B/X D&D Massive Player Casualties

[naleax]

Greetings to everyone!

I need some help or advice. I've been running B/X D&D for my gaming group for a little while now. Were 7 sessions into a homebrew megadungeon campaign, and thus far the players have lost 13 characters and a scad of henchmen. The players are very disheartened with the amount of character deaths and no one has reached level 2.

So, i feel like this is a failing on my part. Some of the players have advised me not to include creatures above 1hd on the first level of the megadungeon. The first level includes mostly goblins, hobgoblins, cultists of 1HD or lower, and a couple of 2HD bugbears, and a couple of 4HD ogres. There are clues in place to make the players aware of the ogres so that they can avoid them, or at least prepare a tactical assault against them. All together the dungeon is 110 rooms with about 20 rooms containing monsters.

The group has done very well in combats where they get the jump on monsters. They have in fact killed 1 of the Ogres without a single character death in that encounter. Mainly in part because they took cover and fired volleys of arrows as it approached them from a darkened room.

In other encounters they have used tactics and once even tried to parley with some hobgoblins which led to a short term alliance until the hobgoblins figured out they were being lied to.

So, about 50% of the time they think before they fight, but the other 50% of the time the simple answer is to CHARGE! which usually leads to 1 or 2 of them dying. They also have a 100% henchmen casualty rate, as the the henchmen usually get pushed to the front where they die.

So, 7 sessions in we have 13 player characters dead and about 20 henchmen lost, mostly from combat.

Now, I used caves of chaos as a baseline for populating my megadungeon. I decided to include a few tough monsters to be avoided, but I pared the encounters down considerably because I thought the group would have a really hard time since they are mostly 3E/C&C players and the B/X rules are new to them. Theres not many encounters with more than 4 or 5 monsters and those are 1hd. The larger HD encounters are with single monsters and as I said before I usually have a descritpive warning to the characters that their is something dangerous ahead.

I should mention that the group contains 5 players and they usually have up to 4 or 5 henchmen per session. They don't have any spell casters i.e. clerics or magic users, which I see as a serious problem. Although, they did. Unfortunately the spell casters died early on and no one rolled new ones.

Any advice from experienced B/X DM's would be most appreciated. I want my players to have fun, so i'm considering mulligans, fudging rolls and paring back the encounters to 1-1 hd creatures with minor attacks and getting rid of the 1HD and higher creatures. I've also decided to throw in a load of treasure so they can get to level 2 quickly. But, i'm afraid to bastardize the game by making it to easy for them and allowing them to return to the old I CHARGE motto initiating encounters. I also can't stand fudging dice rolls, but i'll do it, if it will keep players alive and interested in the game.

Lastly we've been rolling 3d6 in order to generate characters. We're thinking about changing that to 3d6 in any order you want.

[geoffrey]

Honestly, it sounds to me like you're doing it right. Check this out:
www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=34964

Your campaign and Lyle Fitgerald's campaign in 1975-78 have basically the same casualty rate. It sounds like a lot of fun to me!

But if you want to lower your casualty rate, I'd do the following:

1. Drop save or die situations.

2. Use the "unconscious at 0 hp, dead at -10 hp" rule.

3. Religiously use morale checks. Remember that monsters have to make a morale check when the FIRST of their number is slain. Thus a group of 6 orcs might run away after only 1 orc is slain.

4. Also religiously use the reaction table. Most monsters most of the time will NOT attack. I don't care if their alignment is chaotic. Check-out that table. You will see that, if the players want to survive, they can avoid combat most of the time that they encounter monsters.

[mgtremaine]

7 session and no one has leveled, it sounds like you are not giving out enough XP. That's just my gut reaction to what you posted. XP and gold go a long way to survivability. Better equipment, more hit points, more spells, it makes a big difference

You also might consider max hp for PC's at first level.

-Mike

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 11:42:24 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

4. Also religiously use the reaction table. Most monsters most of the time will NOT attack. I don't care if their alignment is chaotic. Check-out that table. You will see that, if the players want to survive, they can avoid combat most of the time that they encounter monsters.

Wow I can't believe i forgot about this, i remember this from the rules but i never use the chart! Thanks for bringing this up. Now that I've been reminded i will be sure to start using this. Another layer to possibly avoid a fight will be a good thing for the players. Thanks Geoffery!

