Number of Magic Items per Dungeon Level

[oakesspalding]

So, this is a silly, subjective question that has no real fixed answer, but I'll ask anyway:

For a dungeon level that contains enough treasure for characters to level up, do any of you have a rule of thumb for approximately how many magic items it should contain?

For a dungeon/megadungeon with an average of 100 rooms/level, I'm going with 2 x the number of expected characters, so, say, 10 total items.

My own first pass preference is not necessarily to increase the number per level, but, rather, to increase their power.

What do you guys think? Is that too few or too many?

[Deleted]

Yeah, very subjective. I don't use a rule of thumb, it has what it has, much that will not be usuable by the characters, for one reason or another. I don't have any dungeons as small as 100/rooms per level. My mega-dungeons tend to average about 10,000 rooms per level and up. So each level has enough treasure to level up any number of parties. My players don't necessarily try to clear a level before going deeper.

My magic items are often the wrong alignment to be used by the characters and some magic is just too ancient, too weird and too obscure for the use to be discerned.

The first level of the Murkhill dungeon is 40,000,000 square feet and contains somewhere between 2000 and 5000 magic items 98% of which is low power or unusable (at least at there level of power and knowledge).
Characters often have no idea that they have not even seen a fraction of the level, thimgs are often not what they appear to be.

[derv]

A rough guideline is that 1/3 of the rooms will contain some treasure and only 5% of these will contain a magic item.

Levels 1-3: 1-2 out of 30 rooms will contain 0-5 magic items
Levels 4-5: 3-4 out of 30 rooms contain 0-5 magic items
Levels 6-7: 5 out of 30
Levels 8-9: 6 out of 30
Levels 10-12: 7 out of 30

This is a total without consideration to party size and class makeup. There is no guarantee of leveling per level of the dungeon.

[oakesspalding]

Jun 10, 2017 17:34:46 GMT -6 derv said:

A rough guideline is that 1/3 of the rooms will contain some treasure and only 5% of these will contain a magic item.

Levels 1-3: 1-2 out of 30 rooms will contain 0-5 magic items
Levels 4-5: 3-4 out of 30 rooms contain 0-5 magic items
Levels 6-7: 5 out of 30
Levels 8-9: 6 out of 30
Levels 10-12: 7 out of 30

This is a total without consideration to party size and class makeup. There is no guarantee of leveling per level of the dungeon.

1-2 out of 30 rooms, or 1-2 out of 30 rooms with treasure? The latter is more consistent with your first statement, I guess.

If 1 of 3 rooms contain a monster, 1 of 2 of those contains treasure, and 1 in 6 of empty rooms contain treasure, then for a 100 room level that yields:

17 Monster
17 Monster + Treasure
11 Treasure
1 magic cache with an average of 3 items at 1-3 level.

So in three levels with a total of 300 rooms, the party will have picked up an average of 8 items (if they even took possession of them all). That seems low to me, especially when you consider that perhaps 1/2 might be one-use, etc. I could be wrong.

[derv]

Jun 10, 2017 18:03:34 GMT -6 oakesspalding said:

So in three levels with a total of 300 rooms, the party will have picked up an average of 8 items (if they even took possession of them all). That seems low to me, especially when you consider that perhaps 1/2 might be one-use, etc. I could be wrong.

No, I think you have it. Yes, the items could be one-use or, depending on how you determine magic items, they could be extremely powerful.

Gems are also a bit of a pot-luck affair

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2017 17:34:46 GMT -6 derv said:

A rough guideline is that 1/3 of the rooms will contain some treasure and only 5% of these will contain a magic item.

Levels 1-3: 1-2 out of 30 rooms will contain 0-5 magic items
Levels 4-5: 3-4 out of 30 rooms contain 0-5 magic items
Levels 6-7: 5 out of 30
Levels 8-9: 6 out of 30
Levels 10-12: 7 out of 30

This is a total without consideration to party size and class makeup. There is no guarantee of leveling per level of the dungeon.

