Klytus, I'm bored.

[Stormcrow]

More surface area or volume means more of the monster you can damage in a single blow. This is most true with slashing weapons.

[Zenopus]

Also note that the 1d10 damage for Ogres may be interpreted as their damage without using any weapon. In Greyhawk the lesser humanoids say (for example) "1-6 or by weapon type" but the Ogre just says "1-10". Since a Gnoll does 1-8 without a weapon obviously the Ogre's damage applies to unarmed damage, but does this mean they also do the same with a weapon?

In the Monster Manual Gary updated the Ogre to "1-10 or by weapon" and a further note in the text says they do +2 damage if using a weapon, leaders +3, chieftains +4.

[Deleted]

May 27, 2015 21:14:12 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Gronan, over on Chirine's Workbench he posted a picture of one of Dave Arneson's early minis. It's another one of the plastic monsters from the same 'Prehistoric Animal' set as the Rust Monster & Land Shark/Bulette. Do you recognize this one or remember if Dave used it for any particular D&D monster?

chirinesworkbench.blogspot.com/2015/05/memories-on-memorial-day-2015.html

No idea, sorry.

One thing that should be noted is that Dave was not afraid to grab a handy miniature and say "This is the hydra" or whatever, whether or not it looked like a hydra. So that thingummy in the picture, which looks like the monster from an old Flash Gordon serial, could be used for anything.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2015 8:15:50 GMT -6 riftstone said:

Another little question about variable weapon damage, just for my curiosity. Do you know the reason for having different damage for small/medium opponents and for large opponent?

I always found it odd in AD&D that an Ogre would do 1-10 damage but most PC's would do 1-12 or 3-18 vs the Ogre.

I can't say for sure, but I strongly suspect Gary made up some $hit he thought would be fun.

[geoffrey]

Michael, Gary mentioned in the Dungeon Masters Guide that in his Greyhawk campaign there had been 3 demon lords involved in the course of many years of play. Do you know which 3 demon lords Gary was referring to here?

[Deleted]

Nope. Rob has talked about freeing Zuggtomy or however it's spelled, so that's probably one.

[scottenkainen]

(I know it's Mike's Q&A thread, but we do know about Fraz-Urb'luu being one of the three; he was trapped in a floor in Castle Greyhawk's dungeon -- separate from the trapped demi-gods -- and this was written about in one of the "Up on a Soapbox" columns in Dragon magazine. I don't think we know for certain who the third one is...but I suspect it's Graz'zt, given how prominently featured Graz'zt is in the Gord novels, and debuting in module S4 alongside Fraz-Urb'luu. Or it could be Lolth, who we know was meant to play a part in Temple of Elemental Evil from module T1.)

[scottyg]

Graz'zt never came up in play. Robilar interacted with Zuggtmoy, so that's a good possibility. Gary told a story of Orcus popping up once in a con game. Yeenoghu was encountered in Dark Druids, but that was Rob DMing for Jim Ward, so don't know if that counts.

[Porphyre]

Hi, Sir Gronan.

I think you already answered that question, but the issue recentely popped up in another forum discussion , and I wasn't able to find out the original post.
My question being : after the 3 Advanced D&D "core books" were published, did Gary Gygax keep on playing "xhite box" D&D, did he "switch" to AD&D , or was he using a hodge podge of both?

[geoffrey]

Module WG6: Isle of the Ape includes the following note:

This module is based on an actual portion of the Greyhawk castle campaign initiated by the author in 1972...the participants of the original adventures that took place on the Isle of the Ape include the following: Don Arendt, Ernie Gygax, Don Kaye, Rob Kuntz, Terry Kuntz, and Mike Monard. It is worth noting that none of these Bold Adventurers ever completed the quest opting to risk other fell places rather than continuing to face the perils of the island.

Michael, the module includes a powerful demonic entity named Tul-oc-luc. Did any of you actually encounter this being, or was Tul-oc-luc merely in the background?

[Deleted]

Don't remember, sorry.

[Red Baron]

Did you do any of the writing for TSR products?

Are any of your own dungeons typed up for convention games or publication?

[Deleted]

No and no.

[Scott Anderson]

How did you guys com up with 1 GP = 1/10 lb?

[Deleted]

Extractibus ex recto tuum.

[Deleted]

Since all encumbrance is in GP, I strongly suspect Gary made it up out of think air to make things easy.

[Scott Anderson]

It's brilliant actually. It links XP, encumbrance, and move rate. It makes you make choices between more gear and more XP and more ability to explore/flee.

