Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 10:32:19 GMT -6
Plate mail really does make the game significantly more survivable early on, and it's very easy for a low level party to afford, especially if they pool their resources. There's been some talk on the Discord and around here in various threads about possibly disallowing plate mail early on in campaigns or increasing its price to AD&D levels. That could make a fascinating thread in and of itself.
edit: I think I'll make one after a cursory search to make sure it's not been done. We don't have an anti necro-posting policy around here, if you're just tuning in.
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Post by vasious on Jul 7, 2021 20:06:26 GMT -6
With regards to Ability Scores
Going by Book 1; the 3d6 Down the line
Then once a class is selected, off prime requisite stats can be used to boost the prime requisite.
Does used mean, counted towards, or does it mean reduced at the prescribed rate
This is described as for the purposes of the XP Bonus only.
So a Fighter with 16 rolled strength and an Intelligence of 15 can use 6 points of Intelligence at 1 1:3 ratio to have an effective Strength of 18 for the purposes of XP Bonus (which actually remains unchanged) but they would not gain any other benefit to having an 18 Strength and thus should be considered still 16
The Bonuses and Penalties to Advancement Due to Abilities tale ends with
Note: Average scores are 9–12. Units so indicated above may be used to increase prime requisite total insofar as this does not bring that category below average, i.e. below a score of 9.
That suggests that the Intelligence of 15 would actually be reduced to 9
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Post by geoffrey on Jul 7, 2021 22:11:53 GMT -6
Overall, I like 3d6 in order. That said, if someone had a hideous set of scores and wished for something different, I have no problem with him re-rolling a whole new character. Of course, there must be a limit to that sort of thing. Method IV in the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide is my favorite of the methods in that august tome:
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aramis
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 170
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Post by aramis on Jul 8, 2021 23:07:43 GMT -6
My favorite methods for older D&D are...
3d6 place where desired when rolled, then on to the next one. 2d6+3 in order 2d6+3 place as desired when rolled, then on to the next put 3 of the members into each att and starting cash: 6,6,6,5,5,5 4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1 1d8+1d6+1d4, place when rolled. (18 is 1/184 instead of 1/216, but the mean and median are the same, while the mode is much wider and flatter.) Make a set of chits with 6×6, 6×5, 9×4, 9×3, 6×2,6×1, draw then immediately place 21 times, for 6 atts + coin.
For 5E, I prefer the Redrick rolling. Sufficiently so that I implemented it as a wehpage..It randomly assigns the stats in a valid point build. How it works: Roll R = 1dN where N is the number of attributes where +1 costs less than the remaining points. R is which attribute as a number, counting only those which are able to take a +1. Keep going until att points are spent.
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Post by rustic313 on Jul 10, 2021 20:00:13 GMT -6
Simple method: Roll 2d6+6 for prime req and one other score. Advanced Method: Use the face cards from a standard deck. Each player draws three cards and then picks one of them.
KING = CON QUEEN = CHA JACK = DEX SPADES = STR CLUBS = INT HEARTS = WIS DIAMONDS = DEX
Roll 2d6+6 for the two stats indicated by your card, 3d6 for everything else. If you happen to draw the jack of diamonds then roll 2d6+6 twice and retain the best for DEX.
For jokers, roll 2d6+6 for CON/DEX/CHA, 2d6+1 for one stat, and 3d6 for the others.
Characters are just about guaranteed to have their minimum (9+) for a prime requisite and a secondary stat (DEX, CON or CHA) with this method. You get some player choice but also let the dice guide you.
If contemplating higher level play (say, level 5+) then I would use 2d4+10 for the prime reqs and something like 4d6 drop the lowest for the remainder on the theory that characters that survive to higher level probably have better stats (Delta has done some research on the matter).
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jamiltron
Level 2 Seer
Always looking for games/player in West LA
Posts: 44
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Post by jamiltron on Jul 10, 2021 22:37:40 GMT -6
I really, really prefer 3d6 in-order, but honestly I'm so much of a softie that I really do not mind whatever methods the players choose. And I think the few places that stats actually mechanically impact the game is so slight that I have never found this a problem.
