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Post by xerxez on Jun 23, 2011 10:28:19 GMT -6
P.S., Also I was mistaken about the game era, in re-reading I see that the DM is to begin his game in September, 459. Still too early it would seem but much later than the year I initially posted.
Not sure where I got 416.
My apologies.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 23, 2011 10:06:18 GMT -6
You make a good point Falconer.
Aside from the Winter King (which as I remember also has some Pagan main characters), I have only ever read The OnceFuture King and Le Morte de Arthur and in both of these, as I recall, all the characters were Christian.
I read these in high school and in my excitement with the game I had forgotten that the traditional Arthur dates much later than the period in the game.
My comments above were about the period when Christianity was not the official religion of Britain and Ireland's people but was known and adhered to by some. However, as you have pointed out, this would have been before Arthur's time in the most popular books.
Aside from Malory and White, The Bibliography suggests starting by reading these books as well:
The Acts of King Arthor and His Noble Knights by John Steinbeck (Ballantine, 1976)
A History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffery of Monmouth (Dutton, 1958)
The Crystal Cave by Mary Stewart (Fawcett Crest, 1970)
Parzival by Wolfram von Eshenbach (Random, 1961)
Idylls of the King by Alred Lord Tennyson (New Amer. Libry. of World Lit., 1961)
The King Arthur Companion by Phyllis Ann Karr (Reston, 1983)
The Quest of the Holy Grail , unknown author, ( translated by PM Matarasso, Penguin, 1969).
It has a further suggestion for "the more intuitive players" and these are:
The Allegory of Love by CS Lewis (Oxford Univ., 1936
Arthur King of Britain by Richard Brengle (Meredith, 1964)
Arthur's Britain by Leslie Alcock (Pelican, 1971)
Arthurian Literature in the Middle Ages by R.S. Loomis(Oxford Univ., 1959)
From Ritual to Romance by Jessie Weston (Anchor 1957)
Mythology by C.K. Hillegas (Cliff Notes, 1973)
I was researching this on the net and it seems the earliest accounts of Arthur put him in the late sixth century at the earliest.
Perhaps some of the historical books in the second list provide evidence for earlier origins for the Arthur myth.
I have actually attempted to contact the game author but have been unsuccessful as yet.
I would find it incredible if the designers had not done their homework as they have compiled a list of 300 personages from Arthurian literature, as well as the names of historical or legendary Kingdoms and Provinces and an illustrated appendice that is a very well researched primer on basic heraldry.
I still intend to go with it! I have never believed Arthur existed anyway so a 5th century Arthur is as good for my game purposes as a later Arthur.
Thanks for the insight.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 22, 2011 23:45:46 GMT -6
Falconer
There actually was a great deal of conflict between Christianity and Paganism in the period.
But the game deals with a time when people had a chance to assimilate this all and let most of the conflict be in their own thoughts...if there was any conflict...instead of on a battlefield or through Inquisitions. People chose Paganism or Christianity as spiritual teachings on their own merits. I'm sure that for rulers it always carried political considerations and religion of any sort was always a key factor in politics--it's not without reason the game of chess includes the Bishop piece who has his own unique powers....
In Hidden Kingdom, though, it is the Pagan view that is transcendent in the kingdoms--the Pagan Order is very much alive, and Camelot is not there to convert them to Christianity but to unify Britain. I believe many of the knights at the Round Table in the game are Pagan.
However, the game does not really pit Christians against Pagans.
It lets the individual player run his character according to the personal world view he has chosen, merely his own code reflected in his Faith, Power, and Chivalry ratings when he lives up to or doesn't live up the alignment.
In the words of one review, the game "polarizes and glorifies certain elements of both world views, Christian and Pagan" and this is a balance very well struck.
I am certain that very opinionated Pagans or Christians could find fault with how their world view is portrayed in the game introduction (there is a lengthy discussion of this in the pertinent rules section) but to me that would be pointless debate since the game does not try to convert anyone to anything and is very well researched for the period.
Extreme fundamentalists would be upset that you can play a Pagan character, and that magic works, and that anything good was said about Pagans or Paganism at all.
Dogmatic Pagans would criticize that Miracles work (implying the existence of the Christian God) and that bad effects can happen to Pagans for using magic but not to Christians for using miracles, and that anything good was said about Christians or Christianity at all.
In fact, I have taken a look here and there at some magical texts written by Pagans and infidels and as minute as my "studies" were, one thing that I got from most of them is that trying to manipulate the forces of nature and the cosmos can be dangerous and have unintended negative consequences, so I don't think the game's portrayal of magic use is at all askew.
"The Winter King" by Bernard Cornwell was an enlightening fictio read regarding these conflicts though its been over ten years I think since I read it and I don't recall if Arthur was Christian or Pagan in it.
The history of the English people by the monk "Bede" is biased of course but also very informative about the subject. I enjoyed it, it wasn't dry at all, Bede is quite a character but of course the miracles were a bit ridiculous even to a Christian.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 22, 2011 20:07:44 GMT -6
Very good idea Bestial, some great tables here too. I think this would really help someone new to the game who is unsure how to run their character or role play in general--gives them something concrete to work from. I've noticed a few times that the person i gave background material to made it much more of a focus than even I had intended--to the betterment of the game.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 22, 2011 20:01:50 GMT -6
A further thought about Hidden Kingdom that I posted as a response comment on my blog.
(I'm too lazy to re-type it)
Honestly, the core mechanic would work for any rpg or setting if one took the time to create the Map. A game of Middle earth based on this system would be tremendous, though the work involved would be staggering! Going through and statting out every single mentioned character, the hexing of the Maps, placing of castles towns and villages--wow!
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Post by xerxez on Jun 22, 2011 6:23:22 GMT -6
Note to Finarvyn. I wrote this article about D&D and hopefully it is appropriate for the forum and this spot in particular. If not, move it where you wish or remove it altogether (or PM me and I will do so). I was really hoping to generate discussion with it!