[jeff]

Mike,

I've read several accounts of early play and there's something I've been meaning to ask those who played with Gary in the pre-AD&D days.

It seems to me that there was virtually no distinction between player knowledge and PC knowledge. So if player knew that it took fire or acid to kill a troll, then the PC knew it also, regardless of level or anything. Was it really like that? If your PC died (because you were playing stupid), and you rolled up a new one, did you just carry the knowledge forward?

If that's the case, how significant were the INT and WIS stats other than for XP adjustments?

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

Oh, and is there any chance we might see you at convention like North Texas RPG Con?

[Deleted]

I'd love to go to North Texas RPG, but my job provides no paid vacation.

Yes, the character knew what that player knew.

STR, INT, and WIS made absolutely no difference other than XP. Well not quite; INT let you learn languages, and might have helped with spells. But the stats were to suggest, not restrict. A character with all stats between 9 and 12 was totally viable in any role.

I really, really, really hate the way stats have become so important.

[jeff]

Thanks for your response. I posted the same question for RJK over on the Ruins of Murkhill board (didn't realize that you were on that board as well).

I've always played where players are cautious about player vs. PC knowledge and I'm quickly coming around to the idea that I much rather prefer that player and PC knowledge are fairly symmetrical. With the exception of player secrets and possibly party secrets, a newly minted PC that comes into play after the death of my recently demised PC will know, for the most part, exactly what the dead PC knew. It's fine at a dungeon level, because the DM is constantly changing the dungeon anyway, and it removes the complication in play regarding the "your PC wouldn't know that" argument that might come up.

Thanks again, very much appreciative of all you guys who are were involved in the very early days and are still willing to talk/share/contribute.

[legopaidi]

1) Did you ever encounter demihuman NPCs that had classes not normally allowed for demihuman PCs?

2) Was the Cleric always restricted in blundgeon-only weapons? I know about the "Archbishop Turpin" origin of the class but I was wondering if this changed at all at your gaming tables.

[raisin]

Dear Mr. Gronan,

I have a few questions, if you'll indulge me.

1. Did people die at 0hp or were there already house rules on this?

2. How does one defeat a purple worm?

3. How much emphasis was put on clarity and communication at the table? Like, was there situations were a player didn't misheard something the DM said, and died because of it, or was it always bad luck and stupidity that killed people?

I ask because (1) I'm really tempted by doing the death at 0hp thing but I'm afraid my players will get a bit too whiny about it; (2) they recently faced giants and managed to befriend and poison them, but since giant worms are mostly living underground and might come out of nowhere, how does one survive such an event, beside luck? And (3) I want to prevent any situation in which a player does something foolish because they didn't understand the situation there were in, but I don't want to "hold their hands" by revealing more informations than I should. I'm almost always the DM, and my few GMing friends don't do OSR games, so I have no live-exemple to see if I'm "doing it right".

Good night!

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2016 3:31:48 GMT -6 legopaidi said:

1) Did you ever encounter demihuman NPCs that had classes not normally allowed for demihuman PCs?

2) Was the Cleric always restricted in blundgeon-only weapons? I know about the "Archbishop Turpin" origin of the class but I was wondering if this changed at all at your gaming tables.

1) We wouldn't know. We weren't told "this is a 6th level cleric," all we had to go by is what they did. Orcish shamans, for instance, seemed to be able to use some magic user spells and some cleric spells, but this was never spelled out for us. NPCs did things and we reacted.


2) In the early days, no bladed weapons, yes. At my table, no bladed weapons, yes.

[korvin0starmast]

Nov 1, 2016 22:40:38 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

2) In the early days, 

Hail, gronanofsymmeria!

A question that I think you may be uniquely qualified to answer, since you got to play in Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and Tekumel.  

As RPG's were forming, were the player characters expected to distrust, mistreat, and work against the other player characters?  

In a shorter question: PvP -- how common was it as you all played with the originators of the hobby?

Here's part of why I ask:

I started playing in D&D in 1975 (in Virginia) and started DM'ing an EPT campaign in 1977.  Most of us came to the RPG/D&D hobby from war gaming and board gaming.  

We, as groups, generally played the game in a "player versus environment" format, where the DM set up the environment and we tried to succeed and not die.  Great fun.    
(We started with poker chips with numbers on the before our local game store finally got some polyhedral dice.  Crazy days. ) 

In the first five years that I played, there were some occasional Player Versus Player battles, but the general theme and tone was "us against this dangerous and lethal world the DM is running."  We had a few mega battles as we tried out Swords and Spells, but making the magic work right for that was hit or miss.  

