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Post by kesher on Dec 8, 2011 16:20:59 GMT -6
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 12, 2011 5:39:30 GMT -6
I got one a few days ago and really like it.
It's a pretty complete game for levels 1-5, has nice artwork to attract newcomers, seems pretty well organized, and is totally compatible with the full Pathfinder rules if a person wants to expand later.
A fantastic product overall. I don't really play 3E-based games, but this may get me to try Pathfinder.
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Dec 12, 2011 9:49:53 GMT -6
I got one a few days ago and really like it. It's a pretty complete game for levels 1-5, has nice artwork to attract newcomers, seems pretty well organized, and is totally compatible with the full Pathfinder rules if a person wants to expand later. A fantastic product overall. I don't really play 3E-based games, but this may get me to try Pathfinder. Looks like their master plan is working, then!  |
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3d6
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 62
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Post by 3d6 on Dec 12, 2011 10:53:22 GMT -6
I got one a few days ago and really like it. It's a pretty complete game for levels 1-5, has nice artwork to attract newcomers, seems pretty well organized, and is totally compatible with the full Pathfinder rules if a person wants to expand later. A fantastic product overall. I don't really play 3E-based games, but this may get me to try Pathfinder. Looks like their master plan is working, then! funny thing, I almost bought this a few weeks ago, it was pulling me in, but I didn't succomb... yet. Actually, I'll probably save my cps, but I would like to take a look at it. |
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Post by jeffb on Dec 13, 2011 19:14:16 GMT -6
This is a fantastic product- essentially it's a Moldvay & Mentzer combined set version of the PF game, but with more goodies (like the pawns, and flip mat) You'll see my post on the thread linked in the OP (same username) on page 1 of the Paizo thread. However, after actually sitting down with my son, creating a character and utilizing the BB, it has been a smash success- you can see my follow up thread below. We unfortunately have not been able to play since this post due to other life issues eating up our time, but he has been begging me to play again, and we will. paizo.com/forums/dmtz4tgc?Beginner-Box-session-update |
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Post by kesher on Dec 13, 2011 19:32:41 GMT -6
Oh, hey jeff, shoulda recognized your name!  I've read the whole thing now and, yeah, it really, really has that classic Basic set feel. Or, put another way, it feels FUN. Even the box itself is sturdy--I could easily pack everything needed to play (including my ipad!) inside. My 8 year-old saw the box and the books and was all over them. He's played a number of ODD sessions back when I was running a group, but the prolific and excellent art really caught his eye. Flipping through the monsters, he immediately decided he wanted to play a fire elemental... Anyhow, this thing is a home run, afaic. And as for continuing past 5th level, even if you didn't want to use the Core Rulebook, it'd be easy to houserule by analogy all the way up to 10th level at least. |
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Post by jeffb on Dec 14, 2011 19:22:22 GMT -6
No worries Yeah, I've got mine stuffed with other PF materials as well including a blank flip-mat, the GM screen, and I just got the "Dungeon" flip mat today- I'm debating whether to design my own dungeon around it, or just utilize it for Crypt of the Everflame (as the module was written around that map). I think CotE may be a bit too much for my son, as there are some nasty traps and encounters and it was meant to introduce players to several of the new (compared to 3.5) PF rules like re-worked grappling and such, but not necc to be a novice level adventure for new players to RPGs. And of course dice, pencils, scratch paper are stuffed in there. Its probably the nicest box of any boxed RPG product I've ever owned. I definitely will steal some bits from the PF core book and Bestiaries as necc- but I'd still prefer the simpler stat blocks, and rules of the BB. I'd pay full retail for an "expert" level set with more monsters, items, spells, pawns, etc. One thing I love is that the BB has enough material to ensure you can play for a long time- just like the old sets did (and you'll notice, the BB is dedicated to Frank, Tom, Dave, and I believe Dr. Holmes as well). Also, they atually teach a DM how to design his own dungeon utilizing the pre-draw map, there are several areas with plot hooks, and there is the mini sandbox of sandpoint with other adventuring sites for the DM to create. I personally am not a big fan of Golarion overall, but the area they picked is perfect for old school sandbox play, much like the original "known world" material in the expert set. I plan on designing my own setting around sandpoint. I really, really am enjoying using this with my boy, and frankly I feel like a kid again reading the BB. It's got a great emphasis on playing a fun game of adventure, instead of beating kids (and adults!) over the head with rules, rules, and more rules like the corebook and other "full size" PF products. I have been whipping up all kinds of stuff-very inspiring product. I think PF has managed to do what WOTC never could, and TSR hasn't been able to since 1983. Forgot to mention, for XMAS I bought my son a couple sets of new dice, and a dice bag , along with a very fun WOTC product from 2007 entitled "Dungeon Survival Guide" which basically is a glossy full color rundown for newbies on how D&D works in the general sense (no rules- more like how to explore, what kind of equipment to bring, and use in the dungeon, how to prepare for different adventuring environments, etc) along with giving overviews of many of the classic D&D Dungeons like CG, UM, the Ghost Tower, Glacial Rift, Snurre's Hall, Aererak's tomb, Caves of Chaos, etc etc. Was originally a $20.00 book, and grabbed it new of Amazon for $1.99 + shipping from an AMazon marketplace seller. |