Xerxez
Dungeons and Dragons: The Once and Future King
Anyone and everyone who plays pen and paper role playing games knows: the Grandfather of All Role Playing Games is Dungeons and Dragons. It spawned the entire genre…and this really isn't up for debate.
How did it all start?
Well, some dyed in the wool war gamers, used to pitching historical medieval battles with table top miniatures , dice and maps eventually came up with the idea of basing a fantasy character upon a single miniature figurine, sending that character into an underground maze full of monsters, tricks, traps, puzzles and fantastic treasures, and developing the character's powers, skills and abilities over a period of many sessions of play. The more powerful the character became, well, the more challenging the mazes and monsters that the character faced, ad infinitum.
And that, more or less, is how role playing games were born.
Since those early days of the first role playing games of the mid seventies to early eighties, others picked up the gauntlet, and there followed a veritable multitude of role-playing game genres and styles. And in this ever increasing garden of game design, one idea seemed prevalent: This Game is a new horizon in role-playing, a fresh start in the evolution of RPG history. This Game takes the idea begun with Dungeons and Dragons and carries it to a whole new level, undreamt by RPG enthusiasts hitherto. This Game is better.
And to be fair, some really awesome games were conceived. Aftermath. Bushido. Traveler. Chivalry and Sorcery. Gamma World. Boot Hill. And many more than can be listed. Some of these games were so innovative, so creative, and so well produced that it is safe to say that they will never be forgotten in the history of the RPG hobby scene. Anyone who even casually delves into this hobby will discover these names, and perceive that they were (are) indeed evolutionary progressions in the past time called RPG's. They allowed people to simulate planetary exploration, post apocalyptic survival, and modern warfare…far different frontiers than the stone passageways and poison needle-trapped locks of Ye Olde Dungeon.
Having said this, please allow me to tell you why no game, either created now or in the future, will ever displace D&D.
D&D is, and will always be, the Once and Future King of Role Playing Games.
That's right--I am stating, unequivocally and without apology, that this old retro game idea of sending quasi-medieval fantasy characters into an underground catacombs system and battling monsters of Western European mythological conception as they search for gold, glory and magical swords will never be outdone or matched by any game system created.
The dungeon motif, that of the subterranean maze filled with perilous tricks, traps and monsters, will always be the touchstone of any role playing system ever conceived. And anyone who abandons it in search of more immersive role playing, new frontiers, or non-medieval trappings may have some great games--but they will not have the BEST games!
Why , you ask, is this? Why do I assert such a prejudiced opinion…and this at the risk of sounding like an arrogant, ignorant and outdated oaf? There are three main reasons.
Please permit me to expound upon the virtues of the good old fashioned DUNGEON!
Reason Number one: The Dungeon is linear.
A lot of games allow you to role-play--they permit you to make any kind of character you want from any era or genre that you can conceive. These games pride themselves on their open-ended systems and patterns of play. They have transcended the Dungeon. They are a giant sand box, just waiting for you to explore any path, any non-player character , any idea, that you, as a player, can imagine. The sky is the limit, their designers declare.
This seeming strength is, in fact, their very weakness.
A Dungeon Master (DM) who has sat down and invested the time in mapping out and populating an underground Maze, embellishing it with an attendant "back-story ", has not created an endless and open environment.
He or she has created a very certain and specific locale in time and space within the fantasy milieu.
This locale has very detailed geographic constraints--and these constraints are the actual perimeters of the Dungeon Map itself. That is, the perimeters of the map and the imagination of the individual DM who designed it.
In a linear environment such as this, the fantasy characters cannot go anywhere they wish.
They can only go where the corridors, chambers and passages of the Dungeon allow them to go!
There is a Map--and a very detailed Dungeon Key.
What lies beyond yonder door is not a mere matter of the DM's whim or a roll of the dice--rather, there is a pre-planned encounter or a lovingly crafted trick, trap or puzzle that the DM thought up or else borrowed from an existing source of fantasy literature or films. And because there is a pre-planned environment, this means that the solution or answer to the challenge at hand is not simply a matter of the DM saying…"Eh…I guess so. That will work."
Rather, there is an actual and official key to the room/encounter/challenge/trap/puzzle! It is already set in motion when the DM mapped out and designed the dungeon.
You either figure it out or you don't.
The mythological guardian at the gate which asks you a riddle is wanting a specific answer.
The secret door in the passage wall which conceals a trove of treasure and magic items is opened by a specific trigger mechanism or password.
The magical fountain in the courtyard has specific magical properties and limitations which have already been determined by the DM.
You, as the player, must figure this out!
In a very real sense, players of the original Dungeon Adventure motif are collectively pitting their wits against those of the DM.
The DM has thought out the Dungeon--the players have to discern his thoughts by logic and careful consideration!
This is why not everyone can actually be an effective DM…it isn't easy to come up with tricks, traps, puzzles, and monsters good enough to outwit or at least challenge a party as smart as your players! And in games with less well constructed environs, players can often feel as though the DM is simply "winging it."
When players go into a situation knowing that there is a pre-determined goal in mind by a power higher than their characters(The DM), and that this goal has already been charted for them in the Dungeon Map and Key, they will be alert, deductive and really looking for a specific solution. When they actually uncover this solution , the DM cannot deny them their just reward--victory over the situation at hand!
They have matched the DM in his game of wits--and having beaten or at least matched him or her, they are rewarded. If they don't figure it out, they lose the reward.
It's that simple.
This not a "make it up as you go along" sort of challenge-- that kind of game would be like boxed puzzle with incomplete or ill-defined pieces.
Rather, the pieces from the puzzle box are all on the table--the DM already designed them and laid them out. Now it’s simply up to the players to gather and connect the right pieces! A DM cannot add or take away a piece of the puzzle--the puzzle was finished when the Dungeon Key was completed.
As an impartial judge, the DM must relent when his riddle has been unclasped. After all, he wrote it down that way!
I guess this is what I'm trying to say: perhaps the Dungeon Adventure doesn't allow you to go anywhere and do anything , but the personal reward of overcoming a linear and pre-planned playing environment, and reaping the attendant character progression and enrichment, is beyond compare with so-called "Open ended" RPG game styles. If the DM just makes up your game as she or her goes along, then really, in game terms it's like mental sparring with God…what is the point? Since the DM creates the game environment, whatever happens is six one way, half a dozen the other. The deck is stacked! It's a game that at its most fundamental level becomes just an elaborate conversation.