I spent some times coming up with rough numbers for the format above and came up with this:

Levels 1-3: out of each 1000 rooms about 5% will contain some treasure and out of those 50 rooms with some treasure 5 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 4-5: out of each 1000 rooms about 8% will contain some treasure and out of those 80 rooms with some treasure 8 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 6-7: out of each 1000 rooms about 10% will contain some treasure and out of those 100 rooms with some treasure 10 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 8-9: out of each 1000 rooms about 12% will contain some treasure and out of those 120 rooms with some treasure 12 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 10-12: out of each 1000 rooms about 15% will contain some treasure and out of those 150 rooms with some treasure 15 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 13-100: out of each 1000 rooms about 20% will contain some treasure and out of those 200 rooms with some treasure 25 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 101-500: out of each 1000 rooms about 25% will contain some treasure and out of those 250 rooms with some treasure 35 will contain 1 or more magic items
Levels 501- and down: out of each 1000 rooms about 30% will contain some treasure and out of those 300 rooms with some treasure 50 will contain 1 or more magic items

This is roughly what I use with a minimum dungeon size of 1000 rooms per level and a minimum number of levels of 100 levels. IMO this would constitute a high-magic campaign. If a party of up to 20 regardless of class clears at least half of a dungeon level, they should all level up.

Levels 1-500: about 10% of the rooms will contain monsters of 1 hit die up to the most powerful creatures of 20+ hit dice, number encountered may range from 1 up an underground city at the levels below 15. Up to 8 hit die monsters can be encountered on level 1. Unique specimens of almost any monsters of up to double the normal number of hit dice may be encountered. It is always possible that any given monster is Tuckerized. It is possible that monsters may be willing to trade magic for magic so it is always worth keeping magic that you cannot use. Temporary alliances are also possible and may be a consideration. Attacking everything you meet is known as suicide.

Levels 501+: about 30% of the rooms will contain monsters of 10 hit die up to the most powerful creatures of 20+ hit dice, number encountered may range from 1 up an underground city. Monsters of under 10 hit die on these levels are slaves of higher level monsters. Under some circumstances arming them and leading a rebellion may be a possibility. These are the levels were the most valuable treasures are found.

There are regular patrols of monsters starting at about level 101 and down.

[derv]

Jun 10, 2017 19:05:17 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

This is roughly what I use with a minimum dungeon size of 1000 rooms per level and a minimum number of levels of 100 levels. IMO this would constitute a high-magic campaign. If a party of up to 20 regardless of class clears at least half of a dungeon level, they should all level up.

I really don't use megadungeons. My dungeons tend to be fairly modest, consisting of between 15-40 rooms per level with numerous hallways or intersecting tunnels and various dead ends. Pretty standard fair.

For me a practical approach is to minimize magic items by skewing the average (especially on the first couple of levels). So, where there are rooms that contain treasure there should be a 5% chance that they have magic in the mix. On a roll of 1 on d20 magic items should be present. But, I roll a d6 to determine how many items, where a 6 equals 0. Thus, 0-5 items. So, it is foreseeable that there might not be any magic on a dungeon level.

I'm not opposed to a GM hand picking and placing some items on a level if they think it's warranted, though.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2017 19:47:15 GMT -6 derv said:

'm not opposed to a GM hand picking and placing some items on a level if they think it's warranted, though.

I hand pick all treasure, since magic or mundane a lot of it is completely unique to that bit of treasure.

[geoffrey]

The ruins of the moathouse and the dungeon level in Gary Gygax's T1: The Village of Hommlet have a total of 35 encounter areas. Therein are more than 30,000 g.p. worth of treasure, which is more than enough to get an entire party of beginning adventurers to 2nd level. Therein are also the following nine magic items:

1. potion of undead control
2. scroll of 3 spells (push, stinking cloud, and fly)
3. scroll of protection from undead
4. staff of striking (20 charges)
5. elven cloak
6. phylactery of action
7. +1 plate mail
8. +1 shield
9. four +1 arrows

The 35 rooms are as follows:

11 (31.4%) are empty of monsters or treasures.
2 (5.7%) have monsters without treasure.
15 (42.9%) have monsters and treasure.
3 (8.6%) have traps.
1 (2.9%) has stairs.
3 (8.6%) have treasures without monsters.

Generally speaking, I find Gary's modules more valuable for stocking dungeons than I do the formulae in the various rulebooks. When Gary says to do X, but he does Y instead, I tend to do Y as well.

[waysoftheearth]

See also Treasure and XP per Dungeon Level

[Deleted]

Bringing up the adventure module also raises another point, since Gary would not have considered himself to be a "Monty Haul DM", it makes me wonder how over the top some of the "Monty Haul" DMs must have been. Bitd (1975) we were on the light end of the treasure curve, based on the examples above. My first "dungeon" was at the bottom of a 500 ft stairwell and ran horizontally for about 100 miles long by 25 miles wide and it was split into 10 progressively tougher areas. There was no tangible treasure at all to collect only intangible treasures and a mostly 3rd level 16 PC party took about 25 hours to go through it between a Friday and a Saturday.

