Why is OD&D Discussion the nicest D&D Forum?

[palmer]

There is very little One True Wayism here at OD&D Discussion, and nobody seems to be thin skinned about their play preferences. It's very rare that there is any sort of gamer slappy fight so common elsewhere.

You guys even tolerate Kent. Tee-hee.. No insult meant Kent.

It seems to me that I've lately been unable to participate on other D&D forums without causing someone's panties to bunch uncomfortably. Even when I'm going out of my way to be diplomatic.

So, is it something about the Original Dungeons & Dragons game oriented crowd that makes proponents of this edition more considering and less defensive?

[foxroe]

Hey!! What are you trying to say!!!?

Just kiddin'. ;D

There's definitely a pleasant, civilized atmosphere around here. I think a lot of it has to do with the subject material; OD&D is long departed from the "edition warz" and likely has a smaller fan base than other editions, so it's no wonder folks are more openly accepting here. Less rats in the cage.

[noffham]

My guess is that we old(er) farts have been around long enough to know that time spent arguing is game time wasted!

[darkling]

Quite possibly its because the people who find us are actively looking looking for a nicer less-one-true-wayish place. I know that's why I am here.

[tombowings]

Part of it stems from there not really being one right way to play OD&D. There's just so many different interpretations.

[geoffrey]

Oct 7, 2011 22:44:50 GMT -6 tombowings said:

Part of it stems from there not really being one right way to play OD&D. There's just so many different interpretations.

Here is my single favorite passage from the 1974 rules:

"[E]verything herein is fantastic, and the best way is to decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way!"

[ragnorakk]

It's true that this is one of the most reasonable boards in internet-land, I dunno why that is. Not to say there haven't been some dust-ups, but overall it's pretty rare. People pretty much keep on-point around here too, which must help.

[Deleted]

I think it's because:

* Board has fairly low number of posters.
* Game has been out of print and is unavailable except for high prices or torrents.
* Low number of people play OD&D compared to later editions.

[Deleted]

Oct 7, 2011 21:25:22 GMT -6 noffham said:

My guess is that we old(er) farts have been around long enough to know that time spent arguing is game time wasted!

Not true sadly - the two most popular 1e forums are full of old fart cyber-warriors and geek-ragers itching for a dust-up to prove their manhood. And that said, I'm not sure why this forum thankfully hasn't followed suit.

While I think the Goblinoid Games forum is "nicer" in the members being friendly and respectful to one another stakes, Marv's forum is definitely the most interesting old school forum by far, with the vast majority of members behaving decently to one another.

[Finarvyn]

Oct 8, 2011 0:00:07 GMT -6 ragnorakk said:

Not to say there haven't been some dust-ups, but overall it's pretty rare.

Seems like every 6 months or so I end up losing sleep for a couple of days because of a blow-up of some kind, but I agree that overall we're pretty civil here. I think there are a couple of reasons for it:
1. We continually work hard to keep things nice. From day #1, folks have complimented each other and reminded each other to be nice. The "exalt" function helps this and overall once you start the right attitude then newcomers tend to follow it as well.
2. I think that the original rules are a great skeleton but from the 1970's folks have felt free to add on as desired, so we're all used to others doing things differently. There are a few posters with very rigid beliefs on how things ought to be done, but in general we're interested in discussing and then letting each player decide how his home game will be run.

[calithena]

There's this great game we like to play. It's really flexible and you can play it just about any way you want. Come discuss it with us!

[aldarron]

I think also there is a natural fit between the idea of freewheeling, rules light gaming embodied in the OD&D rules and being more open and tolerant in general; one tends to go with the other. Wound tight, we are not.

[kent]

DF is a city square. It is too open, too inclusive, there are too many folks there who don't have anything interesting to say about D&D. The majority of the posters there should be lurkers and while they are not they will try the patience of a saint. I know, I am that saint. There are however some very interesting posters there and two years ago DF was the most interesting forum IMO.

KKA is too insular. It is one of those public bars in a hick town that feels like a private sitting room. The moderating core turn up their noses at new members with innovative ideas who can write well. There are many interesting folks who have made very few posts there and moved on. You dare not contradict anyone posing as an expert there.

OD&D Discussion has some good old threads. Ive been reading through Zulgyan's posts/threads to get a feel for the place. Members here don't act above themselves so there is no call for mockery.

[foxroe]

Oct 8, 2011 18:07:03 GMT -6 kent said:

KKA is too insular. It is one of those public bars in a hick town that feels like a private sitting room. The moderating core turn up their noses at new members with innovative ideas who can write well. There are many interesting folks who have made very few posts there and moved on. You dare not contradict anyone posing as an expert there.