[verhaden]

To add to the above, though I'm guilty of ignoring it both as a player and a referee, is that you should really emphasize the 1 g.p. = 1 x.p. rule. If they can avoid, parley, confuse, distract, trick, etc. a monster to grab some loot, they should level faster and get some breathing room.

I also run with a 1HD = 100 XP rule from OD&D.

***

See if they'd be willing to pull money for a hired-cleric or wizard, if nobody wants to play one themselves.

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 11:44:50 GMT -6 mgtremaine said:

7 session and no one has leveled, it sounds like you are not giving out enough XP. That's just my gut reaction to what you posted. XP and gold go a long way to survivability. Better equipment, more hit points, more spells, it makes a big difference

Agreed! I've already decided to up the treasure. B/X treasure generation is what i used to stock the dungeon but i think i'll double or even triple what i've generated already. B/X tables don't seem to be very generous or at least for the beginning levels.

Aug 7, 2012 11:44:50 GMT -6 mgtremaine said:

You also might consider max hp for PC's at first level.

I've already allowed them to max their first hit die from the beginning of the campaign. A couple of sessions ago i allowed them to roll their 2nd level HD and add that to their max 1st level HD even though they weren't 2nd level to help them.

Thanks Mike!

[Deleted]

Making the game a bit more forgiving, as Geoffrey suggested, is one option. Doing that can sometimes have the undesired outcome of encouraging careless play. The same goes for "arrange to taste" ability scores ... there's nothing wrong with that if your players find that fun but it also sends the message to the players the game is broken. IMO the game isn't broken, the players just need to be a bit more clever.

I'd also like to point out that Caves of Chaos are pretty combat heavy and not completely representative of how a typical dungeon should be run.

You might have a talk with your players and emphasize to them that the early versions of D&D are more about exploration rather than combat. Truly, it sounds as if they are charging in to do battle with no regard for whether they are equal to the challenge. This should most assuredly be a tactical consideration.

Mike Mornard is a poster here. He is one of the few (maybe only?) person who played in all three formative campaigns for D&D: Greyhawk, Blackmoor, and Tekumel. He summed a major characteristic of good play:

Greed will get you killed in OD&D, and a lack of greed is a powerful weapon.

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 12:13:20 GMT -6 verhaden said:

To add to the above, though I'm guilty of ignoring it both as a player and a referee, is that you should really emphasize the 1 g.p. = 1 x.p. rule. If they can avoid, parley, confuse, distract, trick, etc. a monster to grab some loot, they should level faster and get some breathing room.

I also run with a 1HD = 100 XP rule from OD&D.

***

See if they'd be willing to pull money for a hired-cleric or wizard, if nobody wants to play one themselves.

Verhaden, those are great ideas, i'm trying to get them to think outside the box and use some of those ideas rather than what we're used to which is basically kill monsters, kill more monsters and they do but they do fall back to the kill monster motto. They are great players, just used to more modern way of doing things. Old habits are hard to break. I really like distract thats a new one and i'll suggest it to them.

Ahh, now you're talking. Hiring a wizard, or cleric would be a good idea. I had a NPC cleric join them on one adventure. I'll roll some up and have them hear a rumor or two about a traveling wizard seeking magic a.k.a Spugnort.

Thanks!

[cadriel]

The Caves of Chaos are fairly packed with monsters, relative to what a classic dungeon was supposed to be. I think the tables in Moldvay Basic give about the right distribution of rooms - you should wind up with more rooms without monsters than in any of the published modules. Players should have the chance to avoid combat both in dungeon design and in encounter reaction, as described above. If the PCs can get away with some loot without having to fight, you should be able to have at least a cleric or thief hit level 2 without too much problem.

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 12:23:17 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

Making the game a bit more forgiving, as Geoffrey suggested, is one option. Doing that can sometimes have the undesired outcome of encouraging careless play. The same goes for "arrange to taste" ability scores ... there's nothing wrong with that if your players find that fun but it also sends the message to the players the game is broken. IMO the game isn't broken, the players just need to be a bit more clever.

Thats what i'm afraid of, "Loosening the belt" so to speak and losing the spirit of B/X and inviting poor play.

Aug 7, 2012 12:23:17 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

I'd also like to point out that Caves of Chaos are pretty combat heavy and not completely representative of how a typical dungeon should be run.