[simrion]

Jun 10, 2017 17:16:35 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

I don't have any dungeons as small as 100/rooms per level. My mega-dungeons tend to average about 10,000 rooms per level and up..

So...any chance you'll publish in print or PDF?

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2017 12:23:54 GMT -6 simrion said:

Jun 10, 2017 17:16:35 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

I don't have any dungeons as small as 100/rooms per level. My mega-dungeons tend to average about 10,000 rooms per level and up..

So...any chance you'll publish in print or PDF?

I would need an artist to draw it up well enough for publishing. Then you also have the undrawable stuff such as two corridors that pass through the same space without intersecting and that is a simple example. I have thought that someday I might do a youtube video and describe it and let people attempt to draw it.

Behind a secret door is a five foot wide corridor that slopes down, and you all decide to follow it and it goes about a hundred yards and then goes around two corners and you come to a door, going through the door you go down steps. After descending about 20 feet you realize the stairway corridor is getting more narrow and now is is only 3.5 feet wide, you look back and behind you the corridor is collapsing on itself and that is moving towards you, you all start moving faster and the stairway comes to a landing and at the end of the landing is a pit too deep to see the bottom of and 10 feet away is a small landing with a door beyond. You quickly jump across and the whole party has to help get the dwarf across because of course they cannot jump much. The corridor behind you continues to close and just as the last one makes the jump the landing is no more and there is only a blank wall behind you. Now you have to get the door open, but you all fill the little landing completely and the door opens towards you, what do you do?

How do you draw that? My maps have lots of stars and notes that say do something weird here or time to up the tension and put a little fear into them. Stuff like that.

[derv]

Are you looking for a prescription oakesspalding ?

If so, U&WA suggests that you "thoughtfully place several of the most important treasures, with or without monstrous guardians..."

But, M&T p.26 gives us a table of distributions for magic items. There we find that out of all the rooms, the rooms that do contain treasure with magic should consist of:

3 out of 8 treasures (37.5%) contain only 1 item
2 out of 8 treasures (25%) contain 2 items
1 out of 8 treasures (12.5%) contain 3 items, excluding swords
1 out of 8 treasures (12.5%) contain 4 items, plus 1 potion
1 out of 8 treasures (12.5%) contain 5 items, plus 1 scroll, plus one potion

What's curious about M&T is the note that says, "All items will be guarded by appropriate monsters." Then it goes on to suggest that the GM simply roll on U&WA's encounter tables using the 5th & 6th level matrix. Sound good to you? A monster a day keeps the adventurers away  

[howandwhy99]

I don't think of it like value or distribution of treasure based on dungeon size.

I think of treasure like everything else, it has a level or value to it. This is gained by surmounting challenges in the game, usually monsters.

Some monster have no treasure, some have double for their level/XP award, but I do have an average for each level.

However, like the average monster rating the breadth and value of treasure varies widely. I actually have a pretty complicated procedure (which I'm not finished with) for what monsters have what kind of treasure and what amounts.

Not to mention buried treasure, lost treasure, treasure behind traps, and the occasional dropped treasure (though that rarely lasts).

[howandwhy99]

Treasure is like any game resource, it makes the game easier to play.

So treasure is rated in regards to its improvement of the PC for succeeding at the game (aka scoring points).

So, subjective or not, treasure/game resource availability has to be regulated or the game has the chance of randomly becoming ridiculously easy with too much treasure. Or on the other hand excessively difficult, if all treasure is absent (not just lost, a common RPG challenge) or overly lacking.

The idea is: the average environment has enough resources available (including treasure on shop lists) to facilitate the usage of all the strategies the game supports. In D&D these strategies and consequently the supporting resources are divided up into levels. (In other words, a progressing advancement)

To be clear: This is not prepackaging treasure bundles for expected player successes. This is populating the game world with treasure levels corresponding to challenge levels. The tough stuff has the good stuff. At least, valuables make their way to those who can hold on to them.

Just like Dungeon! boardgame (which should be my signature line)

[derv]

I have only two guiding principles when it comes to large "important" treasure hoards. So, if you ever delve into one of my dungeons, pay attention.