I respectfully disagree. As a long-time lurker/member at the Alehouse (and I am not alone on this board in that respect), it's a great place to hang out and discuss 1ed AD&D (and we also have a fondness for OD&D there as well)! Also, I've noted that there seems to be an uptick in membership lately, so it can't be all that bad.

Oct 8, 2011 15:02:57 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

From day #1, folks have complimented each other and reminded each other to be nice. The "exalt" function helps this and overall once you start the right attitude then newcomers tend to follow it as well.

Don't underestimate this function. I think it's something that defintiely helps define the atmosphere around here! Whether someone has posted once, or a 1000 times, if that person has something to add/contribute, then what better way of showing your appreciation?

[Deleted]

I agree. I noticed how its very nice here. Its much like my forums.. very relaxed and nice to chat in.

[Fandomaniac]

I agree! It's a great place and it's hard to argue rules when OD&D focuses on "rulings, not rules." Also, most other forums cover many editions and RPG game systems, so there is a lot of "my edition/RPG is better than your edition/RPG" arguments.

[Deleted]

And the number one reason this is the nicest D&D forum is our Admin - Finarvyn. The Admin sets the tone for a forum with his expectations and example and no one does that better than Finarvyn. Have an Exalt!

[tombowings]

Another reason I can think of is that we are all played so many other great games (since OD&D has been out of print for so long and many of us are going back to it as some form of revival) that we're learned that just about everything and everyone has something to add to discussion: alternative viewpoints are not the devil and we can also learn, bounce ideas off of, and steal from each other. Some times we disagree, buts it's all in good fun and spirit.


From what I've seen, most of the explosions that arise every 6 months or so are generally misunderstandings that get blown out of proportion for the slightest of reasons.

[DungeonDevil]

KKA is too insular. It is one of those public bars in a hick town that feels like a private sitting room. The moderating core turn up their noses at new members with innovative ideas who can write well. There are many interesting folks who have made very few posts there and moved on. You dare not contradict anyone posing as an expert there.

In my 5-6 years on KKA I have never felt unwelcome, nor at DF either, now that I think of it.

However, the forum CotI is where the grognards (and esp. the Mods) are heel-clicking, goose-stepping Brownshirts and where advocating something else than the RAW/BtB approach can get a person perma-banned. My very first day there I was banned. I think a few months later I was given a second ban for contradicting one of the posters who happened to be one of the the Mods. I still post there occasionally, but I'm very wary to post any ideas which are remotely creative or innovative for fear that my third ban will be permanent. There was another poster there who was well known for posting *fantastic*, imaginative interpretations of the rules which inspired and excited me to play the game. However, because he was advocating something not strictly in the books, something which did not harmonise with the official Traveller campaign universe, he was banned too. Shame that.

Here at ODD74 I haven't yet run afoul of anyone. *scans the room for suspects*
I think others hit on the reason why ODD seems to be more tolerant: it not only allows expansion and customisation -- it demands it. The later ideology in RPG design tried to remove player/referee contribution from the product, and that's where you get the room-full of snotty, know-it-all rules-lawyers. *glares balefully in the direction of CotI*

[foxroe]

Oct 9, 2011 19:04:28 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

However, the forum CotI is where the grognards (and esp. the Mods) are heel-clicking, goose-stepping Brownshirts and where advocating something else than the RAW/BtB approach can get a person perma-banned. My very first day there I was banned. I think a few months later I was given a second ban for contradicting one of the posters who happened to be one of the the Mods. I still post there occasionally, but I'm very wary to post any ideas which are remotely creative or innovative for fear that my third ban will be permanent. There was another poster there who was well known for posting *fantastic*, imaginative interpretations of the rules which inspired and excited me to play the game. However, because he was advocating something not strictly in the books, something which did not harmonise with the official Traveller campaign universe, he was banned too. Shame that.

Holy Bovine Batman, are you serious!? What did you say?

I've never encountered problems at CotI. I've always felt perfectly comfortable discussing the original edition there.

I'm assuming you are referring to CT discussion at CotI, BTW. I never prolifically participated in discussion of later editions there.

[DungeonDevil]

I was referring to CotI in general. I've posted on a variety of sub-fora there.

I'm just very glad that there are places to discuss the older, OOP games which, sadly, are not in the public eye/main stream any more. Otherwise I'd be totally cut off from civilisation. Most of the guys in this community are pretty cool. However there are some intense OCD/aspie types which need to step away from the gaming table and get outdoors in the sunlight for a change.

[coffee]

Hey, we have a science fiction section here -- go ahead and post your Traveller stuff. I'll be happy to read it.