Please note: linear play does not mean limitations on possibility. It just means order and structure, the key to having a good time in any game venue. And nothing affords order and structure like a well planned Dungeon! The very physical confines of the Dungeon Map itself make this so.
Number Two: The Dungeon Offers the Best Role Playing.
In so called "Sandbox" or "Open Ended" role playing games, role playing itself is the most touted mechanic. After all, it is claimed: In an endless and open environment, are there not a whole litany of characters, monsters, heroes and villains that a player can role play with and/or against? In the Dungeon, you are limited to the denizens of the Maze. Why, heck, if you can traverse this city or that hamlet, this metropolis or that planet, there is no end to role playing possibilities. Isn't this the ultimate of role playing, far superior to the old Dungeon pattern with its linear constraints?
In a word, no. It isn't necessarily superior. In fact, it's usually not.
Why?
Because often, in such an open ended environment, players around the table are mostly engaging in role playing with one other player--the DM.
He or she is, after all, playing the role of all the other beings in the game milieu. And remember, the DM already knows or can make up on the spot what these other beings will do, think, or desire in any given situation. Again, the deck is stacked.
Oh, he or she can portray different personalities, claim different motivations and speak in different accents, true. Very clever or creative DM's can be quite entertaining in the role playing venue. But in the end, it is only the DM. Each character they create is really only an extension of the DM's personality, and the players cannot fully connect or engage with these characters on a real level because they possess what the player characters do not possess…that is, omnipotence. Omnipotence concerning the ultimate end of a given encounter, and omnipotence concerning the plot of the over-all adventure. During it all, players are looking not most at eachother but at the DM.
I am convinced that the best and most rewarding role playing dynamic at a gaming table takes place not between a DM and his players but between player and player. The DM, in my humble opinion, should actually be out of the way and carefully hidden behind his creation--the Dungeon---while the player to player dynamic takes front and center.
I will state right now that I don't think the voice of the DM should be the most heard voice at the gaming table. The DM's personality and unique style will be apprehended easily enough through the Dungeon design, without him or her saying anymore than is needed to referee the game. Rather, the features of the Maze should be related in a simple fashion and the dynamic of the players in a party should then come to the forefront.
And in my opinion, there are few game environments equal to the old fashioned Dungeon format for bringing this dynamic out. This is so for several reasons.
As has already been stated, a Dungeon adventure with a drawn out Map and detailed Key is a linear adventure pattern that matches player wits against the mind of the DM. Thus, there is a camaraderie between the players as they try to solve this giant puzzle that faces them. Such a camaraderie cannot exist in any meaningful sense between a player's character and characters created by the DM because as we have said, the DM's characters are omnipotent, no matter how hard he tries to make them not be.
Players' characters, on the other hand, have shared stakes--they aren't a set of stats that a DM concocted off the cuff or with the overall plot of his adventure in mind. They are lovingly crafted and detailed fantasy personas with goals and aspirations dreamt up by the players who made them…characters who, in a very real sense, can cease to exist if they don't overcome the Maze designed by the DM. This should create a great deal of team spirit, which, in turn, will lead to good role playing.
As these characters become familiar from adventure to adventure, the players get to know each others' game personas as they develop during a sustained campaign, whereas the non-player characters of the DM's creation usually change in each scenario. And while this takes place in any kind of role playing game, not just in the old Dungeon format, D&D characters are unique in this very important aspect: the old class system, so often disparaged as unimaginative and constraining for the player, tailored a party to reflect the environment of the Dungeon itself.
If the Dungeon contains a set of premises to be explored by the individual DM as a method of challenging his players (Trap, Trick, Puzzle, Monster, Magic Item, Treasure, etc.), then the old fashioned D&D characters had talents and abilities perfectly suited for such a Maze.
If Dungeons house the undead, players have clerics!
If the labyrinth is filled with locked doors and treasure chests or dangerous traps, players have thieves!
If Dungeons are dark and filled with perilous stone works, there are elves who can see in the blackness, dwarves that can detect new construction and sloping passages, and Halflings who can hide in the dark from monsters. The uses of fighters and magic users in such an environment is self explanatory.
The sort of role playing that arise from the mixture such character templates is, admittedly, simple…and this is is its strength.
Certainly, pre-conceived roles can be limiting to a personality, whether that personality is a real life personality or one invented for a fantasy role playing game.
However, well defined and understood roles can also make things run smoother and easier, allowing a party to have very strong expectations towards each other, and allowing the individual player to have a strong sense of where his or her character fits into the ecology of the Dungeon and the party chemistry.
When the party comes to a locked door, Antha the Thief knows that she is up!
If a magical scroll is discovered, then Mendolas the Mage takes front and center!
When orcs come barreling down a passage way, everyone looks to Olaf the Fighter or Skarl the Dwarf!
This isn't cookie cutter character building as many have asserted. The individual personalities of the characters can be as diverse and nuanced as the players who create them.
The class system simply gives the average person who comes to a gaming table a reasonable set of criteria for the sort of character he or she is going to play as relates to the place where said play will take place--the Dungeon!
Reason Number Three: The Dungeon strikes a chord in our dream-consciousness.
There is something about the most ancient myths and dream symbols of Man that touches something deep in his imagination. Who knows when someone first conceived of a goblin, or an elf, or a dragon. The fact is, it was very long ago, and yet, the idea of such beings still resonates today with nearly every person alive …and this is whether or not that person has even a smattering of interest in role playing games. These denizens of myth represent something very deep within the human psyche---call it racial memories, call it childhood conditioning, call it whatever you want, but fairy tales, in the most traditional sense of the word, have remained a part of us no matter how technological we become.