#1 The good stuff is always hidden.

Now, the treasure itself may be out in the open and strewn about. But, the room where it's located will always be hidden. You're not going to just stumble on it by chance. You're going to have to find it.

#2 The good stuff is always accompanied by bad stuff.

Most people have a natural avoidance of pain. Sometimes a party will not realize what they've found because they immediately run. So yes, I take M&T's suggestion to heart. You can expect all exceptional treasure hoards to be guarded.

That's it. Simple.

[ffilz]

Jun 11, 2017 8:02:31 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Bringing up the adventure module also raises another point, since Gary would not have considered himself to be a "Monty Haul DM", it makes me wonder how over the top some of the "Monty Haul" DMs must have been. Bitd (1975) we were on the light end of the treasure curve, based on the examples above. My first "dungeon" was at the bottom of a 500 ft stairwell and ran horizontally for about 100 miles long by 25 miles wide and it was split into 10 progressively tougher areas. There was no tangible treasure at all to collect only intangible treasures and a mostly 3rd level 16 PC party took about 25 hours to go through it between a Friday and a Saturday.

A couple issues with modules:

1. Remember that most of the early modules were originally tournament modules.

2. I have heard that the expectation was that the PCs would not find all of the treasure.

That said, in my campaign back in 1979-1981, I used a lot of modules, and my PCs found most of the treasure. I know we went through one "thin the PCs treasure hordes" exercises, and might have done it twice because they just had so darned much stuff people couldn't even figure out what they should use in a given circumstance.

It's also worth noting that the stocking tables are for rooms where the GM has not put something specific, so I think the actual expectation was more treasure than the stocking rules produce, but there's no real guidelines.

Frank


p.s. One more bit, it always amused me that the high level PCs provided in the modules had just a few magic items, and would probably more than double their collection if they got all the items from the module and split them. What that really suggests is that the PCs really were not expected to find most of the treasure, or would manage to destroy it (maybe a lot gets destroyed if you play fireballs destroying treasure per the rules...).

[Red Baron]

Jun 12, 2017 16:07:00 GMT -6 derv said:

If so, U&WA suggests that you "thoughtfully place several of the most important treasures, with or without monstrous guardians..."

But, M&T p.26 gives us a table of distributions for magic items. There we find that out of all the rooms, the rooms that do contain treasure with magic should consist of:

3 out of 8 treasures (37.5%) contain only 1 item
2 out of 8 treasures (25%) contain 2 items
1 out of 8 treasures (12.5%) contain 3 items, excluding swords
1 out of 8 treasures (12.5%) contain 4 items, plus 1 potion
1 out of 8 treasures (12.5%) contain 5 items, plus 1 scroll, plus one potion

That room generation occurs after important treasures/monsters have been placed. First you place the treasure vaults and dragons in there, and then you roll for the rest... so there will actually be slightly more magic/treasure per level than WotE calculated.

In addition, Mike said the entire first level should be hand crafted without random generation.

[derv]

Jun 13, 2017 6:57:01 GMT -6 Red Baron said:

That room generation occurs after important treasures/monsters have been placed. First you place the treasure vaults and dragons in there, and then you roll for the rest... so there will actually be slightly more magic/treasure per level than WotE calculated.

In addition, Mike said the entire first level should be hand crafted without random generation.

You should go ahead and craft your key treasures, if you like. I'm not arguing against it. But, with the absence of an example of what such a treasure looks like in the rules and instead we have two tables that neatly configure percentages for 100 room dungeon levels, why can't you use them as a guide line? Does this imply the big treasures should contain more than 7 magic items to be considered "the" treasure? Whose to say that my primary treasure has any monetary value? Perhaps the real treasure is a clue on each level to solving a puzzle that saves the Baron's daughter, who is held hostage on level 8.

Besides, clearly Michael is just looking for an excuse to be miserly in his distribution of gold and gems on the first level

*See Sample Level on p.4 of U&WA: 4 Ogres and 2000 gp! 1 potion. Basilisk. One, maybe 2 Trolls. What level could this be?

[derv]

I know most of you guys take the whole "thoughtfully place the most important treasures" thing to heart. And that's cool. But, honestly, I do the complete opposite, because I like rolling dice. It's fun. I generate all the areas first. Then I go back and modify, add, or tone down to fit my predilections.