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Post by Red Baron on Jul 14, 2021 9:09:41 GMT -6
Some thoughts this morning...
A straight 3d6 allows for average enough ability scores to make potions, manuals, wishes, etc that raise ability scores meaningful.
One could really go down this road even further by starting with 2d6+1 (3-13) in each score, and allowing characters to add +1 to an ability score each time they level up.
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 14, 2021 10:14:51 GMT -6
Some thoughts this morning... A straight 3d6 allows for average enough ability scores to make potions, manuals, wishes, etc that raise ability scores meaningful. One could really go down this road even further by starting with 2d6+1 (3-13) in each score, and allowing characters to add +1 to an ability score each time they level up. 5th edition has made me a fan of adding +1 to an attribute of the player's choice every 4th level. I was toying with the idea of 2d6+ on a progressive scale: 2d6+1 2d6+2 etc. up to 2d6+6
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 16:49:34 GMT -6
5th edition has made me a fan of adding +1 to an attribute of the player's choice every 4th level. How would you feel about an appropriately powered and thematic OD&D style "feat" as a secondary option? Or perhaps "cantrips"?
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Post by Red Baron on Jul 14, 2021 18:39:29 GMT -6
5th edition has made me a fan of adding +1 to an attribute of the player's choice every 4th level. How would you feel about an appropriately powered and thematic OD&D style "feat" as a secondary option? Or perhaps "cantrips"? Not for a 3llb game. Maybe for Holmes, since you have a lot of freedom to make up your own rules after 3rd level.
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 14, 2021 21:01:59 GMT -6
5th edition has made me a fan of adding +1 to an attribute of the player's choice every 4th level. How would you feel about an appropriately powered and thematic OD&D style "feat" as a secondary option? Or perhaps "cantrips"? I like cantrips. Feats not as much, I prefer the special abilities to be baked into the class itself. ie. at 3rd level the Goblin Slayer character gains an additional +1 to hit goblins. Maybe its because feats were overdone in 3rd edition. A trimmed down selection that aren't game breakers might work.
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Post by rustic313 on Jul 14, 2021 21:15:40 GMT -6
For my game the character class is Far and Away the most important decision and the focus of the game for the player. This should probably be picked instead of rolled. I get that but I also like how the random dice rolls guide you towards potentially unexpected choices, and narrow the choices down. When you roll you may not qualify for certain classes (removes options entirely) or may have an obvious leaning towards one (17 INT? Break out the wizard hat!).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 5:08:33 GMT -6
How would you feel about an appropriately powered and thematic OD&D style "feat" as a secondary option? Or perhaps "cantrips"? I like cantrips. Feats not as much, I prefer the special abilities to be baked into the class itself. ie. at 3rd level the Goblin Slayer character gains an additional +1 to hit goblins. Maybe its because feats were overdone in 3rd edition. A trimmed down selection that aren't game breakers might work. That makes sense. During the year and a half I was running S&W Whitebox locally, we experimented with a lot of homebrew and blog-stolen houserules. There were a lot of optional feats and additional class features for the various classes. Nothing too game-breaking. Something like "Halfling resiliency. Add an additional +1 to saves vs poison". etc
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 23:29:25 GMT -6
I like: roll 3d6 six times and assign to the attributes you choose.
I also like ritt's wretched of the earth houserule, which I would link to if I recalled where he posted it. (It's here on ODD74 somewhere.) I made my own variant because tinkerers gotta tinker. But the basic idea is a random chart that confers some starting advantage for characters who don't have any exceptional scores.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 25, 2021 6:28:10 GMT -6
5th edition has made me a fan of adding +1 to an attribute of the player's choice every 4th level. How would you feel about an appropriately powered and thematic OD&D style "feat" as a secondary option? Or perhaps "cantrips"? This might be fodder for a totally different thread, but I would love to have a discussion about importing 5E-isms into an OD&D rules system. (1) I'd like to figure out a "better" point-buy system, or at least one scaled more to OD&D stats. (2) I like the idea of the +1 attribute each 4 levels (assuming that stats aren't inflated at the onset) (3) I like the alternative of having OD&D-scaled feats. (4) I'm tempted to reward human choices by giving them the bonus feat at 1st level.