A D&D game brings these fairy tales to life and makes us an active part of them, if only for a little while. The idea of an underground lair guarded by a fierce monster and hiding a fabulous treasure or boon is old as mankind. When we play such games, we are walking in the dim, twilight regions between the waking world and the dreams of childhood. And while I know some will assert that the darkness and mysteries of space or the streets of a modern city can contain this same mythological power, and that role playing games which utilize such scenes are just as engaging as a fantasy setting, I must differ.
That Dragons and Demons appear in much the Apocalyptic religious literature of the world and have remained potent symbols of evil and/or power to the present should attest to their impact on human consciousness. A Dragon is a motif. A Knight or a Wizard is a motif. I would argue that a spaceship or a superhero is less so. A spaceman hero hearkens back to the earlier motif that imbues him with his heroic qualities.
In a good game of D&D, the stuff of man's most powerful and enduring myths becomes the material of the character's adventures. This is why such material seldom becomes old, or, if it does, it takes a long time. And even when it does become old, you can be fairly certain that the sense of wonderment will never entirely leave you--because it is a connection to our own past.
In Conclusion
For all these reasons, I believe that the Dungeon remains the gold standard of the role playing game. I fully realize this is actually simply one man's opinion, and that if a person enjoys any game better than D&D, than as far as that person is concerned, his game is "better". For me, while there are many other wonderful games to be enjoyed, they will never be better than the cloth from which they were cut.
Long live D&D!
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Post by xerxez on Jun 22, 2011 3:51:14 GMT -6
Essential Elements of Hidden Kingdom. How Does One Play?There is a giant Map of Britain and Ireland, 459 A.D. It is divided by numbered hexes, and the hexes are marked for terrain type, major political boundaries, and smaller provinces. Every single town, chapel, monastery, and individual castle of the game world is marked on the Map. Further, a source book tells the name of every King, Queen, Knight and Lady who inhabits every single castle on the Map. There are 300 of these castles and the Lord or Lady of each is playable as a character in the game. These are the only characters one can have in the game, and they are all drawn from Classical Arthurian Romantic literature. They are of four sorts,: Chivalrous Christians, Renunciate Christians, Chivalrous Pagans, and Powerlord Pagans. In most cases, the characters world view is already listed but some are open. The Four Alignments and Character TypesThese four character types represent the four alignments of the game, a major focus of play. Some of these characters come to the table with alliances, enmities, family, spouses and paramours as well as, in a few cases, special abilities. Actual PlayWhen you have chosen a character, you begin on the map where the book states that your castle is. The Game Book also has a listing of the number of peasants and militia in each province, as well as its monthly food production and the amount of gold owned by each and every king. You leave your castle and travel the map to go upon quests. These quests can be small and seemingly mundane in nature, such as traveling to another castle to attend a jousting tourney, or some great adventure such as to seek a lost relic. You could simply be traveling to meet up with the other players if they are your friends or allies so you can all go on an adventure together. A game begins on a certain day of a certain month and generally each game will encompass the evens within a month. You can manage your province as well as your individual character by announcing what you want to do to the Game Guide--he also has special tables and it possible for various Acts of God to occur in month that could weaken your kingdom/province. The game guide must keep track of a calendar and notes of character actions that will affect them later in the game. There is a Harvest month that increases provincial holdings once per year, trade with other players or non-player Kings and Queens can also increase it. There are movement rates for the Map that depend on your means of travel and the terrain. Each "empty" hex you enter (no town, chapel, castle or monastery) has a chance of a random encounter. These encounters can be with Men-Types, Faery-Types, Monster-Types, or Special Situations. encounters can become quests, be role playing encounters, or become dangerous battles or all three. The Game Book has a long list of Special Situations. If you enter a castle hex, there is a table for castle reactions to you, modified by any special allainces, family, or enemies your character might start with or incur later in the game. Whether a castle is hospitable to you, hostile, indifferent or hosting a tournament are the possible outcomes. In a town or castle hex or with merchant encounters in the wilderness, you can trade and buy and sell goods. Monasteries are like hospitals and if you reach one's hex you can get healing. The Four Modes of Play
There are 4 Modes of play, look at each at a degree of magnification of the time and events taking place. 1st Mode is traveling the map and/or taking care of provincial affairs. 2nd Mode is when an encounter occurs and you get into role playing. 3rd Mode is actual individual combat during an encounter, or sundry options a character can undertake in a town, monastery, chapel, or castle or supernatural intervention such as the use of magic or petitioning for miracles. 4th mode is large scale mass combat, tournaments, or the traditional role playing type adventure of a mapped out ruin or dungeon. These modes can change as a result of the focus of the players and game guide or by chance through how play unfolds. The game can have any level of complexity or simplicity desired. While all role playing games have these modes, very few have such a detailed and comprehensive map with peasant populations and production, as well as castle inhabitants already detailed and pre-built with character dynamics that depend on a players character choice. A great deal of the GM's world building work is already done. Role Playing and Game Objectives
How you play your character depends on the Alignments we have mentioned, and inded, this, alignment, is a central focus of the game. The premise of the game setting is that the Pagan Order is still preeminent in the Isles but Arthur has become King of Logres and he is a Christian but rather than seeking to establish Christianity he seeks to unite the Pagans and Christians of the Isles to repel all outer threats. The new order he proposes to achieve this unification is an order based on Chivalry. Chivalrous Christians and Chivalrous Pagans have accepted the new order and promote it by their behavior actions and goals. Renunciate Christians reject this compromise and serve only pure spiritual Christianity. Powerlord Pagans likewise reject the new order and seek only their own power and advancement in the tradition of the warlord or the Pagan sorceress. Nothing in these world views dictates that those of opposing alignments are necessarily enemies or must attack or oppose each other. Players of widely divergent alignments can all quest together if desired if there is a logical common end in mind . There is a Faith Rating, a Power Rating, and a Chivalry rating. The first is the only concern of Renunciate Christians, while Powerlord Pagans care only about their Power Rating. Chivalrous Christians and Chivalrous Pagans are concerned with their Chivalry Rating, but Chivalrous Christians must pay some heed to their faith rating as well. There is a detailed list of behaviors and actions possible within the game that can give bonuses or penalties to these ratings, depending on character actions. The object of the game is to have the highest rating possible in the score that matters to your characters alignment . Magic and Miracles
Supernatural intervention can come in the form of Magic or Miracles. Only Pagan characters can use magic. There are five levels of magical power and a small but well rounded list of spells under each level. Using magic has a percentage chance of being successful, the lower level the spell the greater chance it will work. However, magic also has a chance to unleash powerful negative forces in a character's life--the chance this will happen, and how serious these effects are, goes up with the level of the magic being used. If successful, spells are instantaneous and grant such powers as invisibility, flying, immunity to certain effects, and changing one's appearance, as examples. Since the Code of chivalry holds that such unfair advantages as magic violate its focus on manly physical prowess and courage, male Chivalrous Pagans who use magic incur penalties against their Chivalry Rating. Miracles can only be sought by Christians. Miracles are healing, protective, restorative and guiding in nature. They come as a result of prayer or through encounters with very spiritual beings such as hermits, recluses, or angelic beings. Prayers are aided by fasting and being near chapels, and the power of a miracle is more comprehensive the less selfish is its petition. Game Mechanics
Complex as the game sounds, actual mechanics are very simple. Here is a sample Knight: Name: Bertilak
Alignment: Pagan Chivalrous
Kingdom (Province): Gore (Riding)
Blazon: Ver, a battle axe in bend argent (note: heraldic terms defiend in the rules and illustrated).