I agree. The megadungeon i've created is fashioned from moldvay B/X generation. I started using Caves of Chaos as a rough guideline and pared the amount of monsters way down after i realized how tough it would be. Out of the 110 rooms i have about 20 populated with monsters.

Aug 7, 2012 12:23:17 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

You might have a talk with your players and emphasize to them that the early versions of D&D are more about exploration rather than combat. Truly, it sounds as if they are charging in to do battle with no regard for whether they are equal to the challenge. This should most assuredly be a tactical consideration.

I have done this over and over. I asked them all to read the quick primer to old school gaming, but i'm not sure how many actually did so. We've also discussed the differences, and while i see them apply some of it they tend to not apply it in other similar situations. Instead falling back on old habits that combat will solve the problem.

Aug 7, 2012 12:23:17 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

Mike Mornard is a poster here. He is one of the few (maybe only?) person who played in all three formative campaigns for D&D: Greyhawk, Blackmoor, and Tekumel. He summed a major characteristic of good play:

Greed will get you killed in OD&D, and a lack of greed is a powerful weapon.

Good advice. Thanks

[Deleted]

Well, then one last reminder might be in order!

Remind your players that the majority of experience in OD&D (and its immediate brethren) comes from treasure, not monsters. They would be well served by avoiding combat as often as possible.

You might encourage this by granting XP bonuses for cleverly avoiding or outwitting monsters. Or, as pointed out already, have monsters negotiate with players, or agree to a truce with them to get their help against a troublesome rival.

[naleax]

What about the type of monsters on Level 1. Should I not be including higher level HD creatures. The reason i added some higher HD creatures to the 1st level was to present threats that should be avoided, obstacles that have to be worked around, or even present opportunities to parley and strike deals with. As I said before Level 1 consists mostly of 1-1HD goblins, 1HD hobgoblins, 1 and 2 HD cultists, and a couple of 2HD bugbears and a couple of 4HD Ogres but the majority are 1HD creatues. Oh and a 3HD Cave Spider.

Of course all the higher hit die creatures have warnings associated with them. 1 ogre makes a lot of noise alerting the PCs to his presence. An NPC warns the PCs about the Cave Spider and tells them where its lair is etc..

Should i remove these potentially rough encounters from level 1?

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 14:25:30 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

Well, then one last reminder might be in order!

Remind your players that the majority of experience in OD&D (and its immediate brethren) comes from treasure, not monsters. They would be well served by avoiding combat as often as possible.

They definitely know that treasure equals exp. I'm pretty sure I need to up the amount they are finding though. The B/X treasure generation doesn't really give enough in my opinion.

Aug 7, 2012 14:25:30 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

You might encourage this by granting XP bonuses for cleverly avoiding or outwitting monsters. Or, as pointed out already, have monsters negotiate with players, or agree to a truce with them to get their help against a troublesome rival.

This is great advice and i really like this idea. I really want to encourage cleverness and great ideas, so i will definitely start giving some XP bonuses for this. Hopefully it catches on like wildfire.

Thanks Cameron!

[Deleted]

I'd say leave them in. Players should not be encouraged to believe they are the equal of any creature they encounter. You might limit the number a bit, and you've already thought of rumors in town of a fearsome creature.

Perhaps in a post-game session you might ask the players, why did you ignore Tommy the Torch-bearers warning about the fierce cave spider?

Warn the players you aren't looking to skunk them, but if they choose to throw themselves upon a sword, then ...

[Deleted]

Aug 7, 2012 14:38:04 GMT -6 naleax said:

The B/X treasure generation doesn't really give enough in my opinion.

Part of the problem may be the levels of treasure are adequate but the PCs just aren't finding all of it?

Or, are they?

In either case, adding more is probably a good solution; at least as a temporary fix.

You don't want treasure sitting around with a big sign stating "Monster's Hoard Here!" but you don't want it hidden so carefully that players start searching a room like "The Purloined Letter". Maybe have an NPC find some nice bit in a "standard" hiding place? "Hey guys! This chest has a false bottom, I wonder what's in there?"

Obviously, just use this once or twice to spur them in the right direction!

Have an exalt for "making the game yours"!

[talysman]

(1) Not only up te treasure, but make some treasure unguarded (but hidden or trapped.) I don't know if B/X includes that, but the random stocking rules in U&WA included unguarded treasure.

(2) Provide more opportunities to spot monsters from a distance, so that they can plan a little better.

