. Arneson had a rule that Neutral was basically Common or like a trade language people on different sides could (potentially) speak to communicate with the enemy or what have you.

[Malchor]

Aug 28, 2020 21:13:44 GMT -6 paleologos said:

Most recently, my thoughts on alignment languages are that they were not a bad idea for a 3-axis system, started to break down with a 5-pronged system, and are not really usable with a 9-point grid.

I think they work best in a Law vs Chaos campaign, as common languages for the forces of Law and Chaos, respectively. Camp Latin works well for Law, as used by Roman armies. The Black Speech works for Chaos.

Neutrals don't need a language in a Poul Anderson "Neutral means unaligned" (the "Swiss" model) but could have a language in a Michael Moorcock "Neutral means cosmic balance" sense.

Just hit upon the same thinkings, did a search and boom.

The one part missing that universal common needs to go to help give the alignment languages more weight.

[Malchor]

Sept 6, 2020 8:04:08 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Yeah, the Alignment languages were sort of military languages so you could communicate with people on your "side", regardless of their native tongue. Arneson had a rule that Neutral was basically Common or like a trade language people on different sides could (potentially) speak to communicate with the enemy or what have you.

Hmm... I was thinking alignment languages start to make more sense if:
• Common is not a thing
• Creatures of Law speak a common language of Law
* Creatures of Chaos of a common language of Chaos
* Neutral is the neutrality, which sides with neither and neutral creatures speak their own languages


And then saw this post and it does rationalize Neutral as a common trade language. Full circles in 5 minutes! 

[clownboss]

They're just languages and have their own slang and curses in their vocabulary just like any other language. Common is the language of the Human society. Lawful is a holy language similar to Latin, Chaotic is Black Speech from Mordor. The Netural language I imagine as a cant language similar to Polari, nominally it should be similar to Common, but it's been changed with so many euphemisms and codewords, many of which take from archaic and druidic traditions. Certain monster languages like Orcish and Goblin are branches of Black Speech, but are mutually unintelligible.

[muddy]

Aug 28, 2020 21:13:44 GMT -6 paleologos said:

Most recently, my thoughts on alignment languages are that they were not a bad idea for a 3-axis system, started to break down with a 5-pronged system, and are not really usable with a 9-point grid.

I think they work best in a Law vs Chaos campaign, as common languages for the forces of Law and Chaos, respectively. Camp Latin works well for Law, as used by Roman armies. The Black Speech works for Chaos.

Neutrals don't need a language in a Poul Anderson "Neutral means unaligned" (the "Swiss" model) but could have a language in a Michael Moorcock "Neutral means cosmic balance" sense.

You can graft that way of looking at them onto a more complex alignment grids - law vs chaos as a cosmic battle, with each side having some means of communicating, and no special languages for other alignments.

I've always seen them as something less than full blown languages, similar to thieves cant.

[Porphyre]

If I remember a post from Gronan; it was possible, with high enough INT, to learn other Alignement Languages.
This, imho, helps considering these as "just another speech" rather than some sort of mystical weird morality tongue accessible only to the faithful.

Like the part when Gandalf quotes the Ring's inscription during the Council of Elrond. No-one likes the sound of the Black Speech, but they can understand it.

[cometaryorbit]

Mar 1, 2021 15:00:51 GMT -6 Porphyre said:

Like the part when Gandalf quotes the Ring's inscription during the Council of Elrond. No-one likes the sound of the Black Speech, but they can understand it.

Yes, I think that is a very good model.

I don't know that it rules out the somewhat more metaphysical aspect, if one wanted to go that way, though - the Black Speech was created by Sauron (a supernatural demonic power) intentionally, not a "normally evolved" language from a community of speakers.

[Porphyre]

In the same vein: note that in Men&Magic, Orcs appear both in the "Neutrality" and "Chaos" columns. Thus, we can surmise that there is some "neutral-speaking" Orcs and some "Chaos-speakers". The equivalent in Tolkien's Middle Earth, would be the same difference between the "freelance" Orcs of the Misty Mountains (neutral and speaking some form of the Common tongue) and the enregimented Orcs of Mordor, who have to learn and understand the Black Speech.

[dicebro]

I have ultimately decided to divide my campaign world into two camps: Law & Chaos. They are at war. Each side has a militarized form of communication: hand signals, words & phrases, horn blasts, flag markings, runes & drum beats. These are used primarily to order armies around on the field of battle. Neutral doesn’t have a “language”.

[werdna]

The way I've started to consider handling it is essentially keeping a 9 point AD&D system, but focusing primarily on the law-chaos axis, good and evil being mostly characters' methods/morality and completely secondary to that conflict.

Alignment languages, if I were to use them, would be Chaos, Balance(Neutral), and Law only. These would be the speech and runes of the outer planes (perhaps split into dialects based on individual planes for their denizens at most).