[howandwhy99]

While I do not reward XP for Treasure, I do recognize it is a wonderful mechanism for balancing class level ability and ability from treasure.

If I have tons of treasure in my dungeon, the players are going to find a lot of it and advance quickly. If I have very little, the players will find very little and advance slowly.

Hypothetically, treasure never becomes an unknown quantity to balancing challenges rated by level. Like beating up monsters.

But then we need to take into account how most treasure is used up and any of it can be lost. (blasphemy!)

Regardless, if we have a lot of challenges and very little treasure (resources) for dealing with them, then the game is going to be harder. And vice versa. Monte Haul dungeons meant you (the player) didn't really need to play very well to gain all those levels or goodies.

[aldarron]

Jun 13, 2017 19:07:37 GMT -6 derv said:

I know most of you guys take the whole "thoughtfully place the most important treasures" thing to heart. And that's cool. But, honestly, I do the complete opposite, because I like rolling dice. It's fun. I generate all the areas first. Then I go back and modify, add, or tone down to fit my predilections.

Yep. We argued about this HERE . I'll simply point out once again that the "imaginative" ad hoc stocking of dungeon levels, while quite modern in appeal, completely ignores the design rules and tables meant to be used with the game.

D&D was co-written by Arneson, yes? If you look at what he did you will find that levels 1-6 of Blackmoor dungeon were completely stocked using the 3lbb tables - no specials. Level 1 of the TotF dungeon was partially randomly stocked with monsters and partially deliberately stocked with soldiers. Level 2 appears to be all randomly stocked except for the "special" monsters - the priests and the killer frog pool/island.

If you haven't seen it, You might find some interest in the article I wrote on stocking dungeons BTB in & 13 link

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2017 9:04:39 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Jun 13, 2017 19:07:37 GMT -6 derv said:

I know most of you guys take the whole "thoughtfully place the most important treasures" thing to heart. And that's cool. But, honestly, I do the complete opposite, because I like rolling dice. It's fun. I generate all the areas first. Then I go back and modify, add, or tone down to fit my predilections.

Yep. We argued about this HERE . I'll simply point out once again that the "imaginative" ad hoc stocking of dungeon levels, while quite modern in appeal, completely ignores the design rules and tables meant to be used with the game.

D&D was co-written by Arneson, yes? If you look at what he did you will find that levels 1-6 of Blackmoor dungeon were completely stocked using the 3lbb tables - no specials. Level 1 of the TotF dungeon was partially randomly stocked with monsters and partially deliberately stocked with soldiers. Level 2 appears to be all randomly stocked except for the "special" monsters - the priests and the killer frog pool/island.

If you haven't seen it, You might find some interest in the article I wrote on stocking dungeons BTB in & 13 link

Although I took the time to work out about what the approximate numbers are for this post above odd74.proboards.com/post/198051, I have never used random tables to roll up monsters or treasure from 1975 through the present. I create almost everything on the fly in real time. As I provide a framework for the world itself, I also provide a framework for the dungeon, number of levels, sub-levels etc. Then I design on the fly within the framework I designed. I do the big picture in advance and the details on the fly. When I rough out a dungeon the number of levels is always growing from the initial start point, along with everything else. But the internal dungeon layout, monsters, traps, treasure and other features are created on the fly, since I never did and do not now have anything close to enough time to roll everything out and I also have absolute confidence that I can do a better job on the fly than any random rolls could ever hope to accomplish.

As far as rolling dice, I love to do that too.

Also to add, over on my forum waysoftheearth made the following comment over two years ago:

Apr 8, 2015 5:40:53 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Easy Come, Easy Go
OD&D player characters can die really easily, particularly at low levels, but even at higher levels.  
On the other hand, even a 1st level noob can get lucky find a fabulous treasure or perilous magic item. As an example of the latter, in one of Makofan's games my 1st or 2nd level elf pulled a sword with multiple wishes and, soon after, a staff of wizardry! She made it to hero status and retired

These highs and lows of "wild circumstance" are facilitated by OD&D's tables, but are toned down in later editions which became all "balanced", and safe, and (IMHO) comparatively dull.  With this in mind players should expect to see multiple characters and treasures come and go during an OD&D campaign, which seems to me quite unlike the more modern approach.

"Wild circumstance" or "Chained Chaos" informs my reffing style, where truly anything might happen.