When you played in those three campaigns -- Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and Tekumel -- how much PvP was expected by the DM/GM running the game?  
I get an idea that each of the venerable originators of our hobby had a different take on that.  
How much PvP did you all do, or like to do?  

In the D&D original campaign model, once we got to name level we could, and some people did in our group:
build that castle, make an army, and do wars between duchies, or clerical strongholds, and even a wizard raising an army while ensconced in his tower.   

Did you do that in our campaigns, versus other players, or did you stick to PvE? 

(FWIW, I played a few table top games of Chainmail when I was in high school without knowing what the game was called, before D&D was released. It was a medieval miniatures fight as a break from our usual Napoleonic and Revolutionary war mini fights ...)

the other reason I ask is that you may be able to answer a friend's question here, but whether or not that interests you is very much up to you.  

rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/98184/in-gamings-infancy-were-pcs-expected-to-distrust-mistreat-and-work-against-o

Warmest Regards
KorvinStarmast

[Deleted]

Not much PvP per se, but very MUCH "uneasy alliances between ruthless pirates."

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2015 20:56:28 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

May 27, 2015 21:14:12 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Gronan, over on Chirine's Workbench he posted a picture of one of Dave Arneson's early minis. It's another one of the plastic monsters from the same 'Prehistoric Animal' set as the Rust Monster & Land Shark/Bulette. Do you recognize this one or remember if Dave used it for any particular D&D monster?

chirinesworkbench.blogspot.com/2015/05/memories-on-memorial-day-2015.html

No idea, sorry.

One thing that should be noted is that Dave was not afraid to grab a handy miniature and say "This is the hydra" or whatever, whether or not it looked like a hydra. So that thingummy in the picture, which looks like the monster from an old Flash Gordon serial, could be used for anything.

A further note on this. Somebody had the pack of plastic monsters at GaryCon that includes this critter. Several of them are bipedal like this one.

One of the artists, I don't remember who, looked at them and said "These things have human proportions." They are very likely "guy in a suit" monsters from some cheap movie.

[Zenopus]

Thanks, Mike. It may have been at Horticultural Hall on Friday evening. I took this photo of the monsters. They are Paul Stormberg's; they were set up on a table that Bill Meinhardt was watching.

[Deleted]

That was when, yes. I just don't remember who actually pointed it out.

[Red Baron]

In The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, gameplay in the underworld proceeds according to these rules...

A. Dungeon Exploration: Exploration is divided into 10 minute exploration turns. Two full moves constitute a turn, except in flight/pursuit situations where there will be four moves per turn (and no mapping allowed). After five turns or exploration, characters must rest for a turn. After flight/pursuit situations, two turns of rest are required.

B. Light: Torches, lanterns and magic swords will reveal their bearers presence, so that monsters will never be surprised by parties with a light source. Torches illuminate 40’, light spell 30’, magic swords 20’.

C. Pits: 2/6 chance for a pit to spring open under a random character. There is an x in 6 chance per x levels fallen that xd6 damage is sustained from the fall.

D. Doors: 
Doors: 2/6 chance to open, 1/6 for hobbits and weaklings. If it doesn’t open, a full turn must be spent on each subsequent attempt.
Secret doors: 2/6 chance to detect, 4/6 for elfs. Secret doors always open readily.
Listen at doors: 1/6 chance to hear a noise beyond, 2/6 for elfs, dwarfs, hobbits.
(The density of oak is 45 lbs per cubic foot, therefore a 10’x10’x1’ door weighs 4500lbs!!!)

E. Running Away:
Most monsters will continue pursuit in a straight line as long as there is not more than 90 feet between the two parties. Distance will open or close dependent upon the relative speeds of the two parties, according to their respective movement rates. To move faster, characters may discard items such as treasure in order to reduce encumbrance. Turning a corner, passing through a door, or changing elevation will loose a monster on a 3/6. Passing through a secret passage or door will loose a monster on a 5/6. Burning oil will deter most monsters. Food will deter unintelligent monsters on a 5/6. Significant treasure will deter intelligent monsters on a 5/6, unless they believe more treasure may be easily gained by pursuit.

Did Gary and Dave run their games this way? Do you?

[Deleted]

Yes and yes. Nothing like pursuit to screw up mapping.

But surprise is possible through a door.