Born: 10/397
Leadership Bonus: 0
Weight: 204 Swordplay Roll: 11 Offensive Bonus: +3 Defensive Bonus:-2
Unseating Number (Jousting Bonus): 16 (0)
Special Ability: By the word of Queen Morgan Le fay, can become the Great Green Knight for one day per month, whereby he becomes green in color and all wounds taken are healed at the end of the day, even fatal wounds, and none cause him to cease functioning.
And a sample Lady Character: Name: Queen Morgan Le Fay of Gore
Alignment: Pagan Powerlord
Home Castle: Maidens Castle in Gore
Blazon: per fess Or and azure, in chief a dragon rampant sable and in base a ram's face Or.
Born: 9/395
Weight: 124
Beauty Rating: 7
Family: Husband, king Uriens; Son, Uwayne le Blanchmains; Mother, Dame Igraine; Sisters, Queen Elaine and morgause;Half-brother, king arthur.
Paramour: Accolon and Hemyson.
Enemies: King Arthur
Special Ability: (+30%) Success probability on casting spells. Special Beginning Equipment: The Drinking horn of Chastity, Morgan's Mantle.
I have picked two examples of the more colorful Characters, but most characters have no special abilities like these do. But nor do they have the enemies or weaknesses of these two! Note that Bertilak has a no Leadership Bonus. This is a weakness--some Knights have no special powers but have a better Swordplay Roll, a Leadership Bonus, Weigh more, etc. All Women have a base Swordplay Roll of 17, but they also have an attribute that male characters do not have, a Beauty rating, which can be used to compel characters (players and non player characters) to grant requests to them or gain service! How simple is the combat mechanic in this game? The Sword Play Roll is a character's base chance to hit with a d20, modified by the size of the weapon they are using, larger weapons being harder to wield but doing more damage. Weight is the equivalent of Hit Points. Armor is handled uniquely--there is a hit location chart and if you are not wearing armor, there is an add on to your damage. Very Customized Game Possibilities
There are many ways Hidden Kingdom can be played. It is designed to be played without miniatures but it can adopt miniatures as well, and there is actually potential for a strong war gaming element if one desires. It can be run like a traditional role playing game (4th Mode) and each person can become the game guide once they design a maze, dungeon, Ruin or what have you. The Kingdom and provincial building aspects (trade, politics, etc) can be played to a degree desired or largely ignored. If politics becomes a focus (beyond alignment), the depth and degree of it will depend on the gaming group's grasp of such matters as little historical material is given, though a wide bibliography is recommended and can only improve play. If one wishes, players can oppose each other and work against each other to varying degrees, not only against non-player characters There is very ample opportunity for role playing and the social factor for the game is high. While a group should be small until the rules are mastered, there is no reason why a very large number (10-12 players) could not be involved once there are people present who are able to help fellow players resolve their turns, such as undertake combats, while the GG is conducting the rest of the game . House rules could be introduced, such as making Stonehenge give power to Pagan Characters the way Chapels give power to Christians. There may also be a way to make the Alignment Ratings more relevant to actual play in the game (like increasing chances in miracles and encounters), since as is they are really just a score. I don't want to mess with the rules for awhile though. I intend to keep a tally of my players ratings while they play and the player with the highest score becomes Lord or Lady of the Chalice, a special drinking cup they hold while occupying the position. L.O.t.C. will have certain very limited but significant veto and decision making powers during the game, such as what Mode to close a session out with (this can affect someone's character if they don't want a lot of time to pass I the game world before the next adventure) and other things. Each player could also bring some small tribute (a candy bar or the like) and whoever gets L.O.t.C. gets the loot at the end. There are other things one could do to make for a unique game, such as the use of props, themed music, or watching the occasional film and feasting and making merry instead of paying the game. Or, you could just play the game without such nonsense. In short, if you come to the table looking specifically for what you get out of D&D or even ballpark, you will likely not find Hidden Kingdom to your taste at all as the flavor could not be more different. But if you like Arthurian style games, and a different kind of feel and tension in the game from the unique alignment system and the ever changing 4 modes of play, you will greatly enjoy it! Xerxez Note: For additional review and other images of the game, visit here: rpggeek.com/rpgitem/56019/hidden-kingdom
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Post by xerxez on Jun 20, 2011 19:03:25 GMT -6
Aldarron
I figured as much. It shows in his game focus--this is a very cool game!
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Post by xerxez on Jun 20, 2011 18:59:00 GMT -6
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Post by xerxez on Jun 20, 2011 18:58:01 GMT -6
Kesh
My copy arrived today!!!
Brand new, in shrink wrap for 70.99 including shipping and handling.
There was a copy on Amazon, and I think they may have more as the last time I checked it was still listed.