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Post by jeffb on Jul 25, 2021 8:30:38 GMT -6
5th edition has made me a fan of adding +1 to an attribute of the player's choice every 4th level. How would you feel about an appropriately powered and thematic OD&D style "feat" as a secondary option? Or perhaps "cantrips"? Check out Relics & Ruins. Great little game (it's PWYW) and does a tidy job of integrating some "feats" into a OD&D/MCM ruleset. You should too Finarvyn
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Post by tkdco2 on Jul 25, 2021 21:24:56 GMT -6
My overpowered method during the 1990s: roll 6d6, reroll any score under 9 arrange scores as desired. Yes, I used to create characters that way, although rolling 18 happened much less than you'd think.
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 30, 2021 3:35:57 GMT -6
Roll roll 18d6. Choose 6 sets of 3. Assign to attributes as desired.
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Post by tkdco2 on Jul 30, 2021 16:18:24 GMT -6
Roll roll 18d6. Choose 6 sets of 3. Assign to attributes as desired. I'm going to try that method.
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 30, 2021 16:41:23 GMT -6
I'm going to try that method. Yeah, I was patting myself on the back for that. Thought it was a pretty good one.
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 3, 2021 13:02:30 GMT -6
I just tried this method. Here are the results. The numbers written in words are the die values. The numerals are number that came up.
One: 3 Two: 3 Three: 1 Four: 2 Five: 6 Six: 3
While it was tempting to make 18, I decided to make a more balanced character. Here are my final results.
STR 5+4+2 = 11 INT 5+5+1 = 11 WIS 4+3+2 = 09 DEX 6+5+5 = 16 CON 6+5+2 = 13 CHA 6+1+1 = 08
B/X or BECMI seems to be the most advantageous version for these rolls. The 8 gets -1 modifier, but the 16 and 13 give a +2 and +1 modifier respectively, so I get a net modifier bonus of +2. My character would be a thief. DEX 16 gives him a +10% XP bonus. If I allow maximum hit points at level 1 (and I usually do), he starts with 5 hp. Leather armor and DEX bonuses give him AC 5. Not bad for a starting character!
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giauz
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 51
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Post by giauz on Aug 18, 2021 17:34:48 GMT -6
tkdco2 , hey, could you judge what my first method might be good for. All I know is it's fast: "Write an up or down arrow next to an ability score.This is where you begin assigning scores and in what direction you proceed. Roll 6d20 and 1d6. Asign scores as quickly as you can put the 6d20 back in the dice bag. 1's are 11's, 2's are 12's, 19's are 9's, and 20's are 10's. Just remember: below 3= +10, and above 18= -10. The 1d6 gives you your "bonus score" (as well as beginning HP). Start at your arrow again. If any score is 3, 9-12, or 18, add zero and decrease bonus score by 1 each. If 4-8, minus 1 from score and bonus score each. If 13-17, add one to the score and minus one from the bonus score each. When the bonus score is depleted, your final ability scores are determined. This reduces rolling ability scores and HP to 1 roll, favors middling ability scores generally, and makes some fringe scores gain negative or positive modifiers for more interesting characters."
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 18, 2021 22:11:01 GMT -6
giauz: Can you give us an example of how this works, please?
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giauz
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 51
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Post by giauz on Aug 19, 2021 0:10:24 GMT -6
giauz: Can you give us an example of how this works, please? STR INT ↓ Trying for a wizard WIS CON DEX CHA Hp ______________________________________ Rolling 6d20 and 1d6 STR 17 INT ↓ 9 ADD 0 WIS 11 0 CON 5 1 DEX 15 1 because I got a 4 on my CHA 10 1d6 Hp 4 ________________________________________ STR 17 INT ↓ 9 WIS 11 is my final result from 1 CON 6 roll and some really simple DEX 16 addition/subtraction. CHA 10 Hp 4 Range is 3 to 18 with numbers mostly in the middle. Looks like a Fighter or Cleric, though. EDIT SHOULD BE CON 4 NOT 6.
