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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 24, 2017 16:14:16 GMT -6
My questions never got answered. Now I has a sad  |
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Post by foxroe on Aug 24, 2017 18:45:10 GMT -6
My questions never got answered. Now I has a sad Maybe PM him or tag him? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 21:10:06 GMT -6
Oh, very well.
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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 25, 2017 15:39:49 GMT -6
When your shoulder's feeling well enough of course. I know there are a LOT of questions, but I'm curious as to how these things were handled in the 70's by any with memories that long. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 21:32:22 GMT -6
Yep. The trouble with a wodge of questions at once is I look at it and go "Whoa, that's a lot of questions, I'll get to it later."
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Post by sixdemonbag on Aug 25, 2017 23:19:03 GMT -6
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Post by foxroe on Aug 26, 2017 0:50:21 GMT -6
1 Wodge = 0.62 Metric But-load
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:10:20 GMT -6
I had several questions that I know have come up often, but was wondering Gronan's take on things, having been there and all: 1) Elves: know any that played 'em? If so, how did one divvy up hit dice between two classes or otherwise run them before the Greyhawk supplement came about? Regarding armor, I see many consider elves can only use magic armor, which makes no sense to me as that would indicate the Clerics can only use weapons and armor if they're magical also. I'm assuming that "magic" armor also includes the more mundane stuff too. I know one woman who played an Elf. I have no idea how the mechanics worked other than what's in the book. Your questions on armor make no sense to me. The text says "They may use magic armor and still act as Magic-Users." It says nothing about restricting armor when Elves are acting as fighters. The text also says clearly they must choose to be one or another during the adventure. "I'm assuming that "magic" armor also includes the more mundane stuff too." I am unable to figure out what this means. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:12:49 GMT -6
2) Hid Dice in general: Where they rolled once at creation then added to per level? Rolled at every level in total (like the Superhero example)? Perhaps even rolled fresh before every combat? When you leveled up, Gary gave you the option to roll one new one, or reroll all. Whichever you chose, you were bound by that choice. You could also choose to reroll hit dice anytime you were "rested up" after an adventure, but again, if you rolled lower than your previous total, you kept the new total regardless. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:13:49 GMT -6
3) Reading about mermen and their attacks, one gets the sense these aren't your half-man/half-fish types, but rather bipedal fish-men (Deep Ones?). Do you remember them being described as such at all? How exactly does a dude with a tail instead of legs "mount" a seahorse; side-saddle?? Never encountered, never worried about. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:15:45 GMT -6
4) Was there a limit on how many PCs a player could control? For example, did anyone ever roll up 2+ characters to use at once, or did they have to wait 'til they could afford retainers/mercenaries? We all had multiple characters but didn't play them together. Even if one had more than one character present, only one would have been the primary PC and the others would have been considered henchmen. But I am not ever aware of it happening. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:18:50 GMT -6
enaries? 5) Are all magic swords supposed to have alignment, intelligence and ego? Is there a random way to tell which do and which are "just magic swords"? Since the text clearly says "Swords have an alignment (Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic), an Intelligence factor, and an egoism rating", take a guess. I'm not going to teach you to read. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 12:19:48 GMT -6
6) Rounds and turns. Are these messed up a little? I'm looking at troll regeneration and ooze damage and it seems... slow. So what? If it's too slow for your taste, change it. |
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Post by sixdemonbag on Aug 26, 2017 13:49:39 GMT -6