It was well worth every penny!
Am reading it now. My wife, who normally has 0 interest in these kind of games, seemed interested in it and said she may play.
It has a very spiritual flavor, something I did remember.
Yet it seems to highlight the best elements in Christian and Pagan beliefs.
Very authentic, very well researched.
I am looking forward to running/playing this!
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Post by xerxez on Jun 19, 2011 18:22:43 GMT -6
P.S. I also like that character advancement is largely a matter of actual social progression within the feudal structure.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 19, 2011 18:21:21 GMT -6
I stayed up reading these rules again last night and I printed up the most necessary pages and tables as I definitely intend to run some games.
And I'm thinking about doing something I've never done before, using a historical setting--Northern Europe, allowing for Christian and Pagan characters.
Arneson's grasp of medieval cosmology and culture is very impressive to me. One of his magic items is a holy crucifix which of course has powers over Vampires and faery beings. His treatment of Vampires (Lamias) is very different--this is the vampire mostly of Slavic legend and not Hollywood.
The game would lend itself very well to a pure fantasy setting as well but it is true enough to medieval customs and social structure, as well as "real" mythology that I think it possible to go the route of a historical game. I am aware that Pendragon is probably the better system for a strictly historical game but that would be an altogether different flavoring than AIF.
It will be difficult to choose the exact time period--feudalism needs to be the norm, so post Constantine-- and the church needs to be prevalent enough to be a unifying force. But the whole of Europe should still be broken up enough to remain the dark and mysterious world of the pagans, letting the Celtic and Germanic fairy tales come to life.
Looks like I began studying medieval history just in time.
No hobbits of course. Elves are diminutive creatures closely related to dwarves, and are generally hostile to Man or at the very least cruelly indifferent. They dwell permanently in a separate realm called Faery where a single day there is a hundred years of human time--yet some do live on the Material Plane. Like all the faery races (Elf, Troll, Dwarf and "Faeries proper", quotations mine) they cannot go about or fight well in sunlight, they are repelled by Christian symbols and rituals, and iron weapons do double damage to them, Dwarves excepted from the latter clause only. However, all including trolls are powerful magic users who use songs and runes instead of ritual spells.
As for character types, there is no class system and not really much of a highly developed skill system either. Instead there is an educational system of character development with very generalized skills (including magical training) and you develop your character along the lines you wish, gaining XP and further ability through using your desired craft, be it swords or sorcery, or, if you wish, as some other occupation. If you wanted a thief type character, you would simply develop those abilities and play as a theif, getting better and better. There is no ranger class, but you can have the skills of a forester/huntsman.
I think it allows for alot of unique and original character ideas, especially when you allow for characters choosing their own historical period race and culture.
Anyone with ideas for such a campaign, especially as related to history, please share.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 18, 2011 21:39:11 GMT -6
I know I'm reviving a very old thread here but I must say that I just read the rules of AIF entirely through and I am impressed with a very beautiful and well thought out game.
Arneson's perspective on elves and on the divisions of faery and human magic are exactly as I would prefer to run a campaign--not very Tolkienish at all, and much more in the Germanic fairy tale traditions.
I think this is a rules set that would work well with any fantasy setting or even a "real world" Dark Ages Northern European setting.
I love his treatment of magic spells and points, and the section on the personalities and characteristics of Dragons is absolutely phenomenal.
I will be printing this up, and I can see using this for an upcoming campaign.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 18, 2011 14:51:40 GMT -6
I'm going to attempt to recount our D&D group's adventures in serial story form at my blog. If anyone likes to read those things (I know I do on other people's blogs) feel free to read along. I am open to criticism as well as I like to improve my meager writing skills when given the chance. Thanks. jennerak.blogspot.com/2011/06/serial-story-of-our-d-adventures.html
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Post by xerxez on Jun 16, 2011 16:23:39 GMT -6
Kesher, you got it! Thanks so much. I actually found it a while after this post by going through a database of evry published game--when i got to "H" Hidden Kingdom just rang a bell, and as soon as I saw it online, I recognized it. Thanks though. As I remember, its nothing at all like D&D or even a role playing game in general.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 15, 2011 4:21:44 GMT -6
Okay, this is a long shot because I have very little information to give and I doubt anyone can help me.
But here goes.
When I was in Hawaii back in 88-89, I saw some really awesome game shops and picked up a great deal of obscure gaming material.
One thing I really liked but let go of when I left was a medieval role playing game.
I can't for the life of me recall the name of the game or the publisher.
The game was from the years I have mentioned, maybe a year or two earlier.
It was largely a historical role playing game with some mythological elements. It came in a large, very plain rectangular gray box coated with some kind of rough heavy textured cardboard--not big on illustrations as I remember. The inside of the box, was I believe, covered with blue paper.
The rules pages were loose leaf and had a ringed binder you clipped them into.
The illustrations were highly stylized, mostly silhouettes, of knights, castles, princesses, etc.
The font was like the old type writers. The print was rather small.
I believe it ran on a d6 system and characters could play a knight or a magician for the most part but it allowed for introducing other character types if you wanted.
I do remember a prominent illustration of a magic fountain somewhere in the book or on the box, and maybe a logo of a knight for the game company.
Does any of this ring a bell with anyone at all? I don't remember a whole lot about the game except that I was very intrigued by it and never got to understanding how it was played. I am 100% certain it was not from any of the major gaming companies usually associated with the older games--well, make that 80% certain...
Anyway, its been in my thoughts a few times in the last couple months and I'd like to find it again.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Post by xerxez on Jun 6, 2011 0:53:20 GMT -6
The articles on this thread and ensuing comments are some of the best stuff I have read. I will be using a lot of it! Many thanks. I decided to use the Outdoor Survival Board for my Holmes game as others have suggested. It's working out great so far, and I have found a ton of useful information on how to scale and expand the map on this board. I posted my revised and edited map on my blog. jennerak.blogspot.com/
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Post by xerxez on May 21, 2011 22:31:46 GMT -6
Geoffery
I've been considering this for awhile now, if only for an occasional game.
