[AS&SH] Volume I: Swordsmen & Sorcerers

[Ghul]

Hello fellows,

I'd like to begin a series of threads in which I present to you, my fine gaming peers, some of the features of my forthcoming role-playing game, Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea. The game will be presented in a full color box that contains B&W booklets a few inches larger than "digest" size. The box will also contain dice, a large map of the campaign world, and character sheets.

The topic for this thread is Volume I, which is developed and entering the early stages of editing. Bear in mind that the editing process may effect changes to what I present below.

ASTONISHING SWORDSMEN & SORCERERS OF HYPERBOREA
©2011 North Wind Adventures LLC

Text: Jeff Talanian
Illustrations: Ian Baggley

Volume I: Swordsmen & Sorcerers

• Introduction (brief introduction to game)
  
  
• Dice Conventions (how to use dice)
  
  
• Character Creation (steps to creating a character)
  
  
• Attributes (strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom, charisma; modifiers are presented on shallow curve: str 13-14 = +0/+1, str 15-16 = +1/+1, str 17 = +1/+2, str 18 = +2/+3)
  
  
• Race (Races of mankind, including Common, Amazon, Atlantean, Esquimaux, Hyperborean, Ixian, Kelt, Kimmerian, Kimmeri-Kelt, Pict, Pict Half-Blood, Viking)
  
  
• Physique (height, weight, age determination, etc.)
  
  
• Class (4 principal classes presented in 12 levels of advancement; by 9th level most characters are eligible to establish a castle, stronghold, hideout, etc.)
  Fighter: a swordsman, bowman, or other warrior type.
  Magician: a sorcerer who memorizes arcane formulae and casts spells.
  Cleric: an armed and armoured mystic sorcerer.
  Thief: a nimble swordsman possessed of numerous specialty skills.
  
  
• Subclass (18 subclasses)
  Barbarian: an outland warrior possessed of feral instincts.
  Berserker: a rampaging shock trooper renowned for unbridled battle rage.
  Cataphract: a mail clad horseman and warrior elite.
  Paladin: a champion who crusades for justice and Law.
  Ranger: a borderland fighter, frontiersman, and wilderness warrior.
  Warlock: a spell weaving fighter who wields steel and sorcery interchangeably.
  Illusionist: a sorcerer who evokes phantasms and manipulates shadows and light.
  Necromancer: a sorcerer who practices black magic and communicates with the dead.
  Pyromancer: a sorcerer who manipulates the elemental power of fire.
  Witch: a sorceress who brews potions, divines portents, and lays curses.
  Druid: a mystic sorcerer empowered by ancestral, elemental, and animistic spirits.
  Monk: a warrior-priest who strives for physical and mental mastery.
  Priest: a chaplain mystic of prodigious spell casting capacity.
  Shaman: a primal sorcerer who confers with ancestral and totem spirits.
  Assassin: a thief who specializes in murder and intrigue.
  Bard: a warrior, scholar, and weaver of enchanted lyrics and/or music.
  Legerdemainist: an adept thief who also commands the power of sorcery.
  Scout: a lightly armed explorer, intelligence gatherer, and stealth master.
  
  
• Alignment (ethos and principals as governed by Law/Civilization versus Chaos/Barbarism; alignments include Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, and Neutrality)
  
  
• Other Statistics (armour class, fighting ability, hit dice, hit points, movement, saving throw)
  
  
• Background (secondary skills, languages)
  
  
• Weapon Skills (each character class/subclass begins play with a broad group of weapons with which they are familiar; fighters, for example can use all weapons without penalty, whilst magicians begin with proficiency in a small handful of weapons. Characters with a limited list gain new "off-list" weapon skills every 4 levels, so your magician can indeed learn to fight with a sword.)
  Weapon Mastery: Fighters may select two and fighter subclasses may select one weapon with which they have mastered. This confers a +1/+1 bonus. Mastery also confers increased attack rates. New masteries are achieved every 4 levels.
  