When you leveled up, Gary gave you the option to roll one new one, or reroll all. Whichever you chose, you were bound by that choice. You could also choose to reroll hit dice anytime you were "rested up" after an adventure, but again, if you rolled lower than your previous total, you kept the new total regardless. This is great. I am gonna do it this way from now on. |
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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 26, 2017 15:41:58 GMT -6
I had several questions that I know have come up often, but was wondering Gronan's take on things, having been there and all: 1) Elves: know any that played 'em? If so, how did one divvy up hit dice between two classes or otherwise run them before the Greyhawk supplement came about? Regarding armor, I see many consider elves can only use magic armor, which makes no sense to me as that would indicate the Clerics can only use weapons and armor if they're magical also. I'm assuming that "magic" armor also includes the more mundane stuff too. I know one woman who played an Elf. I have no idea how the mechanics worked other than what's in the book. Your questions on armor make no sense to me. The text says "They may use magic armor and still act as Magic-Users." It says nothing about restricting armor when Elves are acting as fighters. The text also says clearly they must choose to be one or another during the adventure. "I'm assuming that "magic" armor also includes the more mundane stuff too." I am unable to figure out what this means. To put the armor statement in longer context: I'm assuming that, when pertaining to class descriptions (such as a Cleric being able to use all magic armors), "magic" armor also includes the more mundane (non-magical) armor as well. My apologies for making the sentence to concise and straight forward. Sometimes context helps a lot. Otherwise it makes the person reading not quite understand and wonder if they need to be taught how to read or something, haha. |
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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 26, 2017 15:44:54 GMT -6
enaries? 5) Are all magic swords supposed to have alignment, intelligence and ego? Is there a random way to tell which do and which are "just magic swords"? Since the text clearly says "Swords have an alignment (Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic), an Intelligence factor, and an egoism rating", take a guess. I'm not going to teach you to read. Oh dear, I guess I'll have to learn English. Because to me, what's literally written is that magic swords, among weaponry, HAVE the ability for intelligence. But not necessarily that they ALL swords do. Now I want a Paladin just to see how smart my Holy Avenger can be! |
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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 26, 2017 15:52:59 GMT -6
6) Rounds and turns. Are these messed up a little? I'm looking at troll regeneration and ooze damage and it seems... slow. So what? If it's too slow for your taste, change it. I think you misunderstand my question: it's not that 10 minute turns are slow. It's that a troll regenerating 3 HP per turn seems more like just healing instead of "regenerating". But the words clearing state that a turn is 10 minute representation, including 10 rounds. The troll's entry does not make mention of these turns being special 'combat turns' or anything. But again, with my level of reading, what can I do but seek more definitive answers elsewhere. Like Carl Sagan once put to ink: "There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question". I do appreciate your "if you don't like it, change it" answer (a VERY common one), but that pretty much negates any and all questions anyone could ever have about this game. I'll not bother asking further; If there's a rule that's not laid out in a "See Spot Run" fashion, I'll simply change it. Gaming is all about just guidelines and having fun after all. No need for anything definitive  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 17:15:12 GMT -6
To put the armor statement in longer context: I'm assuming that, when pertaining to class descriptions (such as a Cleric being able to use all magic armors), "magic" armor also includes the more mundane (non-magical) armor as well. My apologies for making the sentence to concise and straight forward. Sometimes context helps a lot. Otherwise it makes the person reading not quite understand and wonder if they need to be taught how to read or something, haha. Crom's hairy nutsack. MAGIC ARMOR DOES NOT INCLUDE NON MAGIC ARMOR! What on EARTH could POSSIBLY result in that sort of confusion? The text is clear and unambiguous! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 17:16:30 GMT -6
The text says what it says.
