Elven Magic Books

[aldarron]

The 3LBB's are brief on spellbooks and spell research, but the impression is one of the Human MU in his tower.

Not much is said about Elves in regards to magic either except that they seem to have some "special" magic about them since they have unique magical items.

Otherwise they "act as Magic Users"

So on the face of it an Elven MU probably have just the same sort of spell books as a human one.

Thing is, I don't ever recall seeing the spell book of an Elven Magic-User ever mentioned in any of the 70's era OD&D or Classic publications.

So I'm wondering what ideas people have had about this. Is Elven magic special? Do they need spell books? If so are they any different from the human variety?

[Deleted]

I didn't use much of the various OD&D supplements back in the day, having already house-ruled whatever I needed the TLBBs didn't provide. By the time they became available, I had already put my own systems in place.

I did, however, use the druid list of magic spells for the elves instead of the standard M-U spell set. IMC the elves were very much creatures of the forest, so the spell list seemed a natural for them. In keeping with the fey nature of elfs and elfin magic, they needed no spellbooks.

[aldarron]

Apr 23, 2011 9:19:46 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

I didn't use much of the various OD&D supplements back in the day, having already house-ruled whatever I needed the TLBBs didn't provide. By the time they became available, I had already put my own systems in place.

I did, however, use the druid list of magic spells for the elves instead of the standard M-U spell set. IMC the elves were very much creatures of the forest, so the spell list seemed a natural for them. In keeping with the fey nature of elfs and elfin magic, they needed no spellbooks.

That actually sounds like a really good idea Cameron. The thing that got me thinking about this was the recent discussion about spell books in Holmes and the old comments from Arneson about AiF style Elfin song magic being one of the early forms of magic in Blackjmoor.

[monk]

IMC, magic always stemmed from something older than Elves or Humans or anything else. Something strange and potent about language itself. Thus, there are always spellbooks, as it always requires that the user of magic understand something deep about the words and sounds themselves. They needed to be able to pull something primal from the syllables, the energies of the earth or whatever.

Most likely, that's a different take on the magic than what you're looking for, because it means that Elves and human M-Us use the same system for spells, but there it is, nonetheless.

[xerxez]

I agree with Dubeers.

The prototypical fantasy roleplaying elf is drawn from the legends of the Fey and their magic is an innate, natural ability because elves are themselves magical in nature.

Creates a few problems for roleplaying games--i.e., what about half elves, spell books, etc. But they are definitely magical beings in themselves.

Almost makes one believe they should have a different spell list.

But as it is, I don't see elves using spellbooks or studying magic the way humans do.

[talysman]

I've toyed with changing their magic, but one of the problems with that is: can elves use magic scrolls?

You can eliminate spellbooks for "monster" elves without changing the way the magic works: assume that "monster" elves have a communal spellbook substitute in each village, such as standing stones with magical inscriptions on them. An elf who wants to prepare spells simply goes to the standing stones to study the inscriptions. PC elves use human-style spellbooks, since they are away from their homelands.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2011 18:10:04 GMT -6 talysman said:

I've toyed with changing their magic, but one of the problems with that is: can elves use magic scrolls?

IMC; only scrolls created by other elfs.

Apr 23, 2011 18:10:04 GMT -6 talysman said:

You can eliminate spellbooks for "monster" elves without changing the way the magic works: assume that "monster" elves have a communal spellbook substitute in each village, such as standing stones with magical inscriptions on them. An elf who wants to prepare spells simply goes to the standing stones to study the inscriptions. PC elves use human-style spellbooks, since they are away from their homelands.

My elfs don't sleep; they commune with Nature whilst their compatriots sleep, thereby gaining their spells.

I tried a great deal to make my elfs different without being out in left field. I toyed with the idea of a spell point system and spontaneous casting, but in the end I went the idea detailed above.

I hope this is of some use to you!

[coffee]

I think, as far as by-the-book goes, it didn't come up. Gary's players mostly played humans.

But as far as actual play goes, I quite like what DuBeers has come up with here. I've often thought that Elves should be more Druid than MU; I've just never actually done anything about it.

[talysman]

One thing I wrote a blog post about, but haven't implemented, is distinguishing elven subraces by the kind of magic they use:

• Green Elves: Druidic
  
• Blue Elves: Magic-User
  
• Blue-Green Elves: either M-U or custom sea/water spell lists
  
• Light Elves: Illusionist
  
• Dark Elves: M-U or custom shadow-themed spell lists
  

This particular variant I was working on dumped spellbooks for elves, but turned prepared spells into tiny vials of potion or powder. The quick way to implement that would be to ignore the traditional spell memorization rules and allow elves to prepare potions as if they were scrolls, but cheaper, maybe 25 GP per spell level. So 1st level elves can have more spells than human M-Us, if they can afford it, but they risk having their "spells" stolen or accidentally destroyed.

[aldarron]

Apr 23, 2011 19:10:41 GMT -6 talysman said:

This particular variant I was working on dumped spellbooks for elves, but turned prepared spells into tiny vials of potion or powder. The quick way to implement that would be to ignore the traditional spell memorization rules and allow elves to prepare potions as if they were scrolls, but cheaper, maybe 25 GP per spell level. So 1st level elves can have more spells than human M-Us, if they can afford it, but they risk having their "spells" stolen or accidentally destroyed.

Heh, you have reinvented the Arsonian magic system John. Except for the reduced spell cost, that's a Blackmoor wizard minus the at will abilities of fireball and lightning.

[talysman]

Apr 23, 2011 20:24:31 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Heh, you have reinvented the Arsonian magic system John. Except for the reduced spell cost, that's a Blackmoor wizard minus the at will abilities of fireball and lightning.

Cool! I'm pseudo-official!

I'd like to work out some rules for how to create new magic systems without needing to change the spells all that much, but instead changing the way spells are gained, prepared, and cast. I did a rough rewrite of the way illusionists worked once, to make them distinct from magic-users. I'd like to have a quick formal process, though.