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Post by badger2305 on Mar 31, 2008 15:44:19 GMT -6
"Aha!" I hear you say, "but the player will know the difficulty of the task by the number of the dice they are supposed to roll, and will try to find some way to avoid failure!" I think it's perfectly fine for players to understand the risk of what they plan to visit upon their characters, and taking steps to lower that risk is excellent play. Sometimes, even well-detailed verbal, textual and graphic descriptions and images fall short of conveying what a situation is "really" like without "actually being there". Oh, DEFINITE agreement about everything you've said. But giving lots of descriptive clues about what's going on and working through stuff that way is not a problem, as I see it. What I was objecting to was the problem of letting the game mechanic (in this case, the number of dice) stand in for that entirely useful description and back and forth. I'm objecting to rules standing in for real description.
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 31, 2008 9:59:44 GMT -6
Going back to an earlier part of the discussion, I just came up with a way to allow for players to attempt to do things, using a simple stat-check system. Here goes: uncertain tasks may be resolved by rolling a number of D6s against a specified character stat, the number of dice increasing relative to the difficulty of the task. "Aha!" I hear you say, "but the player will know the difficulty of the task by the number of the dice they are supposed to roll, and will try to find some way to avoid failure!" You're right. Have the player roll 3d6 all the time - and the referee rolls the rest, behind the screen. The difficulty rating would look like this: - Easy (but still uncertain) task: player rolls 3d6, referee rolls 1d6 and subtracts the result from the player's roll. Compare against selected stat - under the stat = success.
- Average difficulty: player rolls 3d6
- Hard: player rolls 3d6, referee rolls 1d6 and adds that to the player's roll.
- Very hard: player rolls 3d6, referee rolls 2d6 and adds that to the player's roll
- Impossible: player rolls 3d6, referee rolls 3d6 and adds that to the player's roll.
In all cases, the referee needs to do two things. They must roll several dice, but only count some of them, and they must interpret the result of both dice rolls taken together. So if the player's roll would indicate success (or failure), but the ref's roll pushes it the other way, then the referee needs to explain the fickle finger of fate, despite heroic effort. The nice thing about this system is that it preserves uncertainty, while giving the player some control through their own dice rolling. It also should run very, very fast and not disrupt the flow of the game. Reactions? Obvious holes I've missed?
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 30, 2008 10:29:57 GMT -6
I would be willing to say that in essence the concept of the "feats" is not something that every old school gamer would be opposed to, my complaint with them (as they are presented in 3/3.5/3.75/4 edition) is that they aren't heroic abilities, they are really more like super skills and everyone has the same ones. If I were going to introduce a concept of heroic traits/abilities into the game then I would not present any sort of choices at all, instead I would tell the player to describe to me a heroic (or anti-heroic, if playing the "dark" side) trait that they think their character has developed over during the campaign and then I would work with them to adjudicate the mechanics of that ability (eg Derick the Dwarf seems to always use his crossbow in combat, The DM and the player decide that Derick will be +1 to hit and damage with his crossbow and if he spends 1 round aiming [giving up his attack that round] he will be +2 instead of +1; Shandar the Cleric has had great luck hiring Men at Arms, talking with people, etc. he is in fact so golden tongued that reaction rolls to him anyone with him are at an additional +2 and all of his hirings gain an additional +2 to their loyalty base, etc.). YMMV I like this idea very much. Have an exalt for that!
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 30, 2008 9:37:39 GMT -6
I've been toying around with the idea of "Heoric Traits" and "Super-Heroic Traits". Kind of "feat-like" abilities you gain at levels 4 and 8, choosen from a small pool of options. Do you have to make them class specific? Just a thought.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 23, 2007 13:51:28 GMT -6
Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam - WONDERFUL SPAM, wonderful spam!
("but I don't like spam!")
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 10, 2007 20:50:48 GMT -6
Well, in the spirit of an unforgettable adventure, you might make the adventure focused on things where mechanics don't really matter, but careful thinking does. To keep it in the style of older games, a quest (or even a geas) might do the job - but that's a little heavy-handed.
One truly strange idea would be to sort out the endings cards from Once Upon a Time, and then draw some cards at random to see what elements need to be put in place for that ending. I'm thinking of this as a kind of subconscious stimulation for your own creativity. (Heck, you could make it an adventure centered on a Deck of Many Things - but that's been done before, too. Hmmm.)