In reality, most human would be neutrals in the cosmic war of Law and Chaos, so only characters specifically dedicated to being servants of Law, Chaos, or the Balance would know bits of the relevant alignment tongue. A tyrant who unconsciously serves Law has no reason to suddenly comprehend a celestial tongue.

[sixdemonbag]

I really don't bother with alignment languages. But, in the spirit of the thread, if your INT is above 12, then you can communicate with most common monsters. Otherwise, you speak common. If your INT is below 9, you're functionally illiterate.

[badger2305]

Reminds me of "Army Slavic" in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Slavic

[dicebro]

Alignment languages would be a useful way to capture a spy. I recall a scene in the Kubrick movie “Eyes Wide Shut” where the Lord of the manor house tests Dr. Bill with his knowledge of the password.

[vasious]

Sept 6, 2020 6:30:02 GMT -6 Porphyre said:

LANGUAGES: The "common tongue" spoken throughout the "continent" is
 known by most humans. All other creatures and monsters which can speak have
 their own language, although some (20%) also know the common one. Law, Chaos
 and Neutrality also have common languages spoken by each respectively. One
 can attempt to communicate through the common tongue, language particular to a
 creature class, or one of the divisional languages (law, etc.).

Men&Magic p12

To me, Alignment languages are the equivalent of the human "Common tongue" for monsters. 

That is a very interesting interpretation... The kind one wants to borrow/steal

[Deleted]

I always saw them as a more generalized version of Thieves' Cant or Druid speak. Like a faction pidgin or conlang. Because it's used by such a diverse group of creatures, however, with very different cultures and even physiologies, I imagine it must be quite limited in its ability to convey concepts. I don't imagine, for instance, a Balrog and Troll will get into a deep philosophical debate about the nature of life and death speaking Chaos. They might express simple directions and descriptions with it, however. "Dwarfs went west on horseback" maybe. Something very simple and direct.

[cometaryorbit]

Jun 11, 2021 17:47:02 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

Because it's used by such a diverse group of creatures, however, with very different cultures and even physiologies, I imagine it must be quite limited in its ability to convey concepts.

That's how they're described in the AD&D DMG, and certainly I'd think that would be the result if they were more or less "natural" languages that are only culturally/historically associated with Law and Chaos (a Latin-style language of a former Empire of Law, for example).

If one sees it as a metaphysical "angelic language" type thing, though, I think it might be "universal" and unaffected by cultural/biological differences.

[thegreyelf]

One good way to understand the concept of alignment language is, historically, in Ancient Rome, many mystery cults (including Christians) had ways to identify each other. The most famous of these is the Christian fish that today you see on bumper stickers. It shouldn't necessarily be a detailed language, but a series of words and symbols that followers of a given ethos can use to identify each other. This assumes, however, that there is a concrete ethos and organization behind the aligments in your game. There is a Law "group" or "organization" that uses these symbols to identify each other in the ongoing conflict with the forces of chaos. Indeed, D&D indicates that alignment language is limited to discussing aspects of the ethos.

If, on the other hand, these groups ARE organized societies, there's no reason they couldn't have equally complex communications. Just as druids have the druidic language and thieves have cant, so could law, chaos, and neutrality have their own languages. i've always just read it as the way in Elric, law, chaos, and neutrality are tangible forces actively at war in the world. They are, in a very real way, churches unto themselves. It seems to me that's the root of the D&D alignment system anyway.

[Deleted]

I had considered they may be more fully fleshed out, functional languages like Druidic, but then I imagine a Pegasus or a Unicorn trying to communicate, and the best I could imagine would be them pawing symbols into the dirt with their hoofs, or clomping in a particular pattern, like morse code.

[dicebro]

Jul 5, 2021 12:42:42 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

I had considered they may be more fully fleshed out, functional languages like Druidic, but then I imagine a Pegasus or a Unicorn trying to communicate, and the best I could imagine would be them pawing symbols into the dirt with their hoofs, or clomping in a particular pattern, like morse code.

Yeah well, they talk you know…just like freaking Blink Dogs.  They say…”Niiieee Heee Heeey Hoow Aaare Yooouuuu?”

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2021 16:30:36 GMT -6 dicebro said:

Jul 5, 2021 12:42:42 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

I had considered they may be more fully fleshed out, functional languages like Druidic, but then I imagine a Pegasus or a Unicorn trying to communicate, and the best I could imagine would be them pawing symbols into the dirt with their hoofs, or clomping in a particular pattern, like morse code.

Yeah well, they talk you know…just like freaking Blink Dogs.  They say…”Niiieee Heee Heeey Hoow Aaare Yooouuuu?”

Do they ever mention a fellow named Wilbur? Or talk about how they'd get stuck on roof tops when employed by a Witcher?