  
• Money (gold, electrum, silver, copper; exchange rates; starting gold)
  
  
• Equipment (armour, shields, melee weapons, missile weapons, general equipment, provisions, religious items, clothing, livestock, tack and harness, vehicles, services)
  

I could go into more detail on any of these items if anyone has any questions. Next up is Volume II: Sorcery.

[geoffrey]

How does starting gold relate to equipment prices? For example, most starting 1st-level fighters in OD&D can afford plate mail, but this is impossible in AD&D.

[Ghul]

Nov 16, 2011 10:11:06 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

How does starting gold relate to equipment prices? For example, most starting 1st-level fighters in OD&D can afford plate mail, but this is impossible in AD&D.

Hello Geoffrey,

Impossible here as well! But there is a subtle nuance worth noting. Starting gold is 3d6x10, so a heavy armour type is not going to be affordable for any L1 character. However, starting with scale mail (AC 6; 50 gp) damage reduction 1 is a significant factor, eliminating a point of damage from any and all melee and missile blows. Plate mail costs 350 gp, provides AC 3 and DR 2. In effect, plate mail in AS&SH is more potent than its 0e and 1e equivalents, and the steep cost reflects this.

Cheers,
Jeff T.

[kent]

Subclass:
Is it necessary for a player adopt a subclass or may he merely belong to a class?

Race:
Do the advantages accruing to a hero of the Keltic race include ... ?

• Increased intelligence as a consequence of drinking massive quantities of wine.
  
• Elevated cruel wit as a consequence of drinking massive quantities of ale.
  
• Mournful poetic insight from licking at the whiskey.
  
• Insensate bravery coupled with sophisticated brawling fandango when soused to blindness.
  

[Ghul]

Nov 16, 2011 17:56:03 GMT -6 kent said:

Subclass:
Is it necessary for a player adopt a subclass or may he merely belong to a class?

Absolutely not! One may play one of the four principal classes; in fact, this is the recommended mode of play for new players and veteran players who do not feel the need to deal with all the options.

Race:
Do the advantages accruing to a hero of the Keltic race include ... ?

• Increased intelligence as a consequence of drinking massive quantities of wine.
  
• Elevated cruel wit as a consequence of drinking massive quantities of ale.
  
• Mournful poetic insight from licking at the whiskey.
  
• Insensate bravery coupled with sophisticated brawling fandango when soused to blindness.
  

Yes.

;D

[kent]

Nov 16, 2011 20:27:59 GMT -6 Ghul said:

One may play one of the four principal classes; in fact, this is the recommended mode of play for new players and veteran players who do not feel the need to deal with all the options.

So far so good. This is how I ended up playing AD&D. Classic classes distinct from my own subclasses and recommended to beginners.

As you describe your game do mention your literary influences too where they seem relevant. Such and such a short story and so on. We all have the Howard, Leiber and ca Smith books.

[Finarvyn]

Looking at the original post, I notice that the alignment system looks most similar to Holmes.

If you had to compare AS&SoH to an existing version of D&D (OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, etc) which one would be the most similar overall? Or is it more a blend of lots of versions? Or is it simply its own thing?

[Ghul]

kent: I will keep that in mind. Immediately I can cite my recent articles in Fight On! magazine (#9 and #12, specifically) which featured beasts inspired by the Vance story, The Last Castle. In Fight On! #9 I have a piece on a humanoid race known as the bird-men, cantankerous and cowardly beings, albeit servile to men. Then in #12 a I have a piece on the "thew wagon," massive, cube-shaped, herbivorous beasts with sharp quills that are tamed by swampmen.

I think most of my literary influences become more obvious in the monster booklet and the gazetteer. I will endeavor to point some of these out as we move forward. Thanks for your interest!

[Ghul]

Nov 17, 2011 5:29:09 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Looking at the original post, I notice that the alignment system looks most similar to Holmes.

If you had to compare AS&SoH to an existing version of D&D (OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, etc) which one would be the most similar overall? Or is it more a blend of lots of versions? Or is it simply its own thing?

