Ranking Star Wars....was "Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi"

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

My own impressions - I'm strangely unfazed. I hope they make up for Episode VII, which I deeply disliked - but I don't hold these hopes too high.


The music, though, still the main selling point for me.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3YcCLaTnBE

[foxroe]

I have a "New Hope" that it will be better than VII.

Rogue One, however, was fantastic. I could watch that one plus the original (IV) over and over, and be perfectly content to never watch the others.

[foxroe]

OK... this has been gnawing away at the back of my brain for a couple of days now. The biggest beef I had with VII is that they basically reused all of the plot elements from the original (IV): Death Star. Check. Tatooine. Check. Cute droid. Check. Latent force-using hero(ine). Check. Dark, brooding, mask-wearing Jedi turned-Sith. Check. Kill a major character. Check. etc.

After thinking about the teaser a bit, I can't help but think the same thing:
- Luke living the hermit's life on a remote world --> Yoda
- Epic battle --> Hoth
- Rey learning to control the Force from Luke --> Luke learning from Yoda
- Finn in "suspended animation" --> Han in carbonite
etc.

I hope it doesn't turn out to be a rehash of Empire Strikes Back...

[Stormcrow]

Darth Vader didn't brood in the original Star Wars.

[18 Spears]

Looks lik fun, I cant wait

[foxroe]

Apr 18, 2017 8:06:44 GMT -6 Stormcrow said:

Darth Vader didn't brood in the original Star Wars.

Sure he did. You just couldn't tell through the mask.

[kenmeister]

Apr 18, 2017 2:21:55 GMT -6 foxroe said:

OK... this has been gnawing away at the back of my brain for a couple of days now. The biggest beef I had with VII is that they basically reused all of the plot elements from the original (IV): Death Star. Check. Tatooine. Check. Cute droid. Check. Latent force-using hero(ine). Check. Dark, brooding, mask-wearing Jedi turned-Sith. Check. Kill a major character. Check. etc.

After thinking about the teaser a bit, I can't help but think the same thing:
- Luke living the hermit's life on a remote world --> Yoda
- Epic battle --> Hoth
- Rey learning to control the Force from Luke --> Luke learning from Yoda
- Finn in "suspended animation" --> Han in carbonite
etc.

I hope it doesn't turn out to be a rehash of Empire Strikes Back...

Yup my thoughts too.

[ritt]

This "hand made" fan-made trailer is full of charm and made my day:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHEXYvZY2gQ

[Deleted]

Might be fun to discuss this movie now. Fun, apparently, as in: Seeing a garbage bin burn.

Most independent/non-big US press reviews are abyssmal, apparently, and the filtered plot points so far seem to suggest that, uuuuh, maybe the Prequel Trilogy won't look as bad in retrospect. What the hell, Disney?


Not trying to troll you good folks, and I have not seen the movie yet, so I personally won't blindly re-post any spoiler reports - but my willingness to spend twenty bucks to watch this one in the theatre, it has, errrh, well, perhaps... NO.

[Deleted]

Not a real review, but those guys are making me happy for all the wrong reasons. - The Dark Side has always been stronger than the Light.

[Deleted]

Hehe, I just realized that I am always posting one or two days before one of the movies appears in the cinema, and that I am always being a negative Nancy. My apologies! For further context:

The Force Awakens - read both the script and the novelization in advance of the movie's release. How, I cannot disclose - only, that I didn't do anything illegal. Didn't particularly dislike the scripts, but was very disappointed in the movie. Mainly because of its pacing, and the weird way they handled Han/Leia.

Roge One - watched the movie on a plane this year. Not disappointed, but also not too invested. Not my cup of tea, simply.

The Last Jedi - no info other than the one that is online, and I liked the trailer. Main criticism seems to be that the new trilogy so far has no internal consistency, and that the focus seems to be to retroactively delegitimize or to depower the Jedi-Sith mythology as the center of the Star Wars setting, presumably in order to open the movie universe to more up-to-date content. Not sure what to think, so far - but, if the spoilers are to be believed, then there is an attempt at a notable paradigm shift away from the original material, in that at least a third faction is introduced in the fight for the galaxy. I'll reserve judgement about the movie's overall quality, but I can only report that fans are apparently criticizing this virtually everywhere.

[Falconer]

Is it weird that I’m thinking of waiting for the audiobook and experiencing it that way first?