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Post by talysman on Aug 27, 2017 0:49:37 GMT -6
To put the armor statement in longer context: I'm assuming that, when pertaining to class descriptions (such as a Cleric being able to use all magic armors), "magic" armor also includes the more mundane (non-magical) armor as well. My apologies for making the sentence to concise and straight forward. Sometimes context helps a lot. Otherwise it makes the person reading not quite understand and wonder if they need to be taught how to read or something, haha. Crom's hairy nutsack. MAGIC ARMOR DOES NOT INCLUDE NON MAGIC ARMOR! What on EARTH could POSSIBLY result in that sort of confusion? The text is clear and unambiguous! I think he's thinking in terms of what armor a character can wear, rather than what armor a class can use. "Magic Armor" is a type of armor (subset of a larger class,) so if a character can't physically put on plate armor, they shouldn't be able to put on magical plate, either. But that's just common sense, and as you have remarked a couple times, decades of increasingly specific versions of the rules has kind of made people gunshy about making common sense rulings. The books, of course, are only concerned with the exceptions to common sense, like what armor a class can wear while still functioning as that class, and what magical items will work as expected for that class. Some people might not have had that epiphany. Or maybe they get what the text is saying, but they don't like what it says, and want it to say something else, instead of just saying "screw it, I'll change that rule because I think it will be more fun this way." |
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Post by Porphyre on Aug 27, 2017 15:58:09 GMT -6
I think the confusion finds it source in the original wording of the cleric class:
"Clerics: Clerics gain some of the advantages from both of the other two classes I Fighting-Men and Magic-Users) in that they have the use of magic armor and all non-edged magic weapons (no arrows!)" (emphasis mine)
Some, by this wording, have inferred that original clerics could not use magic edged weaponry, but that restriction wasn't extended to non-magic weaponry; when all ulterior editions showus clearly that the prohibition on magic weaponry DID include actually non-magic weapons (and Gary Gygax mocked a critic for not understanding it in an issue of the SR )
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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 28, 2017 18:09:48 GMT -6
Yes exactly! And that's why the booklets (as written) lead one to think that Clerics (again, just as an example) cannot use regular armor & weapons, but can use them if they're magical. The text says what it says. It COULD seem pretty clear and unambiguous. An elf may use MAGIC armor and still cast spells, but not while wearing mundane (non-magical) armor. This is what I'm seeing, I'm just trying to see if it's how things were actually done.
I also hope my retorts were taken with a grain (or pile) of salt. They certainly weren't meant to be taken personally, or as insulting as they may have seemed. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Mornard, and hope to find wisdom in all his answers. Even the grumpy ones!
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Post by murquhart72 on Aug 28, 2017 18:15:07 GMT -6
One last reiterated question, because I'm a glutton for punishment:
Does the Referee roll all the dice in the game (ability rolls, hit dice, saving throws, combat & damage rolls, etc.)? If not, what types of dice (or situations), if any, are PLAYERS expected to roll? I'm wondering how much control over dice-rolling I should have in my games as opposed to when the players get to roll some bones.
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Post by Porphyre on Aug 28, 2017 18:56:40 GMT -6
An elf may use MAGIC armor and still cast spells, but not while wearing mundane (non-magical) armor. And I think that was also D'Holmes interprétation, based on his novels, but I haven't red them, so I'm talking just by hearsay . Must cast "Summon Zenopus" .  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 20:21:09 GMT -6
The best way to get a straightforward answer is to ask a straightforward question.
Because tone doesn't carry across the Internet, and you would not BELIEVE the stupid sh*t people ask.
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Post by Scott Anderson on Aug 28, 2017 23:49:46 GMT -6
Michael,
1) what is your favorite tabletop game to play? To ref?
2) what is your favorite game to play?
3) what is your favorite game to watch or study?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 10:30:17 GMT -6
1) Wargame or RPG?
2) Wargame or RPG?
3) None
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Post by Scott Anderson on Aug 29, 2017 18:29:52 GMT -6
Thanks. I mean any game. Any genre.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 10:05:12 GMT -6
I don't think I have a favorite. System is the last thing I worry about in any game. I have encountered a few stinkers along the way, but most games are fun.
My favorite medieval fantasy RPG to run is OD&D, but that's no surprise.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 16:27:34 GMT -6
To put the armor statement in longer context: I'm assuming that, when pertaining to class descriptions (such as a Cleric being able to use all magic armors), "magic" armor also includes the more mundane (non-magical) armor as well. My apologies for making the sentence to concise and straight forward. Sometimes context helps a lot. Otherwise it makes the person reading not quite understand and wonder if they need to be taught how to read or something, haha. I'm going to take another run at this. If I understand your question, it is "It says clerics may use magic armor. Most people also let clerics use non magic armor. It says elves may use magic armor as Magic Users. Why is this not interpreted to let Elves use non magic armor as magic users?" I believe that is the question. Anyway... beats me. I had been playing for almost a year and a half when the written rules came out. I KNEW that Clerics could use nonmagical plate armor already. |
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