I think you could just run them with the stats they have in the MM's and the Folio.
I don't think it's so much a question of limiting the PC's as evenly matching them with foes of a HD and abilities that is commensurate to what they have chosen.
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Post by xerxez on Apr 23, 2011 17:26:17 GMT -6
I agree with Dubeers.
The prototypical fantasy roleplaying elf is drawn from the legends of the Fey and their magic is an innate, natural ability because elves are themselves magical in nature.
Creates a few problems for roleplaying games--i.e., what about half elves, spell books, etc. But they are definitely magical beings in themselves.
Almost makes one believe they should have a different spell list.
But as it is, I don't see elves using spellbooks or studying magic the way humans do.
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Post by xerxez on Apr 3, 2011 22:26:58 GMT -6
Bergmann's work is grounded not in Fantasy or Sword & Sorcery, of course, but Greek drama. Thus, its highly derivative and not innovative in the slightest. In his work there's a lot of emphasis on the concept of sacrifice, whether human or with a surrogate. I will check out your Dreyer recommend, but I must say that all theatre and drama could be considered derivative of the Greek form--since that's where drama began. I'm not sure the concept can be innovated upon much at all. Sword and Sorcery is literature, and does not make for the most powerful sort of drama for the reason that as much as we love it, and as much as we wish we could an would, none of us will ever seek out and find a magical sword. We will not slay a dragon. We will not command an army of elves or dwarves. But we will lose a loved one. We will have our heart broken. We will sin (or you can put "fail" if you dislike a moral tone), be wronged, see love die, and se it born, etc. Drama speaks to all these experiences and Bergman's films deal with all of them very nicely. Hour of the Wolf was his only horror film and the supernatural elements in it are superb.
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Post by xerxez on Apr 3, 2011 5:54:26 GMT -6
Thanks Fin--very true!
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Post by xerxez on Apr 3, 2011 1:09:41 GMT -6
Good stuff. I have thought much about volunteering to run some games at a hospital for kids or veterans in a vets center, problem being some religious paranoia for games like D&D in the state where I reside.
I think the key is to have a lot of interesting playing pieces (miniatures or larger, evocative and well crafted art works) and have few if any set rules--heck, just grab a set of percentile dice and say that high rolls are bad and lows rolls good--and then design an adventure around your playing pieces.
Thanks Kesher.
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Post by xerxez on Apr 1, 2011 11:56:10 GMT -6
Just saw this thread.
I must say, I don't think any one work is completely ambient of D&D as it is an amalgamation of so many different modern authors, fairy tales, and world mythology.
If forced to pick, though, I would agree with Geoffrey that the particular tome by Fritz Lieber he mentions is the most evocative of D&D as it has normally been played.
Piers Anthony's "Xanth" works come to mind as well.
Problem with Lieber's works is, as I remember, no demi-humans or humanoids. If one added Elves, Dwarves and Halflings and the goblinoid races to Newhon you would have the essential D&D setting.
Middle earth is defiintely an alloy of the D&D compound but the books would not convey any sense of the game at all in my opinion.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 30, 2011 5:11:48 GMT -6
Thanks! These are tremendous.
The Derinkuyu system is amazing! A true mega-dungeon with soft rounded edges--an awesome aesthetic.
It's got me inspired already--perhaps I can find a book with detailed maps.
Here is a video for it on YouTube.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 29, 2011 7:06:47 GMT -6
Paint the words "Danger--Keep Out" on the door.
Someone will eventually figure out how to get it open.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 29, 2011 3:14:15 GMT -6
The older games have spirit I see in few later systems.
There is a passion and experimental excitement born from coming off the first gamers' tables and love of the game and fantasy was the energizing element, not $$S.
It's true the early game writers wanted to make a living from it and some got lucky and saw some real cash but they really put heart and soul into the products.
The artists are a good example. Sutherland was a very good artist--but to be honest, many games coming off the shelf today have better artwork if artist ability is the yardstick.
But Sutherland's art captured the feel and spirit of D&D. I seldom get that vibe from most game art today.
And truth be told, there is something charming in all of the classical texts since they bring back that first time of wonder when I disovered D&D as a young boy with my friends.
I remember thinking, Wow, here is a way to actually visit the storybook places I loved growing up and have adventures in them!
Everytime I see the old school books, they still give me that feeling.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 27, 2011 5:51:13 GMT -6
Good idea, the book of Vile Randomness!
Here are two tables I created for a Spell Backfire Effects mechanic we used in a rules light game we played.
Some of the effects reflect our rules system (like spell points loss) but the table can easily be adjusted for whatever system you are using and if you don't use it regularly it can be occasionallyused for cursed magical items.
Hope someone can use it.
Xerxez
Spell Backfire Tables
Spell backfire occurs only when a natural (unmodified) roll of 96-100 is rolled by the magic user or cleric when casting a spell.
Exception: Healing magic and remove curse spells never backfire and if a healing spell or remove curse fails, ignore any Critical Failure Results. A spell backfire results in a loss of 1/2 all remaining spell points in addition to listed effect. Roll d100 to determine effect.
Roll 1st on table I.SB and, if indicated, a second roll takes place on table II.SB
Table I.SB Primary Spell Backfire Effects
01-15 Harmless magical effect (rains flower petals, butterfly swarm, etc). Use imagination.
16-30 Spell affects caster, if spell results are vague in this case use imagination. no save.
31-35 Spell affects party member, determine randomly, save permitted.
36-40 Spell results are opposite intended effect, beneficial to target.
41-45 Spell affects caster's party in 30' radius, save permitted except for caster.
46-50 Magical explosion, all within 30' radius lose wound level, save permitted except caster.
51-55 Lose all spell points 1-10 turns, regain 1/2 at end of duration.
56-60 Same as 51-55 except affects all other spell casters in 30' radius, save permitted them.
61-65 Caster stunned by magical backlash, no magic use 1-5 rounds or turns as appropriate*.
66-70 Flash of magic light,30' radius,all in area must save or be blinded 1-5 rounds or turns*.