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Post by Zenopus on Dec 14, 2011 20:30:35 GMT -6
No worries just like the old sets did (and you'll notice, the BB is dedicated to Frank, Tom, Dave, and I believe Dr. Holmes as well). Cool...I hadn't heard that. Could I get an exact quote? I put the PF BB as the latest incarnation in 35 years of D&D Basic Sets. |
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Azafuse
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 245
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Post by Azafuse on Dec 15, 2011 0:20:34 GMT -6
Cool...I hadn't heard that. Could I get an exact quote? This dedication appears in the Table of Contents page of the Hero's Handbook, between Playtesters' list and PRD's URL. |
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Post by kesher on Dec 15, 2011 11:22:05 GMT -6
That's truly awesome! I've read through the whole thing now, and continue to be impressed. You're right on, Jeff, when you say: My oldest sat down this morning and pored over the entire GM's book, goggling magic items and looking at monsters saying "I could beat that one, but that one'd KILL me!" It captures that sense of wonder, which, and I've been thinking about this, is what the game was for me before the haze of geek culture (which I willingly joined) started to obscure the FUN. It's in the overall design, from the box inwards. The Moldvay Basic, which will always be dear to my heart simply wouldn't sell today, given its layout, predominance of text, black and white illustrations, etc. Kids for sure (and many of us adults!) simply don't process information that way anymore. The Core Book is somewhere in-between, I'd say. I do want to be sure to point out that, while this is a basic set, and is pretty solidly targeted at, say, a 13 or 14 year-old in terms of language, it ain't just for kids. I don't see anything here to turn off your average OSR enthusiast. I'm already working on getting a group of my son's friends together to play, and I'm tempted to venture out into G+ as well... Oh, and that DSG looks like just the ticket for Hanukkah...  |
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Post by jeffb on Dec 16, 2011 10:31:50 GMT -6
No doubt, it's more than just for kids- AFAIC, it's perfect for ME (and the only 3.x system or derivative I've bothered to run since 2003). I've always liked the 3.x system ON THE SURFACE (i.e. unified mechanic, 3 saves, the idea of feats and limited #s of skills, and some other things), but you can have the "whole enchilada" of rules complexities, corner cases, and options out the wazoo. I gave up many moons ago on that style of game. I bought the PF core books earlier in the year just to see what had changed from 3.5, and while I liked some of the simplifications of combat maneuvers, skills and such, there were just as many added complexities. I'd never even bother trying to run it. I'd rather run 4E if I want added complexity. But I'll run the BB all day long as my main game. And yes, if you can find the DSG for a good price as I did, it's worth it as an entertaining read, as well as great for newbies to the game |
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Post by coffee on Dec 16, 2011 22:01:07 GMT -6
Bottom line: Will this set allow me to play Pathfinder without bringing out the rules lawyer in me?
Because that's the real reason I quit 3.5. It was turning me into something I don't like.
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Post by kesher on Dec 17, 2011 11:01:45 GMT -6
coffee: Yes. In fact, we're gonna have to try it, probably, to make sure. I also just read that they're going to be releasing a box with the beautiful, thick cardboard pawns for the entire Bestiary, and a third party has started producing Basic Path Adventures... |
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Post by Zenopus on Dec 18, 2011 14:41:17 GMT -6
Cool...I hadn't heard that. Could I get an exact quote? This dedication appears in the Table of Contents page of the Hero's Handbook, between Playtesters' list and PRD's URL. Thanks much, Azafuse! I used this info for a blog post: Pathfinder Beginner Box homage to TSR Basic Sets |
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Post by coffee on Dec 19, 2011 21:08:52 GMT -6
coffee: Yes. In fact, we're gonna have to try it, probably, to make sure. Name the time and place. I'll be there. |
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Post by giantbat on Dec 19, 2011 23:44:09 GMT -6
coffee: Yes. In fact, we're gonna have to try it, probably, to make sure. Name the time and place. I'll be there. Kesher, I need an opportunity to return The Man of Gold... |
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Post by kesher on Dec 20, 2011 0:13:14 GMT -6
coffee: Yes. In fact, we're gonna have to try it, probably, to make sure. Name the time and place. I'll be there. Alright, both coffee and giantbat, you've successfully twisted my arm! I'll soon be in contact... Did I just hijack my own thread? |
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Post by giantbat on Dec 21, 2011 6:29:16 GMT -6
I picked up a copy last night and it's pretty good. I like the graphic design. It reminds me of an NES instruction manual. I detest the art, but that's very much a matter of personal taste, and not why I purchase game products. I was most impressed by the amount and quality of advice for the first-time DM, compared to the classic basic books.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 21, 2011 8:16:47 GMT -6
And how I wish that WotC would have created something like this for 4E, with full character generation and limited options, instead of those intro sets they made. The Pathfinder set is clear, well organized, and useful.