(3) It just may be that your players know what the old school ideal is, but prefer to get some fightin'. Add some extra 1/2 HD or less monsters in small bands, to give 'em some satisfaction. You might also want to reduce the numbers of hobgoblins, at least outside of a known area.

(4) If you aren't using morale rules, USE MORALE RULES. Sometimes the monsters run. Goblins in particular are known cowards and have a -1 to morale in OD&D. I'm pretty sure B/X still included morale in some form, so if you are stocking monsters based on B/X or using Caves of Chaos as an example, but *not* using morale, you will get massive PC deaths.

[waysoftheearth]

Your game sounds awesome Naleax! It's a real shame that the players are losing heart, but I'm sure you can turn it around.

A lot of folks have already made some great suggestions, but here are a few more things that spring to mind...

* Lessons learned: Rushing into combat willy nilly gives the players great odds of dying. That's combat. If they employ this strategy then they're really tossing away their best chances of success. Their best chances lie in trickery, ambush, and the gleaning of other "unfair" advantages so that when they do enter combat, they have the upper hand.

* Encourage trickery: Allow the players to buy tar, sulphur, kegs of oil, phosphorous, bundles of kindle, and other oddities. Most goblin types are disadvantaged in bright light (e.g., phosphorous flares), burning oil is a neat way to bar passages, create choke points, and also a useful area affect weapon. Blocking doors and setting fires can be very deadly underground, choking the enemy, or smoking them out into a missile ambush. Shovels, crowbars and carpentry tools can be incredibly useful in the dungeon -- every party should have them! The players can make use of packs of hunting dogs, stampeding cattle, and even flocks of squawking chickens can be used to confuse or at least distract the enemy (yep, I've seen chickens in the dungeon ;D ). Most monsters will be distracted by food and players have been known carry fouled portions for exactly this purpose (also another use for the reversed purify food and water spell)... and so on. Bribes of gold of other treasure can buy safe passage without combat, or even get some monsters to join ranks with the players. Get them thinking!

* If the dungeon is combat centric, encourage the players to focus on fighter PCs, at least until they have made some inroads. A party of 6 fighters is going to be much tougher than a party mostly of thieves and magic-users.

* Non magical healing: Allow injured PCs to recover 1-6 hit points simply by resting after each combat.

* Inheritance: In OD&D, at least, the player is entitled to inherit goods for his next PC if his current PC should die (subject to their being recovered, of course). The result should be that the player should have the benefit of better/more starting gear for each successive PC.

* If lack of progress to higher PC levels is the real problem, the DM could rule that XP is awarded to the player rather than the character, so that they player retains his XP total, or half of it perhaps, even if he has to start a new PC.


Just a few thoughts... best of luck

[geoffrey]

Aug 7, 2012 14:15:44 GMT -6 naleax said:

I asked them all to read the quick primer to old school gaming, but i'm not sure how many actually did so.

If your players are similar to mine, the answer is ZERO. My players are functional illiterates. The last time I tried to get them to read something between games was a 100-word paragraph. When we met a week or two later to play, NONE of them had read a single word of it. "I didn't have time."

I've since given up. ;D

[paulg]

1. Use the monster reactions table. If you get an "uncertain" result, prompt the players by having the monsters ask "what's in it for me?" or "how much is it worth to you?" or "maybe I give you X if you distract/kill/prank this other dungeon faction".

2. Use morale rules. Some monsters will run away. Others might surrender to the PC's, which is always fun.

3. They should learn to run away. Seriously. As a player, depending on the referee and the dungeon, I might flee from half the encounters, especially (treasureless) wandering monsters. Review the flight and evasion rules with your players before the start of the next session.

Your rate of character death and lack of advancement after 7 sessions is not far outside the norm, especially if one or two of them are close to leveling. If they've just been unlucky finding the big scores, and the players are discouraged, try dropping a treasure map in their laps. This should of course be guarded by appropriate challenges.

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 17:09:04 GMT -6 talysman said:

(1) Not only up te treasure, but make some treasure unguarded (but hidden or trapped.) I don't know if B/X includes that, but the random stocking rules in U&WA included unguarded treasure.

I've definitely done this. Some they have found as they are usually pretty thorough about searching.

Aug 7, 2012 17:09:04 GMT -6 talysman said:

(2) Provide more opportunities to spot monsters from a distance, so that they can plan a little better.