[Deleted]

I SHALL RECUSE MYSELF FROM COMMENTING ON THIS ISSUE ANY FURTHER

I JUST RETURNED FROM THE SCREENING

I DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE ONE-SIDED DISCUSSIONS OF ANY SORT




LET ME ILLUSTRATE YOU MY MENTAL STATE RIGHT NOW THOUGH

WITH THIS GIF

[ritt]

I'm still cautiously optimistic because the writer/director's previous film Looper was really weird and cool and had a nice "Oddball sixties SF paperback" vibe to it.

[sixdemonbag]

I'm always willing to give anything SW a fair shake. I like VII better than any of the prequels but that's not saying much. I've actually really enjoyed both of the animated Clone Wars series and the current Rebels series. Tartakovsky, in particular, made my favorite Prequel-era stories. Much better than the features.

I really love everything about VII right until Han Solo and Chewbacca show up. At that point, the whole thing falls apart and feels rushed and poorly edited. Interestingly, the first 45 minutes of Rogue One feels likewise rushed and poorly edited, whereas the last 30 minutes were great (CGI Tarkin and Leia excepted, they were horrible).

I'm mixed on Rian Johnson. Brick is a Neo-Noir arthouse masterpiece but The Brothers Bloom was not good. Looper was lukewarm for me but had some standout scenes. The Emily Blount wood-chooping scene was a good example of Rian Johnson at his best. Overall, I liked Looper but not nearly as much as Brick.

I will be seeing VIII in the theater (either IMAX or Alamo Drafthouse), but my expectations will be on the low side.

[sixdemonbag]

Dec 13, 2017 17:17:46 GMT -6 @rafael said:

The kid in that gif might be the best actor in all the prequels lol. That's a surprisingly naturalistic and affecting reaction!!

Actually, Ewan, Liam, Lee, and Ian did a great job with what they were given. All credit due.

[Deleted]

Not to give a brutish one-liner, but my verdict on the prequels has always been that they were "incompetent" movies - that they failed to sell a story that would maybe have worked under different circumstances, or, in practice, with some changes in production.

My verdict on the sequel movies is that they are made by competent filmmakers, but at the same time, somewhat paradoxically, fundamentally struggle to tell a story that is even remotely convincing, coherent, or consistent with any of the earlier movies: I find this extremely bewildering and annoying because the authors of the new franchise could literally have chosen to tell ANY stories they wanted. And yet, small spoilers here, the directors and writers *legitimately* seem not to know what to do with a large number of characters that they themselves chose to place inside the narrative. I also seriously doubt that the people in charge understand the source material they're working with. Not, like, in this particular situation. I mean, in principle.

I don't say that as a hater; TFA was a WAY better movie than TLJ, and TLJ is not even a convincing sequel to its predecessor - for reasons you will immediately get when you watch them.

Overall, this was the worst Hollywood movie I watched in theaters since 2004's "Alexander". Not "controversial", not "taking a different direction", just tragically, comically bad.


There is a particular scene when one character touches another character's head with a stick. The audience over here almost rioted. In a movie theatre. Beyond absurdity.

[geoffrey]

I am planning to see The Last Jedi this coming Tuesday (which is cheapo day at my local theatre). My rankings:

1. Star Wars (best movie of all time)
2. Rogue One (a great "picture frame" to the best movie of all time)
3. The Empire Strikes Back (very well-made sequel, but it made some missteps)
4. Return of the Jedi (mediocre, but on the higher side of average)
5. The Force Awakens (mediocre, but on the lower side of average)
6. Revenge of the Sith (a complete mess, but at least it is not boring)
7. Attack of the Clones (commits the cardinal sin of movies: it's boring--but without Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd)
8. The Phantom Menace (commits the cardinal sin of movies: it's boring--with Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd)

Where will The Last Jedi go in my rankings? I expect right below The Force Awakens, but perhaps it will be one slot above or below that. I have a hard time believing it could beat Return of the Jedi or be worse than AOTC or TPM.

[Deleted]

Good morrow!

Again, I won't post spoilers until after the weekend, even though they're even on Wikipedia, at this point. I think posting a list like Geoff's might give be interesting for everyone, as well - because tastes do, of course, differ.