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Post by Porphyre on Sept 4, 2021 6:45:33 GMT -6
3d6 in order. Worst score can be re-rolled. Prime requisite can be increased by reducing other scores on a 2 for 1 basis.
Hopeless characters (more than 3 scores under 9) can be discarded and a new one rolled, but the new character has to keep the former as a henchman.
Later, scores can be increased by "spending" experience points.
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Post by howandwhy99 on Sept 8, 2021 17:47:10 GMT -6
Roll 3d6 in order 7x with the DM watching, the last is multiplied x10. This is a character, their ability scores and starting gold.
Do this 9 more time for a suite of 10 potential characters.
Decide on a race class combo you would like and pick one of the character rows for it. Alternatively you can pick from a fellow players suite, with their approval.
Min/maxing must be done on a separate sheet so the original scores aren't erased. If there are 3 or more players rolling up suites, there is a solid chance at least one of every subclass is available / can be min/maxed into.
When you pick a set of stats cross it off. Each character can only be picked once.
When you no longer want your suite of rolls give it to the DM for NPCs.
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Post by blackbarn on Sept 11, 2021 12:19:34 GMT -6
Some thoughts this morning... A straight 3d6 allows for average enough ability scores to make potions, manuals, wishes, etc that raise ability scores meaningful. One could really go down this road even further by starting with 2d6+1 (3-13) in each score, and allowing characters to add +1 to an ability score each time they level up. I’ve tried having players choose one ability score upon reaching a new level, then rolling 1d20. If the roll is higher than the existing score, they may add a point permanently, if not then no change. I like that it allows a chance for improvement but also introduces a strategy or gambling element; do you try improving low scores so it’s more likely to be successful, or try making high scores even higher though the chance is increasingly lower?
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Post by Lord Cias on Sept 11, 2021 17:44:19 GMT -6
I've come up with several that offer the player a little more control than the standard 3d6 in order but without giving too much away, IMO:
1: Roll 4d6 for two scores, dropping the lowest for one score and the highest for the other, roll 3d6 for all other scores.
2: Roll 2d6+6 for one score, 2d6+1 for one score, and 3d6 for the others.
3: Roll 3d6+1d4 and drop the lowest for three abilities, then roll 3d6+1d8 and drop the highest for the other three.
4: Roll 3d6 for all scores. Re-roll one ability until a higher score is generated, then re-roll one ability until a lower score is generated.
5: Begin with scores of 2, 4, 6, 6, 8, and 8, arranged as the player desires. The player may then increase each score by +1d4, +1d6, +2d4, +1d8, +1d10, and +2d6, choosing in advance each score as it is rolled for. Treat a roll of 19 as 15 and 20 as 16.
6: Roll 3d6 and change any roll of 1 to 3 and any roll of 6 to 4 then place these dice aside as "substitute dice". Roll 3d6 for each ability score in any order. The player may choose any of the substitute dice to replace another die as it is rolled.
7: Human only: choose a class first and roll 2d4+10 for the prime requisite of that class and 3d4 for one ability as follows: Fighting man: intelligence Magic-user: strength Cleric: dexterity Thief: wisdom Roll 3d6 for all other scores.
8: Start with any one ability score of the player's choice as 16. Roll 3d6 for all other ability scores. The player may add 2 points to their scores, either +2 to one score or +1 to two different scores.
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aramis
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 170
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Post by aramis on Sept 17, 2021 18:42:35 GMT -6
My method for balanced characters: take 18 dice, set to ⚀⚀⚀⚁⚁⚁⚂⚂⚂⚃⚃⚃⚄⚄⚄⚅⚅⚅, arrange into six sets of 3 dice as desired, no adjustments.
My method for known hardcore munchkins: ⚀⚀⚀⚀⚀⚀ ⚀⚁⚂⚃⚄⚅ ⚅⚅⚅⚅⚅⚅ Arrange in sets of 3 as desired, no adjustments. Sure, you can have 2 18's ... but that's going to get some low stats in return...
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