I would assess it as a blend of 0e, Holmes, 1e, and some of its own thing.

When I consider the following, I am more reminded of 0e, though without any specific desire to "clone" a process:

• Attribute bonus presented on a shallow curve (more than 0e, less than supplemental 0e, 1e, Moldvay, etc.)
  
• 12 levels of advancement.
  
• 5 point alignment system
  
• Unarmoured AC = 9; complete range from 9 to -9.
  
• 6 spell levels
  
• A simple d6 or d12 roll to resolve many non-combat related actions in which there stands a chance of failure.
  

But then I am reminded more of 1e when I consider the 18 subclasses presented, damage reduction for medium and heavy armour types, the way monsters are presented, some of the combat options, the way the lands are described in the gazetteer, and so forth.

While naval combat is influenced by both 1e and 0e, the mass warfare rules are inspired by BECMI.

Essentially, I am a student of the hobby's roots as presented in '74 till about the mid-80s. I have read and re-read the various iterations of the world's most popular game countless times, so while developing the AS&SH system, I've studied the presentations and resolution methods of those earlier editions that I adore. Still, it is difficult for me to pinpoint a specific rules set that has served as my primary influence. It is safe to say it is a mix of things, often because I have endeavored to see all aspects of this game through a more focused S&S lens.

But also I would also say that I am unapologetically inspired by Gary Gygax's vision, and I consider him the ultimate paragon of game authoring greatness: from original rules, to advanced rules, to setting (boxed or folio, take your pick).

Cheers,
Jeff T.

[Ghul]

Nov 17, 2011 5:29:09 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Looking at the original post, I notice that the alignment system looks most similar to Holmes.

If you had to compare AS&SoH to an existing version of D&D (OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, etc) which one would be the most similar overall? Or is it more a blend of lots of versions? Or is it simply its own thing?

Something else that came to mind, Marv:

AS&SH uses a 10 minute turn and a 10 second combat round. Group initiative using a d6, ties resolved in order of dexterity. Every monster is provided a "typical" dex score in order to help the referee resolve ties; alternatively, the referee can dice for monster dex scores on the spot. Optionally, initiative ties may be considered simultaneous action. This method has proved quite fun in play, and there is a certain Holmes vibe when initiative ties occur.

[Finarvyn]

Another question that comes to mind is regarding sub-classes. Are these tied to the setting or are they designed to be somewhat generic. (For example, in DragonLance they have those Solomic Knights which seem very much tied to the setting.)

I don't know a lot about Hyperborea and as such am not sure what sub-classes would be "expected" in the world.

[Ghul]

Nov 24, 2011 19:29:15 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Another question that comes to mind is regarding sub-classes. Are these tied to the setting or are they designed to be somewhat generic. (For example, in DragonLance they have those Solomic Knights which seem very much tied to the setting.)

I don't know a lot about Hyperborea and as such am not sure what sub-classes would be "expected" in the world.

I would say "somewhat," which would allow one to use the sub-classes with another setting, published or home brewed. Still, there were design choices that clearly pertained to setting. For example, the cataphract is an armoured horseman that fits the Kimmerian (Cimmerian) example; the idea "cavalier chivalry" is not relevant. With the necromancer there is the insinuation that many received their training at the fabled Isle of IX, island of the necromancers. Druids, for example, primarily follow the Yoon'Deh the elk goddess, and also Cernunnos (the “Horned One”). Rangers, for example, do not have "humanoids" as species enemies, but rather some of the otherworldly alien races that threaten mankind. So, there are many subtle connexions to the Hyperborea setting. Thanks for the interest!

--Jeff T.

[kent]

What kind of map will be included? Is it anything like the Wilderlands maps, the Greyhawk map, or the standard coloured textured terrain maps? Is it coarsely or finely detailed?

What fraction of the material is campaign material? Can you compare it in *form* and *style* to any previously published campaign?

What price are you aiming for and when will the box be released?