1. Return of the Jedi (No excuse, simply the first SW movie I ever watched, at seven years of age. Also, I was a big Ewoks fan as a kid.)
2. Star Wars (I am with Fin and some others here in that I find the original vision as intriguing as the Empire and post-Empire developments.)
3. The Empire Strikes Back (Liked Hoth and the development of Han and Leia; disliked Yoda.)
4. The Force Awakens (Not, per se, a bad sequel; a totally different direction than I personally would have liked, though.)
5. Rogue One (Not bad at all, but I didn't find anything in the movie particularly remarkable.)
6. Attack of the Clones (Liked it back in the day; I guess mainly for not being Episode I; some beautiful visuals, though, and Obi-Wan was fun.)
7. The Phantom Menace (Home Alone in space, with Jar Jar. That said, nice visuals, and some charismatic lead actors.)
8. The Last Jedi (Messes up even the reduced canon in unforgivably stupid ways.)
9. Revenge of the Sith (Rushes and shoehorns a conclusion to a story that could have been planned way better.)

[ritt]

SPOILER-FREE MINI-REVIEW

Mark Hamill's performance was awesome. He and Fisher added a lot of gravitas to the film. The movie is worth seeing for them alone.

Lots of interesting casting choices and odd faces. The Resistance really seemed like a ramshackle yet admirable lot of plucky misfits.

Great use of colors. Some really striking red/black and red/white schemes that are maybe intended to be homages to late Kurosawa. Maybe. Anyway, it looks good.

Generally I really liked the movie and had a great time but purists should be cautioned that it's a bit... "Quirkier"... and maybe "Looser" than The Force Awakens or Rogue One. Parts of it almost felt more like Splinter of the Mind's Eye or even the first few years of vintage Marvel SW comics. Jaxxon would fit right in here.

[derv]

Just got back from the theater. I'm really not a hardcore Star Wars fan. My kids are the ones who connive me into emptying my pockets for these things. Unfortunately I'm basically lost with the story line. So, no spoilers from me. Though it does seem to have a familiarity to it- I'm sure I've seen some of these scenes before. Obviously Disney is bringing in fresh young faces to carry on the tradition. What more can I say, we had fun as a family. That's worth the admission right there.

[ritt]

Some fans are really going to be turned off by the quirkiness of this movie... but after thinking about it I'm glad that Disney picked an odd choice for a writer/director and then JUST STOOD BACK AND LET HIM DO HIS OWN THING. It's kinda the opposite of The Force Awakens* in that regard.



* Which I also loved, but that was a very corporate movie that played it's cards very close to the vest.

[Deleted]

Hated this one with the fire of a thousand hells, and apparently, I am not alone - only around 55% audience approval on Rotten Tomatoes, and similar sites.

---

SPOILERS AHEAD

---

So, this is less a movie than it is an 80s-style Japanese OVA: From the jedi tree to Admiral Hulda (?), the narrative evolves around the resolution of storylines that happened off-screen - in the associated sectors of the franchise, from comic books to video games and novels. The viewer is given virtually no introduction to those storylines, and the scenes and character relations feel almost completely out of place if you don't know the background.

That, by itself, would perhaps be forgivable if the movie's plot had a pair of legs to stand on its own. But it hasn't, and more than that, it gets the characters wrong:

Former boyscout Luke Skywalker lives a cynical hermit at the galaxy's most unreachable place, because, in a moment of weakness, he tried to murder (!) his nephew Ben/Kylo in his sleep (!) after he had found "darkness in him". - Because it somehow made sense to the creative team at Disney's that the guy who turned himself in to the d**n Sith Emperor of the Galaxy to bring Darth Vader back to the light side would fear a pimpled teenager.

Meanwhile, Leia, we learn through a scene that has already become an internet meme, has developed Jedi powers on her own that are at least on par with those of Obi-Wan, Yoda, and the rest of the old Republic's guard. Yet, she couldn't teach Rey, nor Kylo, because, otherwise, this story would make sense.

Yoda returns as a force ghost and shows that, as a being of the astral plane, he can still easily interact with the material world. The scene looks cute, but becomes extremely cringeworthy once you realize what this might mean for SW's internal logic.

Rey and Kylo, finally, get many iconic scenes, and are apparently shipped as the new romantic couple of the sequels, creepily mirroring another famous movie couple in their interactions. At the same time, Finn is relegated to a sideshow and sidequest character while obtaining a suitably Disney-ishly non-Caucasian love interest. How convenient that now we won't have to deal with black-white Jedi love! - Of the "good" characters, only the X-Wing pilot Poe gets a half-decent storyline, but that one, too, is watered down by stuff that is so obviously simply cheap writing that it's insulting to the audience. ("The Valiant Quest for a Spaceship Gas Station! Because Battlestar Galactica came out too long ago for teenage audiences to remember!")