Yeah, COTI seems a bit to much like that for my tastes, too. That's why I hang around here. (Also because I think OD&D is the best edition of D&D ever...)

[Finarvyn]

Oct 9, 2011 19:04:28 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

KKA is too insular.

In my 5-6 years on KKA I have never felt unwelcome, nor at DF either, now that I think of it.

I haven't either, but I think it's because in general I try to keep my posts conservative. At KKA in particular if you cross a certain line or say a certain thing or defend a certain person or edition you may get toasted by it. And I'm not always sure which topics are taboo until someone posts and gets fried. Sometimes this happens on DF, but I suspect those people always know they are pushing buttons to make a point. In general I like both boards, but KKA can be kind of intense sometimes.

[Deleted]

Oct 9, 2011 19:04:28 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

I think others hit on the reason why ODD seems to be more tolerant: it not only allows expansion and customisation -- it demands it. The later ideology in RPG design tried to remove player/referee contribution from the product,

There is a large section of buyers and, apparently, producers of RPGs who never got over their experience as 14 year olds with referees on power trips, and so had to fill the rules full of "rules to protect the players from arbitrary GMs".

The only rule needed to protect a player from a bad referee is "Your game is not fun and my feet work."

[vladtolenkov]

I think there are a couple important things a well run board has and this board happens to have them:

1. A clear focus for the board. What is it about? (OD&D!!)

2. Admins have a low threshold for BS/Abuse/Trolling/Drama creation etc. (Thanks Marv!!)

3. Intelligent open minded folks actually wanting to share ideas on the internet (That's you guys).

My wife has frequented a few different message boards in her day and there is some terrible terrible stuff that happens on some forums that can make your head explode. All of that stuff is refreshingly absent here.

[ragnorakk]

Oh yeah! Retaining Exalt while removing Smite. That was good - reduces the power of the anonymous grump. Now if someone posts something that you really want to disagree with, you have[/i] to explain yourself (i.e. ideally enter into conversation).

[Deleted]

What? Actually be REASONABLE on the Internet?

That's just crazy talk! ;D

[stonetoflesh]

Oct 9, 2011 19:04:28 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

However, the forum CotI is where the grognards (and esp. the Mods) are heel-clicking, goose-stepping Brownshirts and where advocating something else than the RAW/BtB approach can get a person perma-banned. My very first day there I was banned. I think a few months later I was given a second ban for contradicting one of the posters who happened to be one of the the Mods. I still post there occasionally, but I'm very wary to post any ideas which are remotely creative or innovative for fear that my third ban will be permanent. There was another poster there who was well known for posting *fantastic*, imaginative interpretations of the rules which inspired and excited me to play the game. However, because he was advocating something not strictly in the books, something which did not harmonise with the official Traveller campaign universe, he was banned too. Shame that.

Here at ODD74 I haven't yet run afoul of anyone. *scans the room for suspects*
I think others hit on the reason why ODD seems to be more tolerant: it not only allows expansion and customisation -- it demands it. The later ideology in RPG design tried to remove player/referee contribution from the product, and that's where you get the room-full of snotty, know-it-all rules-lawyers. *glares balefully in the direction of CotI*

While both OD&D and Traveller began as toolboxes (albeit with some implied setting elements), OD&D managed to avoid being saddled with an official setting. So the ODD74 civility is bolstered not only by rules-vagueness but setting-vagueness as well.

Most of the unpleasant behavior I've observed at CotI seems connected to OTU "heresies." If OD&D had run a similar course -- say, if Greyhawk had become the "official" OD&D setting -- would ODD74 have a CotI-esque grumpy-canon-police presence?

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2011 13:24:10 GMT -6 stonetoflesh said:

grumpy-canon-police presence?

You rang? ;D

[grodog]

Oct 8, 2011 20:58:19 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Oct 8, 2011 18:07:03 GMT -6 kent said:

KKA is too insular. It is one of those public bars in a hick town that feels like a private sitting room. The moderating core turn up their noses at new members with innovative ideas who can write well. There are many interesting folks who have made very few posts there and moved on. You dare not contradict anyone posing as an expert there.

I respectfully disagree. As a long-time lurker/member at the Alehouse (and I am not alone on this board in that respect), it's a great place to hang out and discuss 1ed AD&D (and we also have a fondness for OD&D there as well)! Also, I've noted that there seems to be an uptick in membership lately, so it can't be all that bad.

That's been my experience at K&K as well, FWIW: it's where I hang out the most, in general (since I'm pretty inactive at DF, and don't engage in many of the sub-boards' topics here).