[Ghul]

Nov 25, 2011 17:42:05 GMT -6 kent said:

What kind of map will be included? Is it anything like the Wilderlands maps, the Greyhawk map, or the standard coloured textured terrain maps? Is it coarsely or finely detailed?

What fraction of the material is campaign material? Can you compare it in *form* and *style* to any previously published campaign?

I would compare it to the Known World style employed by David LaForce. It has been rendered by Andreas "Sir Clarence" Claren. Here is a cutout:

What price are you aiming for and when will the box be released?

Between $40 and $50. The final price will be determined by the results of our soon to begin Kickstarter fund raiser. The more capital we raise, the more boxes and poster maps we can initially print. The more boxes and poster maps we can initially print, the less they cost us per unit, due to pricing plateaus. So I'm not quite ready to announce an exact price, but I will say this: I will not sacrifice quality or box integrity in order to offer a cheaper priced product.

[Ynas Midgard]

How different are these sub-classes regarding activities often governed by rulings not rules, such as wilderness survival, climbing, picking pockets, disarming traps, and so on? Are there any activities which can only be attempted by a specific character?

The other thing is, how big is the difference between Hit Points of a Fighter and a Magician? What is the damage that typical weapons deal (without modifiers from Strength and other sources)?

[Ghul]

Dec 13, 2011 15:50:12 GMT -6 Ynas Midgard said:

How different are these sub-classes regarding activities often governed by rulings not rules, such as wilderness survival, climbing, picking pockets, disarming traps, and so on? Are there any activities which can only be attempted by a specific character?

Hello ynasmidgard,

You strike to the very heart of a matter that has always bothered me: skills of one class implying the exclusion of other classes even attempting an action! I think back to a time in the very early 90's when I was playing in someone's 2e game, and I wanted my character to build a fire. He asked me if my character had the fire building non-weapon proficiency, to which I replied, "No." He informed me that my character could not build a fire. I am of the opinion that this sort of ruling is terrible.

In the AS&SH game, specifically in Vol. III, which covers many of the rules, I have presented means by which anyone can attempt any action. This means, yes, even a non-thief can attempt to pick someone's pocket.

Things like climbing can be effected by anyone, and there are guidelines in place to help the referee handle this; of course, the thief and certain subclasses are able to climb with nigh preternatural capacity, but for everyone else, there are simple guidelines to follow.

In the case of the non-thief pick pocket, I have a section that guides the referee on non-standard task resolution; essentially, attempting some sort of test that is outside of the character's normal skill set.

Again, I believe anyone should be able to try anything that is reasonable. Reasonable being the operative word, here. If a thief tried to lay hands like a paladin, I would say, "Nice try. But in fact your dirt and bacteria stained hands just introduced an infection into your comrade's wounds." Just kidding. Well, not really. I tend to say things like that to my players.

The other thing is, how big is the difference between Hit Points of a Fighter and a Magician? What is the damage that typical weapons deal (without modifiers from Strength and other sources)?

Fighter = d10 HD; Magician = d4 HD; Cleric = d8 HD, Thief = d6 HD. It is true, I am not exactly re-inventing the wheel, here, as I feel this tried and true method is excellent.

Typical weapons inflict between 1d4 to as high as 1d12 in damage.

An important distinction between AS&SH and the earlier game systems that inspire it is this: daily healing is much better in this RPG. If you get a good night's rest, obtain proper nourishment, and bind your wounds accordingly, you get to roll your HD type after the rest period (once per day), so a fighter 14 hp 2nd level fighter who has been reduced to 3 hp after a day adventuring gets to roll a d10 healing after a good night's rest. This serves a few purposes. Firstly, it reduces the need for clerics to memorize just healing spells; in fact, it means a cleric is not absolutely needed. Second, it removes the need to spend a week recovering after two encounters in a dungeon.

Thank for inquiring!

Cheers,
Jeff T.

[Ynas Midgard]

Thank you for your detailed answer!

How a game system approaches skills (or adventuring activities, whatever they are called) is indeed a crucial point for me, too. They are often a means of differentiating characters, which is a good idea; however, their interpretation is rarely satisfying.