Rey and Kylo's main mission is not so much to explore any of the fields that TFA left unanswered, but, simply, to unceremoniously kill Snoke, the BBEG of TFA. Snoke spends some time doing Emperor-style things in an Emperor-style way, until he gets killed off in what easily qualifies as the worst scene of the entire franchise. As to his backstory, motives, powers, and affiliations, we learn - absolutely nothing. Zilch. Whatever his relation to Kylo, the Jedi, or the Sith was, is not explored even in expository dialogue. He's just there as a stand-in, until Kylo (by the end of the movie) takes over the leadership of the First Order. Because, again, this franchise apparently really banks hard on people buying its secondary products, like novels and comic books.



*Takes a deep breath.*



Overall, this movie is, simply, a mess: Not because it, whatever, showed things that I personally didn't want to see, but because it takes the epic scope out of "Star Wars" - and brings nothing in to replace it. The main focus of the story is reduced to "the good guys'" general failure to communicate with one another, from Luke and Kylo's daddy issues to the Rebellion's apparent piss-poor crisis management response. The bad guys, meanwhile, are only defined by their resemblance to the OT row of villains; beyond that, the movie literally tells us nothing about what they represent. What remains is a no-story with a lot of admittedly beautiful Kodak moments, but with no substance at all. Even the prequels don't look too shabby any more, compared to it - because they, for all their flaws, still somehow manage to present an ensemble of complex character with elaborated personal motivations. The new movies retain the look of the franchise, yes, but after the second movie, the people presented in their story either remain card-boards - or, worse, they act almost completely out of character, and mainly so for cheap dramatic effects. It's well-directed, and well-crafted, but, at least to me, it has about the same viewing appeal as an overlong toy commercial. It's written by people who shouldn't touch a pen ever again.



RAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Not sure why this topic had me so fixated, but I needed to get this out of my system.

[Red Baron]

I liked the prequels a lot. I enjoy the detective/intrigue elements and the bad guys are loads of fun.

1. IV
2. II
3. III
4. I
5. Rogue One
6. V
7. VI
8. VII

Haven't seen VIII yet, and after how bad VII was, I likely won't.

[Zulgyan]

I hated, hated TLJ.

[howandwhy99]

I'm going to wait until "Last Jedi" is out of the theater to see it.

[Deleted]

This is fun. - No, it's not.

[scottenkainen]

Finally saw The Last Jedi last night. Loved it! Still not as good as The Force Awakens, though.

[Malcadon]

I just seen The Last Jedi, and I quite like it.

I'll try to keep this vague to not "spoil" anything.

While you already needed to have seen Force Awakens to know who's who and how they all get to where they are at by The Last Jedi, this movie is fairly self-contained, manages to resolves some major plot points, and ends without a lot of loose threads.

People (rightfully) complained that Force Awakens was a cheap rehash of A New Hope to the point of predictability, so this movie *must* be a cheap rehash of Empire Strikes Back. While there are similarities here and there (but not that much) this movie is its own animal. If you come to the theater with any expectation, the movie will swiftly blow it out the airlock!

Although, at first, the story comes a little scattered with the characters going off in their own direction, but it was an exercise in trying to show its theme form there individual prospective. The overall theme is about characters who are held back by expectation, failure and regret, and to let go of the past to embrace the future. Critics have been complaining about the "side-quest" part of the story, but it lays out some important background detail while also developing one of the main characters. All around, character development is good while offering a lot of great action.

The special effects are a good use of practical and CGI effects.

There are people who are annoyed by the humor the movie is going for and thought it was out-of-place in a Star Wars film. I do not see how, as Han Solo was always a cocky, wisecracking smart-ass; Yoda form Dagobah was a little unhinged form years of isolation; and R2-D2 & C3-PO are Laurel & Hardy in metal form. Not counting the mirthless prequel trilogy, humor is nothing new in Star Wars. I quite enjoyed it, as it gave it much heart. You might hear people talking about the Luke's "milk scene" (this is not really spooling anything) that seems "out of character", but it is a good, subtle call back to his roots.

This movie really expands the mythology and the nature of The Force in a profound and satisfying way.

Without being overly melodramatic, parts of the film will pull at your heart-strings. Mark Hamill's performance is good beyond measure.

Overall, this film is great!

While not as great as the original trilogy (the less said about the prequels, the better), it is *way* better than Force Awakens!


P.S.: I'm actually a little depressed, because I heard that J.J. Abrams — who did not write nor directed this movie — is returning to make episode IX.