(3) It just may be that your players know what the old school ideal is, but prefer to get some fightin'. Add some extra 1/2 HD or less monsters in small bands, to give 'em some satisfaction. You might also want to reduce the numbers of hobgoblins, at least outside of a known area.

Talysman (2) is excellent and I think B/X has a rule for rolling encounter distance for wandering monsters. I'll start doing this so the PC's have a chance to make some decisions, but their is still the surprise roll which i think i'll only roll if the encounter necessitates it.

Great idea, they definitely like to fight and be heroic. I think i'll change the wandering monsters list to include 50% smaller creatures such as 1-1 hd and lower. Combined with monster reactions this should prove fun and interesting and hopefully give the players a chance to have the upper hand and get the need to put the beat down on something out of their systems.

Aug 7, 2012 17:09:04 GMT -6 talysman said:

(4) If you aren't using morale rules, USE MORALE RULES. Sometimes the monsters run. Goblins in particular are known cowards and have a -1 to morale in OD&D. I'm pretty sure B/X still included morale in some form, so if you are stocking monsters based on B/X or using Caves of Chaos as an example, but *not* using morale, you will get massive PC deaths.

We do use morale rules, and this is something I need to remember to roll. I've been much better at remembering to use it lately since we follow the standard B/X order of combat pretty religiously.

Thanks Talysman!

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 17:58:19 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Your game sounds awesome Naleax! It's a real shame that the players are losing heart, but I'm sure you can turn it around.

A lot of folks have already made some great suggestions, but here are a few more things that spring to mind...

* Lessons learned: Rushing into combat willy nilly gives the players great odds of dying. That's combat. If they employ this strategy then they're really tossing away their best chances of success. Their best chances lie in trickery, ambush, and the gleaning of other "unfair" advantages so that when they do enter combat, they have the upper hand.

* Encourage trickery: Allow the players to buy tar, sulphur, kegs of oil, phosphorous, bundles of kindle, and other oddities. Most goblin types are disadvantaged in bright light (e.g., phosphorous flares), burning oil is a neat way to bar passages, create choke points, and also a useful area affect weapon. Blocking doors and setting fires can be very deadly underground, choking the enemy, or smoking them out into a missile ambush. Shovels, crowbars and carpentry tools can be incredibly useful in the dungeon -- every party should have them! The players can make use of packs of hunting dogs, stampeding cattle, and even flocks of squawking chickens can be used to confuse or at least distract the enemy (yep, I've seen chickens in the dungeon ;D ). Most monsters will be distracted by food and players have been known carry fouled portions for exactly this purpose (also another use for the reversed purify food and water spell)... and so on. Bribes of gold of other treasure can buy safe passage without combat, or even get some monsters to join ranks with the players. Get them thinking!

* If the dungeon is combat centric, encourage the players to focus on fighter PCs, at least until they have made some inroads. A party of 6 fighters is going to be much tougher than a party mostly of thieves and magic-users.

* Non magical healing: Allow injured PCs to recover 1-6 hit points simply by resting after each combat.

* Inheritance: In OD&D, at least, the player is entitled to inherit goods for his next PC if his current PC should die (subject to their being recovered, of course). The result should be that the player should have the benefit of better/more starting gear for each successive PC.

* If lack of progress to higher PC levels is the real problem, the DM could rule that XP is awarded to the player rather than the character, so that they player retains his XP total, or half of it perhaps, even if he has to start a new PC.


Just a few thoughts... best of luck

Wow a wealth of ideas. I've tuned my players on to this thread since their are so many good ideas. Most of what i've mentioned they have already encountered, so hopefully no spoilers for them.

Next session if the players return to town and start buying chickens though, i'm blaming you.

Right now the party consists of 4 halflings and a thief. Surprisingly the haflings and thief have lived for about 4 sessions now. The death toll is usually on the henchmen and the players secondary characters. The halfling arrow barrage has proved pretty effective.

I think one of the bigger issues has been with my dungeon generation not providing enough treasure when compared with encounters, and this has prevented them from getting to level 2.

Thanks for all the great insight waysoftheearth!

[makofan]

One idea for healing is allow them to drink an ale and get 1-3 hit points back. Then have them roll a d6. If the number they roll is UNDER the number of drinks consumed this session, they are drunk and a) can not get any more healing this way this day and 2) have -2 on all dice rolls until they sober up!

