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Post by multiarms on Jun 8, 2021 14:20:16 GMT -6
What scale (or size) of miniatures was intended for use with Chainmail?
I do not mean the 1:10 or 1:20 "scale" of figure-to-man. I mean the actual size of the figures and bases. Like, Warhammer uses 28mm scale miniatures, for example.
Does anyone have recommendations for currently available miniatures to use for Chainmail and other similar games?
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 8, 2021 19:58:32 GMT -6
It says in the preamble (2nd Ed p4, 3rd Ed p8) that "The LGTSA Medieval Miniatures Rules were developed primarily for use with Elastolin and Starlux figures, which are of 40 mm scale." There have been recent discussions on these boards re: these miniatures, e.g., here: odd74.proboards.com/thread/14142/elastolin-figures-action-aside |
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Post by rsdean on Jun 9, 2021 5:43:22 GMT -6
What scale (or size) of miniatures was intended for use with Chainmail? I do not mean the 1:10 or 1:20 "scale" of figure-to-man. I mean the actual size of the figures and bases. Like, Warhammer uses 28mm scale miniatures, for example. Does anyone have recommendations for currently available miniatures to use for Chainmail and other similar games? I apologize for not having the energy this morning to do this in detail, but, do you have a pdf copy of the Chainmail rules? If you look at page 28 (in the Fantasy Supplement section), you should find a chart with the scales of figures to plug in to get “properly sized” giants, elves, hobbits, etc., for two sizes of men, 30mm and 40mm. The 40mm are the aforementioned Elastolins and Starlux figures; the 30mm figures were a common wargaming scale at the time, and likely would have been from Jack Scruby. Historifigs has the old Scruby molds, and still has a list for the 30mm medievals, though currently not in production: app.box.com/s/z8c8g347e44nkebl7j7n03wleoankpkdThere are no movement/weapons range changes suggested in the rules based on using 30mm rather than 40mm figures for the game, so I expect that they didn’t really worry about it. There are also no base sizes specified. Elastolins, judging from the pictures extant, were probably standing around on their integral bases, and were moved and handled as individual figures. If you dig through the Chainmail discussions here, you’ll find that a player is pretty much on his own for deciding on base size, and whether it will matter. There are no set rules, for example, for what happens when a line of figures 6 wide hits a line of figures 12 wide. Can all 12 fight back? The rules simply don’t say, and playing these rules will be difficult without the ability and confidence to make these decisions on the fly. As a result, by the way, any two Chainmail games run by different referees/hosts may differ considerably, and that’s not even taking into account the modular nature of the rules (sequential vs simultaneous moves, which set of combat tables, etc.). As for recommendations on figures, I am personally fond of using 1/72 plastic figures from Dark Aliiance, Caesar, and a host of historical medieval providers (esp. Zvezda and Italeri), classic “true” 25mm vintage figures from Minifigs, Ral Partha, Heritage, etc., “true” 25mm home cast figures from Prince August molds, and I recently bought a whole bunch of 54mm Russian plastic flat figures from an outfit called Warriors and Battles  . There’s a whole world of modern “heroic 28mm” figures out there; I’ve got quite a lot of Reaper Bones, but don’t ordinarily use them for battle games because they don’t look good in formation (IMHO). There are several companies making multi-piece hard plastic 28mm figures, which look great when finished, but which make my head explode trying to assemble them. What’s your miniatures background? Are you starting from scratch? Rob Dean (You might want to have a look at my blog … ) sharpbrush.blogspot.com/ |
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Post by multiarms on Jun 9, 2021 6:41:05 GMT -6
What’s your miniatures background? Are you starting from scratch? Rob, Thanks for your post; this is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. My background is with 25-28 mm stuff, playing various GW games mostly (Warhammer Fantasy Battle in the 90s, 40k in the 2000s, Age of Sigmar since 2017 or so). I enjoy collecting and crafting the stuff from GW but I agree their newer minis are not at all suitable for rank-and-file formations. I really enjoy collecting vintage metal mins (stuff from Ral Partha or Citadel "oldhammer" especially). I paint them and occasionally use them for individual combat in D&D. I was looking for ways to use them in mass battles as a part of my D&D games. So I've been looking at Chainmail but haven't really cracked it yet. The rules are still very confusing to me perhaps because I don't have any background in more historical mini wargames like Napoleonics, etc. I do have the Chainmail PDF from drivethru; thanks for pointing out that citation to me, it is helpful. It's nice to know that they were kind of "loosey-goosey" with scales and that just using the inch measurements in Chainmail would probably be fine regardless of mini and base sizes. I'm going to take a look at some of those mini manufacturers you mentioned. I would probably be most interested in continuing to collect 25-28mm, just so that the minis look right with one another, using GW knockoffs or Frostgrave sets. I don't mind assembling plastic kits. I'm gonna check out your blog too. Please chime in again with any other tidbits or recommendations as they come to you. Cheers! Nick |
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Post by rsdean on Jun 9, 2021 6:56:39 GMT -6
OK, that’ll give a good basis for further answers. However, it will be later, as I need to be out the door to my ice dancing lesson in about 15 minutes…
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Post by rsdean on Jun 9, 2021 6:59:27 GMT -6
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Post by multiarms on Jun 9, 2021 7:05:36 GMT -6
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Post by rsdean on Jun 9, 2021 10:34:25 GMT -6
odd74.proboards.com/thread/13677/simultaneous-movementI would point out the thread linked above for some of the discussion of places where using the rules would require interpretation. So, if you want to use modern production of vintage miniatures design, there is some good news. Caliver Books, out of England, has the Minifig molds, and a fair number are in production. This should link to the MEs currently available. www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=3&CategoryID=35&SubCategoryID=269For the Greyhawk fans, Minifigs World of Greyhawk miniatures were a mix of Minifigs existing Valley of the Four Winds, Aureola Rococo, and historical (Dark Ages and Hundred Years War mostly) figures, and a lot of those are available as well. For Heritage, some of the molds are in use by Michael Thomas, doing business as Classic Miniatures: classicminiatures.net/And Ral Partha army type units are mostly available from Ral Partha legacy: ralparthalegacy.com/
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Post by multiarms on Jun 9, 2021 12:25:14 GMT -6
For Heritage, some of the molds are in use by Michael Thomas, doing business as Classic Miniatures: classicminiatures.net/And Ral Partha army type units are mostly available from Ral Partha legacy: ralparthalegacy.com/Outstanding links. This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks Rob! |
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Post by Mordorandor on Sept 25, 2021 21:34:45 GMT -6
I’m not very knowledgeable re: mini sizes and have always been fond of some of the varieties smaller than 25/28mm. Has anyone played Chainmail with smaller minis, and having done so, have you found the need to alter scale or inches to accommodate?