As for HP and damage, increased healing is a rather good idea as it is not only practical but also supports the idea of HP as an abstract measure of one's fighting capabilities.

I am looking forward this game very much

[Ghul]

Thank you, ynasmidgard! Your enthusiasm is noted and appreciated!

[geoffrey]

Dec 14, 2011 10:18:34 GMT -6 Ghul said:

I believe anyone should be able to try anything that is reasonable...

An important distinction between AS&SH and the earlier game systems that inspire it is this: daily healing is much better in this RPG. If you get a good night's rest, obtain proper nourishment, and bind your wounds accordingly, you get to roll your HD type after the rest period (once per day), so a fighter 14 hp 2nd level fighter who has been reduced to 3 hp after a day adventuring gets to roll a d10 healing after a good night's rest. This serves a few purposes. Firstly, it reduces the need for clerics to memorize just healing spells; in fact, it means a cleric is not absolutely needed. Second, it removes the need to spend a week recovering after two encounters in a dungeon.

1. I revise that slightly to: "I believe anyone should be able to try anything that is non-magical." Only magic-users can cast magic spells, only clerics can cast cleric spells, only clerics can turn undead, etc. But if it's something that can occur in the real world, I give the PC a chance to do it.

2. I really like that healing system!

[Ghul]

Dec 15, 2011 22:04:03 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

1. I revise that slightly to: "I believe anyone should be able to try anything that is non-magical." Only magic-users can cast magic spells, only clerics can cast cleric spells, only clerics can turn undead, etc. But if it's something that can occur in the real world, I give the PC a chance to do it.

Probably a good practice, Geoff, but even then I would never say never. I think of the Grey Mouser and how he learned a bit of magic from that hedge magician. That's just one example. There are a lot of instances in sword and sorcery fiction where a "normal" hero learns a forbidden incantation and casts a spell. In the proper circumstances, I might allow such a thing to occur, but as a general rule I agree with your assessment.

2. I really like that healing system!

My players do, too. I can assure that not a one of them on the other side of the screen complained when it went from 1 hp of healing to HD type.

Say you have a group of 3rd level characters. Let's look at just the magician (8 hp) and the fighter (24 hp). The magician has sustained 4 hp of damage after a day of adventuring, and the fighter has sustained 12 hp of damage. Each, as is obvious, has been reduced to 50% of their max. After eating rations and resting the night, they each get back 1 hp. This implies that the magician has recovered from 12.5% of his wounds, while the fighter has recovered from just over 4% of his wounds.

If hit points are an abstraction intended to convey a combination of health, ability, durability, resilience, luck, divine favor, and so forth, and fighters are intended to be the most gifted in this department, I feel that their recovery rate should also be superior to their adventuring counterparts. All that being said, here is where I throw "logic" out the window: I love dice, I love randomness, so there is always the chance a fighter rolls a 3 on his d10 and a magician rolls a 4 on his d4. As an aside, I also allow fighters (and fighter subclasses) to re-roll 1 results.

You know, I am a huge REH fan, and so many times in his fiction, the hero is bloody and beaten; come the next morning, he stretches, shakes off his soreness, eats, drinks, and is as ready as he's ever been.

[Deleted]

Do Thieves (& Thief sub-classes) use percentile dice for their skill checks or is it an extension of the d6 or d12 to resolve non-combat checks?

[Ghul]

Jan 3, 2012 18:16:50 GMT -6 @sunsword said:

Do Thieves (& Thief sub-classes) use percentile dice for their skill checks or is it an extension of the d6 or d12 to resolve non-combat checks?

Thieves (and their subclasses) use a d12 to resolve their skill checks. Thanks for asking!

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2012 11:55:47 GMT -6 Ghul said:

Jan 3, 2012 18:16:50 GMT -6 @sunsword said:

Do Thieves (& Thief sub-classes) use percentile dice for their skill checks or is it an extension of the d6 or d12 to resolve non-combat checks?