[waysoftheearth]

Aug 8, 2012 10:21:55 GMT -6 naleax said:

if the players return to town and start buying chickens though, i'm blaming you.

In one game that I recall, my brother insisted on having custom-made leather armour jackets for his chickens

edit: oops, grammar.

[Zenopus]

Give your players more money, and then have a spell-caster in town selling potions of healing for 100 gp (or whatever price you decide).

[waysoftheearth]

If you are not already using it, consider introducing the "Shields shall be splintered" house rule. This allows players with shields to "cancel" a hit by sacrificing their shield -- almost certainly extending the survivorship of fighters by at least one hit, and possibly more (given a shield bearer lugging a few spares around).

[naleax]

Aug 8, 2012 21:00:20 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Give your players more money, and then have a spell-caster in town selling potions of healing for 100 gp (or whatever price you decide).

Good idea. The party has 3 potions of healing which they have yet to use. I decided early on that potion creation is a lost art known only by a few. (The party have heard rumors of a hag that brews potions and lives in the southern swamp, but other rumors about her have kept them from paying her a visit.)

Without giving to much away because my players may be reading this thread. Lets just say that recipes for making said potions can be found in the dungeon thereby granting the players the ability to brew potions on their own. Of course they have to collect the ingredients. So, until they find these recipes and are able to brew their own potions. There alternatives are to find some of the old stores left in the dungeon which i've placed quite a few.

[naleax]

Aug 8, 2012 21:32:02 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

If you are not already using it, consider introducing the "Shields shall be splintered" house rule. This allows players with shields to "cancel" a hit by sacrificing their shield -- almost certainly extending the survivorship of fighters by at least one hit, and possibly more (given a shield bearer lugging a few spares around).

Aye, this is a great house rule, and we did institute this rule at the same time we instituted adding the 2nd level hd rule. But no one has used it yet. I'll have to remind them about it.

[naleax]

Aug 8, 2012 14:48:05 GMT -6 makofan said:

One idea for healing is allow them to drink an ale and get 1-3 hit points back. Then have them roll a d6. If the number they roll is UNDER the number of drinks consumed this session, they are drunk and a) can not get any more healing this way this day and 2) have -2 on all dice rolls until they sober up!

I think this is a great rule, and we've used it in a C&C Conan game that a friend runs from time to time. But it might hinder them more than help with the possibility of getting drunk. I might add to your rule and say that the first drink gives 1-3 hit points back, but the second drink causes the roll for drunkeness.

Thanks Makofan.

[naleax]

Aug 7, 2012 20:12:39 GMT -6 paulg said:

1. Use the monster reactions table. If you get an "uncertain" result, prompt the players by having the monsters ask "what's in it for me?" or "how much is it worth to you?" or "maybe I give you X if you distract/kill/prank this other dungeon faction".

2. Use morale rules. Some monsters will run away. Others might surrender to the PC's, which is always fun.

3. They should learn to run away. Seriously. As a player, depending on the referee and the dungeon, I might flee from half the encounters, especially (treasureless) wandering monsters. Review the flight and evasion rules with your players before the start of the next session.

Your rate of character death and lack of advancement after 7 sessions is not far outside the norm, especially if one or two of them are close to leveling. If they've just been unlucky finding the big scores, and the players are discouraged, try dropping a treasure map in their laps. This should of course be guarded by appropriate challenges.

I agree, I don't think the death rate is that much outside the norm from what i remember in my youth about B/X D&D. In fact i'm pretty sure the thief is already level 2, the player just hasn't tracked exp well and 1200 exp is easy to get. The 4 halflings are on the cusp, or 3 quarters of the way to 2nd.

And, thanks for the advice Paul.

[kenmeister]

Aug 7, 2012 11:33:55 GMT -6 naleax said:

They don't have any spell casters i.e. clerics or magic users, which I see as a serious problem. Although, they did. Unfortunately the spell casters died early on and no one rolled new ones.

To me, that's a serious problem. Clerics to turn the undead, and magic-users to sleep and charm humanoid foes.

Elves have more survivability than magic-users, so maybe they'd like to go that route.

Consider allowing the OD&D bard class. At 1st level they can't do much, but at 1000 xp they get to level 2, and from there on out they can act as thieves and magic-users of half their level, in addition to bardic charming and suggestion abilities.