[derv]

Jun 14, 2017 9:04:39 GMT -6 aldarron said:

If you haven't seen it, You might find some interest in the article I wrote on stocking dungeons BTB in & 13 link

It's a well thought out article Dan. I think I'm on the same page as you with every thing except some minor procedural differences you present in part 5 & 6 and steps 7 & 8 of the article.

[oakesspalding]

Jun 14, 2017 9:04:39 GMT -6 aldarron said:

If you haven't seen it, You might find some interest in the article I wrote on stocking dungeons BTB in & 13 link

Thanks! That's an incredibly useful and fascinating article, aldarron.

As far as I can tell, though, you don't really deal with the issue of how much treasure or magic items should be found on each level. Of course, neither did Gygax & Co., really. I find this odd.

[waysoftheearth]

Jun 14, 2017 22:17:17 GMT -6 oakesspalding said:

As far as I can tell, though, you don't really deal with the issue of how much treasure or magic items should be found on each level. Of course, neither did Gygax & Co., really. I find this odd.

I guess I don't understand this. Seems to me the 3LBBs have very detailed tables for filling dungeons with treasure. If nothing else, these give us a baseline against which we can compare the "richness" of dungeons crafted by any other methods.

[oakesspalding]

Jun 15, 2017 4:54:24 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Jun 14, 2017 22:17:17 GMT -6 oakesspalding said:

As far as I can tell, though, you don't really deal with the issue of how much treasure or magic items should be found on each level. Of course, neither did Gygax & Co., really. I find this odd.

I guess I don't understand this. Seems to me the 3LBBs have very detailed tables for filling dungeons with treasure. If nothing else, these give us a baseline against which we can compare the "richness" of dungeons crafted by any other methods.

Well, surely the issue of how easy/hard or fast/slow characters could/should progress was contemplated by Gygax and Arneson. And a theory of treasure placement would, thus, follow. But instead we get a table that, for all I know, was put together on a whim by Gygax and had nothing to do with, say, his method for treasure placement in Greyhawk.

Or maybe it did, but there's no explanation for the theory behind it and no discussion of the crucial issue (to me) of the number of rooms. And, of course, the results are so naturally tippy, given that each room has a small chance of Jewelry, which in turn makes up 87% (or whatever) of all treasure value.

Your analysis - the 722 GP figure, etc. - of a few days ago is interesting and important. But I see no evidence that that expected value was a conscious intention on the part of the author or authors (though, of course, it might have been). It's also telling that you might have been the first commenter in 40 years to analyze and break down the numbers in that way, almost as if you had discovered a secret code. That doesn't reflect well on Gygax and Arneson's success at adequately putting forth a theory of or strategy for treasure placement.

[oldkat]

If the purpose of one's reason for playing, and subsequently for the role of the referee as well, is simply to level and gain treasure (i.e., magic) then (imo) there is no right or wrong way of providing tons of magic, treasure and monsters into the scenario. It amounts to why Monopoly has properties to be bought--to advance the player to make winning possible.

Some gamers, players and referees, find the term winning distasteful; yet if the above is applicable, then trying to make it not so by adding dressing and spices--in the quise of story telling, character development, group achievement, or whatever--is what it is: a quise that comes in the form of charts, tables and formulas to make it all palatable.

In this light, I say, d**n the torpedoes, and put what treasure, monsters, magic or whatever, anywhere you like. Either players will gain it (land on the property) or not. There is very little to be gained by trying to rationalize the process for doing any of this, so one might as well just do it.


ymmv

[Deleted]

Jun 15, 2017 8:27:30 GMT -6 oldkat said:

If the purpose of one's reason for playing, and subsequently for the role of the referee as well, is simply to level and gain treasure (i.e., magic) then (imo) there is no right or wrong way of providing tons of magic, treasure and monsters into the scenario. It amounts to why Monopoly has properties to be bought--to advance the player to make winning possible.

Some gamers, players and referees, find the term winning distasteful; yet if the above is applicable, then trying to make it not so by adding dressing and spices--in the quise of story telling, character development, group achievement, or whatever--is what it is: a quise that comes in the form of charts, tables and formulas to make it all palatable.

In this light, I say, d**n the torpedoes, and put what treasure, monsters, magic or whatever, anywhere you like. Either players will gain it (land on the property) or not. There is very little to be gained by trying to rationalize the process for doing any of this, so one might as well just do it.


ymmv

That is what I do as the ref, anything I like!