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 10, 2007 12:11:59 GMT -6
Well, just tell them that it would be a good idea to play OD&D because, as gamers, they should have an appreciation of where their hobby came from and give them a sense of history. If not for the little brown books, they wouldn't have their bright, shiny 3.5. You could always just ask them to try it for one adventure, just so they can actually say "yeah, I played the original game." Thus gaining some serious geek cred This usually works, in my experience. Though some players cannot seem to get out of the mindset that OD&D = Basic D&D = "kid's game" (sigh) THAT rocks!
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 8, 2007 7:56:14 GMT -6
It's a nice idea, not unlike the eaglestone.pocketempires.com/imtu.html or Traveller Geek Code. Because I have lots of house rules, I'm more inclined to put together a supplement to the original booklets, and let things go from there. But I like the idea of a check list.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 8, 2007 13:40:56 GMT -6
I would definitely agree. One of my biggest hurdles for gaming was "When do I have the time?" Thing was, I did have the time, I just hadn't realized it. I found I was still in the "all-day Saturday epic crawl" mindset leftover from high-school and college. I found I needed to schedule my gaming like an adult and not a teenager. That meant short sessions (3-4 hours) on a weeknight, because any of you that are married know that you often require the weekend for family and life in general. This means less "oh I have to cancel this week" and more " So, you're in the well-room. You smell a rank odor as a slimy tentacle reaches out for you from the darkness...". It also meant finding a game that I could get around quickly without a lot of bookwork. OD&D can fit that role perfectly, if you let it. Once you have your initial dungeon set up, you can let it have a life of it's own and it will only require minor maintenance now and again. Now, because my gaming schedule fits into my life as it is now, I'm getting faaaar more gaming done than I ever did as a teenager. (nods) That's true for me as well. I find it is a lot easier to plan an evening for gaming than to take ALL DAY SATURDAY for gaming. Conceivably, I could make a Saturday afternoon free on a regular basis - but there's a lot competing for that time. That having been said, I have fond memories of spending Tuesday evenings at the U of MN student union gaming quite happily. Because it was not at home, and had a closing time, there was a definite end to each session, and without all of the other distractions that can be found in any home. YMMV, of course.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 7, 2007 11:04:42 GMT -6
It will seem a lot less weird if you find yourself with a family and a 40+ hour a week job (provided, of course, that those things take precedence over gaming, as they should). I just have the job and that alone has limited my freetime severely. If you lump in my responsibilites as a supporter of various non-profit groups, daily chores, and bank account balancing -- I have just enough time to watch a movie once or twice a week (if I'm lucky). I hear what you're saying, but that's not exactly what I'm getting at. I'm in a PhD program, in a long-term relationship, and volunteer myself for two different non-profits as a member of the board of directors, so I'm not speaking from a position of a lot of free time, myself. And I understand that having enough free time can be an issue. People in similar positions to you find ways to have a regular "poker night" or watch football on Sunday afternoons, so making the time isn't the issue, or so it seems to me. Even so, making enough time available is an issue to be dealt with on a personal level. What I'm talking about more so than that is the difficulty that some people seem to encounter in finding other players, once that free time is shaken loose. That's what seems odd to me. A little patience and a bit of work ought to result in fellow gamers being found, or so it seems to me.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 7, 2007 8:06:47 GMT -6
If you have a local con or game gathering, run events for OD&D and see who you get. This can be a great way to "try out" players to see if you like them well enough to want to be in a group with them. My current group sat in on two or three of my local con games until we all just finally started to game together on a regular basis. That's a good way to do things. And if you don't have a local con, then consider starting one. It can be simple - a one day event, charge a minimal amount to cover your expenses, and get a bunch of GMs to sign up with their event in advance and use that to advertise. And if not at your local library, your local community college, college, or university. Forming a student club to get rooms is a proven way to set up a club. And make sure you advertise - you will always want to bring in new players. Yup. These are all good. They all require a little effort, but as long as you make sure to use the "reporter's W's" - who, what, when, where, how, and why - in your promotional materials, you should be good. Thanks! What other successes have people had?
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 6, 2007 21:05:20 GMT -6
For some time now, I've heard people say in various places and in various ways, something like this: "I used to have a great gaming group in college and now I can't find any players." (This is sometimes accompanied with sighs and groans.)