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Post by kesher on Dec 21, 2011 11:03:14 GMT -6
I picked up a copy last night and it's pretty good. I like the graphic design. It reminds me of an NES instruction manual. I detest the art, but that's very much a matter of personal taste, and not why I purchase game products. I was most impressed by the amount and quality of advice for the first-time DM, compared to the classic basic books. The NES manual is a perfect comparison! Which, of course, will turn some off, but it's looking ahead to what current potential players are looking for in terms of an actual visual experience, which is way different than those of us who've been playing for decades! Most of the art I can take or leave, but I will admit a love of Wayne Reynolds, especially since the guy is still doing all of his work with acrylic paint on a canvas. You're also right on with the advice--I thought it was brilliant to include a complete adventure, and then add the set-up for a follow-up, after coaching the neophyte DM on how to complete it. Pure gold. |
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eris
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 161
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Post by eris on Dec 21, 2011 11:44:06 GMT -6
Bottom line: Will this set allow me to play Pathfinder without bringing out the rules lawyer in me? Because that's the real reason I quit 3.5. It was turning me into something I don't like. +1 I like simple systems, but some of the guys I play with will obsess over rules. Without *rules* they settle for rulings, and rulings are good! |
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Post by coffee on Jan 20, 2012 16:01:06 GMT -6
Name the time and place. I'll be there. Alright, both coffee and giantbat, you've successfully twisted my arm! I'll soon be in contact... Did I just hijack my own thread? Any further word on this? Just checking... |
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Aplus
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 353
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Post by Aplus on Jan 20, 2012 23:39:51 GMT -6
For anyone that has the BB and wants more content without buying a bunch of stuff, check out d20pfsrd.com It has pretty much everything.
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Post by kesher on Jan 25, 2012 7:54:25 GMT -6
Alright, both coffee and giantbat, you've successfully twisted my arm! I'll soon be in contact... Did I just hijack my own thread? Any further word on this? Just checking... I apologize, my friend, the word is "shut yer trap, kesher." I got excited, but realistically have too much going on to do any gaming before maybe August.  |
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Post by coffee on Jan 25, 2012 13:25:10 GMT -6
I'm tellin' ya, Google+.
So much less hassle than going somewhere...
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3d6
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 62
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Post by 3d6 on Feb 8, 2012 19:41:57 GMT -6
Sorry for the Raise Thread...but I finally got this, read it. It’s fine. I hope it’s successful. In future years, when PF is OS, it may well be remembered fondly. I have a lot of thoughts about it, more than I thought I would, many good. Sometime I may get them all written down.
The advice about what’s not covered by rules, and the changing role, or perception of the role, of the DM hit me:
From PF BB:
“It is possible for the PCs to attempt to do something that is not covered in these rules, but for the first adventure, it is best to stay within the bounds of the adventure.”
“If the players seem stuck… you can give them hints like, ‘Do you want to open the door?’ or ‘Who wants to look for hidden treasure?’”
“Make sure the PCs end up with this sword before they proceed toward Area 10.”
“If there is no clear answer, you should probably side with the ruling that makes the game more fun for everyone.”
DM = fun-maximizer. OK, but... if every individual decision is made on this basis, the actual long-term, big-picture fun/memorability of a campaign potentially diminishes. That’s my theory, anyway.
Compared with Mike Carr, in B1, “How to be an Effective Dungeon Master”:
“D&D is free-flowing, and often goes in unknown and unpredictable directions.”
DM’s “foremost concern should be to provide an enjoyable game which is challenging to the players” (so that’s kind of the same)
“a good DM… does not attempt to influence player actions or channel the activity in a particular direction”
The DM “should do all he can to assist players in their quest without actually providing important information unless the players themselves discover it.”