71-76 Great thunderclap 100' radius,all in area must save or can't hear 1-5 rounds or turns*.
77-80 Caster loses 1 Sorcery Rank for 1-10 turns.
81-00 Consult Table II.SB
*If party or caster is in combat situation, duration of effect is in rounds, otherwise in turns.
Table II.SB Secondary Spell Backfire Results
Roll d100 again on Table I.SB plus a roll on this table. Ignore a second roll 0f 81-00 on table II.SB. Unless otherwise noted, Table II.SB efects permit no saving throws.
01-05 Spell caster's clothes and items become invisible 2-20 Turns, even if they change clothes
06-10 Caster shrinks to half normal height, permanent until remove Curse spell cast.
11-15 Caster changes sex for 2-20 turns.
16-20 Caster changes sex permanently until Remove Curse spell cast.
21-25 Lose all remaining spell points. must be regained in the usual way (i.e., rest).
26-25 Same as 16-20 but all casters in 30' radius affected lose 1/2 s.p. if fail to save.
26-30 Magical Dampening Area created for 1-10 turns or rounds*, no spell casting.
31-35 Swarm of insects or gaseous cloud follows spell caster, 30' radius 1-10 turns or rounds*,+10 on all actions, -10 Movement for those in affected area.
36-40 Caster grows extra body part except head(third eye, arm, extra fingers, etc.). GM determines how this affects Spell caster. Permanent until Remove Curse spell cast.
41-45 Caster grows extra head instantly, the head looks like the caster but has its own nasty disposition and abusive manner of speech. Permanent until Remove Curse spell cast.
46-50 Spell affects NPC friend of caster no matter how far away, no save permitted.
51-55 Impenetrable darkness follows caster 30' radius 1-10 rounds or turns*,+10 on all actions,-10 on Movement.
56-60 A dimension door opens, randomly determined monster appears and attacks caster and party.
61-65 Same as 56-60 but instead of monster a 300 pound ape.
66-70 Same as 56-60 but instead of monster an NPC party has been teleported to caster, use random determination and reaction rolls to determine disposition and alignment.
71-75 Caster bursts into green flames, lasts 1 round, lose 1 wound level.
76-80 An illusion of the spell being successfully cast affects the caster.
81-85 Caster driven insane for 1-10 rounds or turns*, a useless gibbering freak.
86-90 Caster's mouth disappears, 2-20 turns. Cannot talk or cast spells.
91-95 1 Magical Item in 30' radius is disenchanted, determine randomly.
96 Caster teleported 300' away in random direction.
97 Caster becomes an insect or small animal, retains intelligence but cannot fight, talk or cast spells. Equipment/clothes fall to ground, permanent until Remove Curse spell cast.
98 Caster teleported to other plane of existence (usually bad places...) for 1-10 rounds or turns*.
99 Caster becomes an infant sitting on pile of clothes and equipment. Permanent until Remove Curse Spell cast.
00 Caster disturbs and angers a demon or a god or goddess, use imagination.
*If caster or party is in combat situation duration is in rounds, otherwise turns.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 26, 2011 1:49:23 GMT -6
Ah. I meant Dreyer when I said "Herzel". Yes, Joan of Arc was lovely and moving indeed.
And I agree that Vampyr was a compelling and scary film--it feels like a dream one is having while you watch.
I personally don't think Bergman is overrated, though--his films strike a very honest chord.
"Wild Strawberries" is one of his best and very memorable, even for the slow start.
Nothing of D&D in there, though....but one could mine the seventh Seal for some adventure ideas or NPC's.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 25, 2011 1:10:02 GMT -6
There were some very funny moments in the film and I did laugh.
Didn't know there was a dubbed version, I'll look.
But Criterion films tend to be quite powerful in my experience--Joan of Arc by Herzel was another moving film--thiswithout ANY sound at all.
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Post by xerxez on Mar 23, 2011 4:27:23 GMT -6
Recently I discovered the film works of Ingmar Bergman and I have been astounded at the depth and power they hold.
After watching a few of his films (and liking every one of them) I discovered the Seventh Seal.
I don't think I am the only gamer who will like the medieval story and imagery of the Seventh Seal.
Disclaimers:
It's black and white (1957). Its not anything like a silent film, however.
It's Swedish with English subtitles.
It is not exactly historically accurate and it was not meant to be. Bergman did not get confused on the divergent events that he tied together but used poetic license.
Finally, it is unavailable online but can be ordered from Netflix. Or rented from a store, if you can find it.
That said, it is a moving and memorable experience.
A knight who returns from the last Crusade meets Death on a shore. Death has come to claim him but he asks Death to first play him a game of chess as he has heard tales and songs that say Death is a skilled player. Death accepts his offer, and the knight gets him to agree that he will not take him until the game is finished and if the knight should win, he will go free.
Dillusioned by the Crusades, lost youth and fears and doubts about life and death and the existence of God, the Knight tells Death that before darkness takes him, he wishes to perform "one meaningful act".
They do not play the game all at once--they play a series of moves and then death disappears for a time--they resume the game at intervals in the film and during the course of their ongoing game the Knight (and his ignoble and irreverent Squire Jons) gathers a band of unlikely companions and travel for the Knight's castle.
That is all I can say without ruining any of it. This is a moody, philosophical film filled with the themes of life, death, and God.
If you can detatch yourself from the way films are done these days and enjoy it as a medieval story you will like it. I could almost swear that Rutger Hauer modeled his Ladyhawke character's weary but ever chivalrous mannerisms after Max Von Sydow's Antonius Block role in the Seventh Seal. Block is not the cynic that Captain Navarre was, however.
Block is the most compelling character in the entire film and I want to play a character based upon him in the next game I partcipate in as a player. He was very believable. Although he wavers between doubt and faith, he is all the more believable for that.
I already gathered an idea from it for a D&D scenario I am looking forward to using! The personification of Death himself, entering the player's lives via a friendly but weary Knight who is engaged in an ongoing game of Chess with mysterious nightly visitant...
Hope someone gets to see it and enjoys it. Would enjoy hearing from folks who already have.
Xerxez
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