This seems weird to me. Maybe because I was a community organizer for a dozen years, but finding new players has not been difficult for me. What I am interested in are ways in which people have found new players, and built successful gaming groups. If we get enough good answers we could build a guide for others on How to Do It.
What's worked for you, particularly if you want to introduce people to OD&D and other "old school" games?
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 29, 2008 21:08:05 GMT -6
Mine is an indirect reference to The Wind in the Willows, by Kenneth Grahame - my friends also nicknamed me "Old Badger" awhile ago, too.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 9, 2007 12:22:33 GMT -6
Dave Arneson told me more than once that when a character got to 20th level in Blackmoor, three things would happen: - The player received a certification of survival signed by Dave
- Dave would take the player out to dinner, and
- The player now had a retired character ;D
Sounded about right to me.
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Post by badger2305 on Jan 30, 2008 15:18:49 GMT -6
I have several other Wargamer's Digest issues that have early D&D or Chainmail stuff in them (sadly, I don't seem to have the issue with a Tekumel article). I'm thinking of scanning some of the D&D adds. According to www.tekumel.com/about_productlist.html#mfWargamer’s Digest Vol. 3 No. 5 197? The Battle of Ru M.A.R. Barker, p. 24. and www.weirdrealm.com/tekumel/tek_faq.html#10"The Battle of Rü", M.A.R. Barker, Wargamer's Digest, Vol. 3 No. 5, p. 24. Anyone has this issue / can confirm this? I can.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 6, 2007 21:18:03 GMT -6
A woodgrain-box OD&D given to me by my friend Kayte, who went to Lake Geneva High School in the early '70's. Got it signed by Dave Arneson a number of years ago. It would be nice to get it signed by Gary at some point, as well.
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Post by badger2305 on Mar 23, 2008 9:42:35 GMT -6
Welcome, Scott!
(Is there still a game store on the south side of Charleston, just off I-64? I forget the name; they had games and CCGs upstairs and pet stuff downstairs, if I recall correctly. But it's been years since I have been there.)
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 7, 2007 8:01:17 GMT -6
They had gotten their start through La Belle Alliance, later The Little Tin Soldier Shoppe, on Lake Street in Minneapolis. Which then changed to Phoenix Games. Sadly, they closed their doors this summer, but they still exist on the web. Are you still in the Minneapolis area? I'm in Saint Louis Park, myself. Um, sort of? I still have a duplex in Minneapolis, which is currently rented out to friends (Elizabeth, the manager at Dreamhaven Books, is one of them). I get back to Minneapolis/St. Paul about once a month, these days. Not sure what will happen when I graduate. So it's clear as mud.
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Post by badger2305 on Dec 6, 2007 20:48:36 GMT -6
Where to start? I'm 44, and started gaming at the age of 7 when a friend's father pulled out a copy of A/H's U-Boat (with the die-cut depth-charge patterns), and wondered if I wanted to learn how to play. That was around 1969 or 1970 or so. Did that, then Afrika Korps and Blitzkrieg and Stalingrad. Got a little older, and started to play D&D with junior high and high school friends. They had gotten their start through La Belle Alliance, later The Little Tin Soldier Shoppe, on Lake Street in Minneapolis. Was a rugrat member of the Conflict Simulation Association (the student wargames club at the University of Minnesota, and Prof. MAR Barker was its faculty advisor). Did a bunch of gaming at the 6th Precinct Games Group (the pseudonymous "Golden Lion Game Club"), and helped out with Minnesota Campaigns 3 through 5 (again, if memory serves). In the midst of all this, also hung around with the SCA and the local SF fan community, and eventually went off to college. Became a member of Prof. Barker's Thursday Night Group in the early 80's and stuck with that as my longest lasting game campaign. I also did some gaming with Mike Ford, mostly a Renaissance alternate history reminiscent of his The Dragon Waiting. I've played lots of different wargames, miniatures, and role-playing games. Relatively recent stuff (i.e. since 1990 or so) seems overworked and not that much fun to play. These days, the games that interest me are: - Tekumel (I've run sessions of Empire of the Petal Throne at U-Con in Michigan in the past)
- OD&D, right around 1977 or so in flavor
- Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller (the rules, not the setting)
- The Morrow Project (tinkering with using CORPS as a rules set for that)
- ...and maybe a 1930's game, for which a decent set of rules would be appreciated.
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