There _is_ a lot to commend the PF BB, I’m not intending to fire a salvo here in the long-fought slog aka ed. wars, even though I know I risk being perceived that way. Not claiming any brand new insight, either, I was just struck by some the similarities and differences.
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Post by coffee on Feb 10, 2012 0:25:58 GMT -6
You do raise some valid points, 3d6, but on the whole I think it's a lot better than the 4e beginner set. At least this one lets you go up to level 5! (Please note: I don't mean this as edition bashing; I'm just comparing two products.)
There are people who could run an entire campaign with just what's in here (and, of course, their own imaginations).
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Post by giantbat on Nov 25, 2012 12:45:48 GMT -6
Compared with Mike Carr, in B1, “How to be an Effective Dungeon Master” Good call. I frequently forget how much advice is present in B1. I was only comparing the advice in PFBB against advice in the rulebooks contained in previous beginner sets, and didn't consider the advice in some of the early beginner set modules. B1 is definitely a standout in that regard. I think I'll read it again today. |
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Post by ritt on Nov 26, 2012 17:27:22 GMT -6
A friend freelances for Paizo and I recall him telling me over burgers some time ago (A year ago? A year and a half? Two? Can't remember.) they they were spending a lot of work and a VERY serious amount of money play-testing and focus-grouping this to make it as beginner-friendly as possible. I'm very glad to hear that the effort paid off.
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Post by jeffb on Nov 27, 2012 15:14:14 GMT -6
After seeing this bumped I figured I would give a review after nearly one year of play.
After finishing up the PFBB adventure we moved on to Crypt of the Everflame. Which due to our infrequent sessions took awhile. It was great fun,but clearly my son was getting frustrated with tactics, and long combats. He just wanted to have exciting but quick fights and EXPLORE THE UNKNOWN, and soak up setting fluff ( churches, gods, ancient history, geography,.etc).
So I converted his fighter and started a brand new S&W/ODD mish mash game. I pulled some character abilities and feats from PF,.watered them down a little, whipped out my Forgotten Realms OGB, thpught up a quick adventure, grabbed a couple old geomorphs, rolled up some NPCs for the party, cracked the 1e MM, and we played sans grid in TOTM style, as I prefer and have done so most of my gaming life. It was awesome, he had more.fun than ever, and so did I. Fast fights, more time to do.stuff.
Recently I made some changes in order to accomodate my likes as well. In essence we are playing stripped down 3.x game mechanics, with a handful.of skills, feats,.etc. the fights are just as fast, but they are more tense as the numbers are a bit more even,.and everybody gets hurt and can connect a bit more often. I use a totally stripped down stat block for the 3.0 monsters, and essnetially arulings not rules attitude. Its 3.x dice mechanics with OD&D style. I eliminated all the tactical grid based feats and combat stuff. We roll straight d6 initiative each round.
His party is up to 4th level now,. They have spoiled a Zhentarim takeover of a dwarven clan's gem mine east of Iriaebor, earning emnity of both The Black Network and the Church of Bane. Freed by my son Blodgett the Halfling thief joined the party and as a thank you shared a a rare piece of parchment with a map showing where and when the next appearance of The Ghost Tower would be. The party hired on as caravan guards to The Dalelands in order to make for a safer journey, and earned good coin defending the caravan against Hobgoblin Brigands. Within days of arriving in Shadowdale they set off west to the Desertmouth Mountains to await the Tower. Was a tough adventure finding themselves in some strange demiplane that was the domain of a 1000 year old Netherese Wizard and not the simple tower it appeared to be. Rivers of oil and trapped rope bridges, Hellhound pets, Guardian Statues nor the reanimated dead bodies of another party from some other place in time and space the Tower had travelled to could stop the stalwart adventurers. But the Wizard himself, one Ulission, could and did. The threat of his magical might turned our heros into cowards and they agreed to help Ulission with some rare spell components he needs,but is no longer able to fetch himself, having been banished from entering Faerun for ever more for his crimes against the now millenia dead empire buried under the desert sands of Anauroch. They have made a deal with a Devil, and know it.
But for now they have returned to the relative safety of The Old Skull Inn in Shadowdale where they ponder their next move. Investigate the disappearance of the local Priest of Tyr? East to Harrowdale Town, and find the vanished resident of a local lighthouse? South to Battledale to explore the ruined manor of the only man who was able to unite The Dales and call himself King 500 years ago? Or maybe they should do some investigation into the strange gem Ulission gave to each of them. Thrice Blodgett has sold the lovely blueish green trinket to local merchants, and each morning after the sale the gem has reappeared in his hidden belt purse.
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