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Post by tdenmark on Sept 26, 2021 1:16:08 GMT -6
I’m not very knowledgeable re: mini sizes and have always been fond of some of the varieties smaller than 25/28mm. Has anyone played Chainmail with smaller minis, and having done so, have you found the need to alter scale or inches to accommodate? I'm working on a HO scale (1:87) battlefield diorama to play in my game room. I bought a Cricut to print and cut out the building models on cardstock with. It has been a lot of fun to put together, but miniatures are time consuming! The nice thing is since it is the most common scale for train sets there are plenty of resources available at the local hobby store. I may post some photos once it is presentable. |
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Post by rsdean on Sept 26, 2021 4:04:45 GMT -6
I’m not very knowledgeable re: mini sizes and have always been fond of some of the varieties smaller than 25/28mm. Has anyone played Chainmail with smaller minis, and having done so, have you found the need to alter scale or inches to accommodate? I haven’t, so take anything that I say with the appropriate grain of salt. The original rules were run using individually based Elastolin 40mm figures, but also had comparative miniatures scaling information for 30mm figures. No play differences were suggested. So, if you were using smaller figures, I think you could make either of two choices: keep everything the same and enjoy the visual appearance of having the figure scale be closer to the ground scale (1”:10 yards, aka 1/360, somewhere around the actual scale of 6mm figures); OR … Use compressed inches (either centimeters, say, or some other increment such as three-quarter inches or half inches) to either expand the play area (i.e. with centimeters and 15mm figures, your 4’x6’ table is now the equivalent of a 10’ by 15’ table with inches and 30mm figures) or to play the same game on a smaller table (like my home 3’ x 5’ dining room table). |
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Post by Starbeard on Oct 8, 2021 11:30:20 GMT -6
What’s your miniatures background? Are you starting from scratch? Rob, Thanks for your post; this is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. My background is with 25-28 mm stuff, playing various GW games mostly (Warhammer Fantasy Battle in the 90s, 40k in the 2000s, Age of Sigmar since 2017 or so). I enjoy collecting and crafting the stuff from GW but I agree their newer minis are not at all suitable for rank-and-file formations. I really enjoy collecting vintage metal mins (stuff from Ral Partha or Citadel "oldhammer" especially). I paint them and occasionally use them for individual combat in D&D. I was looking for ways to use them in mass battles as a part of my D&D games. So I've been looking at Chainmail but haven't really cracked it yet. The rules are still very confusing to me perhaps because I don't have any background in more historical mini wargames like Napoleonics, etc. I do have the Chainmail PDF from drivethru; thanks for pointing out that citation to me, it is helpful. It's nice to know that they were kind of "loosey-goosey" with scales and that just using the inch measurements in Chainmail would probably be fine regardless of mini and base sizes. I'm going to take a look at some of those mini manufacturers you mentioned. I would probably be most interested in continuing to collect 25-28mm, just so that the minis look right with one another, using GW knockoffs or Frostgrave sets. I don't mind assembling plastic kits. I'm gonna check out your blog too. Please chime in again with any other tidbits or recommendations as they come to you. Cheers! Nick For the rules, you might enjoy tracking down a copy of the original Warhammer boxed set booklets from 1983. They are 60% what you're already familiar with from 90s WFB, but far simpler, more vague and generalized, and still encamped in the old guard mindset that miniatures wargames are a DIY hobby for initiated clubs rather than a manufactured hobby for individual consumers. It won't help with Chainmail rules per se, but it might help shift your brain over to the language and mentality that makes Chainmail more accessible. |
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. There’s a whole world of modern “heroic 28mm” figures out there; I’ve got quite a lot of Reaper Bones, but don’t ordinarily use them for battle games because they don’t look good in formation (IMHO). There are several companies making multi-piece hard plastic 28mm figures, which look great when finished, but which make my head explode trying to assemble them.