Thieves (and their subclasses) use a d12 to resolve their skill checks. Thanks for asking!

Sweet! You just sold another one <G>

[kesher]

I'll add to the praise of the healing system: Totally captures the genre. Plus, I never looked at the arbitrary math of everyone healing one pt. a day.

Your system is, of course, broadly applicable for any milieu that wants to ditch clerics, which is just a bonus!

[Ynas Midgard]

Portable subsystems are indeed welcome (long live D&D and the OSR!), but the most interesting part ought to be the setting. There are so many well-written systems; yet, well-supported settings number few (only Fomalhaut and Land of NOD come to mind).

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2012 11:55:47 GMT -6 Ghul said:

Jan 3, 2012 18:16:50 GMT -6 @sunsword said:

Do Thieves (& Thief sub-classes) use percentile dice for their skill checks or is it an extension of the d6 or d12 to resolve non-combat checks?

Thieves (and their subclasses) use a d12 to resolve their skill checks. Thanks for asking!

So I've pledged

If your willing are the D6 & D12 checks roll over a TN or under a TN or something else?

Thanks again!

[Ghul]

Jan 4, 2012 19:43:37 GMT -6 @sunsword said:

Jan 4, 2012 11:55:47 GMT -6 Ghul said:

Thieves (and their subclasses) use a d12 to resolve their skill checks. Thanks for asking!

So I've pledged

If your willing are the D6 & D12 checks roll over a TN or under a TN or something else?

Thanks again!

That's very generous of you, and much appreciated.

Regarding the d6 and d12 checks, the standard method of handling this is to say, for example, a 3-in-12 chance of success, which implies a 1, 2, or 3 is success. So, low is good.

Cheers,
Jeff T.

[Ghul]

Jan 4, 2012 16:21:42 GMT -6 kesher said:

I'll add to the praise of the healing system: Totally captures the genre. Plus, I never looked at the arbitrary math of everyone healing one pt. a day.

Your system is, of course, broadly applicable for any milieu that wants to ditch clerics, which is just a bonus!

I agree. I'm not really in the "ditch clerics" camp, but I would rather see them viewed as sorcerers rather than simple healers.

[mgtremaine]

Hear!Hear! I fully agree with the Cleric -> Sorcerer paradigm shift. It's something that I've done slowly over time in my games also. I love the feel of more cultish, less centralized religious system. I think it adds more flavor, more opportunity for role-playing, and far more wacky and weird fun.

Looking forward to the ruleset...

-Mike

[Ghul]

Dec 13, 2011 15:50:12 GMT -6 Ynas Midgard said:

How different are these sub-classes regarding activities often governed by rulings not rules, such as wilderness survival, climbing, picking pockets, disarming traps, and so on? Are there any activities which can only be attempted by a specific character?

The other thing is, how big is the difference between Hit Points of a Fighter and a Magician? What is the damage that typical weapons deal (without modifiers from Strength and other sources)?

We have a concept built in that basically covers the idea that anyone can try anything. Any man can attempt to disarm a trap, pick pockets, climb, and so forth, and guidelines are presented to cover this by use of a d6 roll, or in some cases an attribute check.

There are, however, some notable distinctions; while anyone can attempt to climb or hide, a thief can attempt such actions with nigh preternatural capacity. Of course there are some subclass abilities that other classes can not attempt at all, because they are "supernatural" effects. For example, the bard's mesmerize ability cannot be attempted by another class, and neither can a berserker's berserk rage; however, there is an advanced combat action for "fighting recklessly" that is somewhat like going berserk.

You mentioned wilderness survival. The ranger and barbarian can hunt, fish, build shelters, woodcraft and so forth without any need of a check. Other classes, depending on their background and as best adjudicated by the referee, might attempt any of these things with a d6 check, if deemed necessary.

Weapon damages are more similar to 1e. There is 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d6, 3d4, but nothing with a base damage that exceeds 12.

Fighters have a d10 HD type, and magicians have a d4 HD type.

Cheers,
Jeff T.