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Post by captainjapan on May 20, 2022 13:47:46 GMT -6
I see that D&D's 50th is approaching and I was wondering if Hasbro/WotC might release any product to mark the occasion. Any speculation/ opinions on the subject? Or, is it basically just up to us to celebrate in our own way? Has Luke Gygax announced any plans?
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Post by Desparil on May 20, 2022 17:27:43 GMT -6
It's still more than a year and a half away. I would assume that if Luke Gygax is planning something, it would probably be announced at next year's GaryCon - and a similar timeframe for anything Wizards is planning, though they might choose a bigger convention such as PAX Unplugged this December.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 18:21:33 GMT -6
Wizards made some kind of off-hand comment a while back about bringing back some classic settings over the next few years. While I personally assume Planescape and Spelljammer are what they have in mind, it's possible it could be Greyhawk and Blackmoor. I expect there'll be at least one adventure book set in one or both for the anniversary. (Technically already had the Saltmarsh adventure a few years ago.)
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Post by tdenmark on May 20, 2022 21:02:41 GMT -6
Single-Volume editions of each edition would be incredible. Well edited with as many of the original illustrations as possible.
Basically a Rules Cyclopedia of each:
Original D&D (this would be kind of like a super Holmes-bluebook)
BECMI D&D (updated and corrected and better layout of the Rules Cyclopedia)
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
All in a gorgeous slip case with other goodies.
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phantomtim
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Post by phantomtim on May 20, 2022 23:41:53 GMT -6
WotC is going to release the "next iteration" of D&D for the 50th anniversary. Whether this is called D&D 6th Edition, 5.5 Edition, Revised 5th Edition, or something else, we don't know. They also announced that three classic settings would be released for 5th Edition between 2022 and the 50th anniversary. Spelljammer and Dragonlance were already announced this year. We don't know what the third setting is, yet.
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Post by tombowings on May 21, 2022 0:04:15 GMT -6
Whatever is it, WotC never misses an opportunity to promote their product lines.
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Post by tdenmark on May 21, 2022 4:53:23 GMT -6
WotC is going to release the "next iteration" of D&D for the 50th anniversary. Yep. A new edition is the most likely release. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 5:18:43 GMT -6
And then the 5e kids will experience what some of us have felt many times - betrayal. Then they'll become Grognards and the cycle shall repeat. Bwahahaha! BWAHAHAHA!
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Post by Finarvyn on May 21, 2022 6:34:50 GMT -6
Whatever is it, WotC never misses an opportunity to promote their product lines. Actually, I feel like they do. Hasbro/WotC seems to have very little interest in their own history. In this case I've also heard that there will be a revision of 5E to coincide with the 50th anniversary, but otherwise they have been great at not allowing folks access to older editions until recently. So, this new edition sounds like it will be compatible with 5E, so maybe call it 5.5E or something like that. I would anticipate that they are bringing in "modern" ideas such that players can pick a +2 and +1 to stats regardless of race choice. Part of me dislikes the whole "not all orcs or drow are evil" mentality because I like the stereotypical good versus evil vibe in the older editions, but rules like this do simplify character creation a little. I think they are going to bring some of the options from Sword Coast and other books into the Player's Handbook, so the PH may be a lot thicker but have more choice. As I own all of the separate books I don't get much advantage by this, but my players would since I tend to run "PH plus one" campaigns. What I would love to see is a return of a "Basic" D&D, where they could have a Player's Handbook that contains only information needed for levels 1-10 or something like that. It would be a lot thinner and I would like it a lot more, as my campaigns never reach level 10 anyway. (And then they could sell "Advanced" for levels 11-20, which I would never use but probably buy anyway because I'm a completist. In the 3E days I bought the "Epic" book for levels 21-30 and never used it, either.) |
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Post by Desparil on May 21, 2022 16:32:14 GMT -6
Whatever is it, WotC never misses an opportunity to promote their product lines. What I would love to see is a return of a "Basic" D&D, where they could have a Player's Handbook that contains only information needed for levels 1-10 or something like that. It would be a lot thinner and I would like it a lot more, as my campaigns never reach level 10 anyway. (And then they could sell "Advanced" for levels 11-20, which I would never use but probably buy anyway because I'm a completist. In the 3E days I bought the "Epic" book for levels 21-30 and never used it, either.) They already did that with the 5E Essentials Kit, covering 1st to 6th level. Whether they do it again probably depends on how well that sold compared to prior Starter Set version with pre-generated characters only. |
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Post by Finarvyn on May 21, 2022 16:59:34 GMT -6
What I would love to see is a return of a "Basic" D&D, where they could have a Player's Handbook that contains only information needed for levels 1-10 or something like that. It would be a lot thinner and I would like it a lot more, as my campaigns never reach level 10 anyway. (And then they could sell "Advanced" for levels 11-20, which I would never use but probably buy anyway because I'm a completist. In the 3E days I bought the "Epic" book for levels 21-30 and never used it, either.) They already did that with the 5E Essentials Kit, covering 1st to 6th level. Whether they do it again probably depends on how well that sold compared to prior Starter Set version with pre-generated characters only. Sort of, but I'm thinking of a complete hardback PH for levels 1-10, not a thin pamphlet thing. And I think that the 5E Essentials Kit is a lot better overall than the older Starter Set. The Phandelver stuff in the Starter Set is neat, but the rulebook from the Essentials set is awesome. |
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Post by Desparil on May 21, 2022 19:00:23 GMT -6
They already did that with the 5E Essentials Kit, covering 1st to 6th level. Whether they do it again probably depends on how well that sold compared to prior Starter Set version with pre-generated characters only. Sort of, but I'm thinking of a complete hardback PH for levels 1-10, not a thin pamphlet thing. And I think that the 5E Essentials Kit is a lot better overall than the older Starter Set. The Phandelver stuff in the Starter Set is neat, but the rulebook from the Essentials set is awesome. Ah, I see. Unfortunately, I think odds are slim to none of them printing such a thing as long as they're still giving away the Basic Rules online as a free pdf and selling some sort of Starter/Essentials/Basic set. A limited-rules hardcover would be too much of their different products competing with each other, I think. |
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Post by jamesmishler on May 21, 2022 22:10:00 GMT -6
What I would love to see is a return of a "Basic" D&D, where they could have a Player's Handbook that contains only information needed for levels 1-10 or something like that. It would be a lot thinner and I would like it a lot more, as my campaigns never reach level 10 anyway. (And then they could sell "Advanced" for levels 11-20, which I would never use but probably buy anyway because I'm a completist. In the 3E days I bought the "Epic" book for levels 21-30 and never used it, either.) They have already done this in free PDF format; you don't really need to buy anything to play a "Basic" version of D&D 5E (well, dice): "The Basic Rules runs from levels 1 to 20 and covers the cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard, presenting what we view as the essential subclass for each. It also provides the dwarf, elf, halfling, and human as race options; in addition, the rules contain 120 spells, 5 backgrounds, and character sheets. But the best part? The Basic Rules is a free PDF. Anyone can download it from our website. We want to put D&D in as many hands as possible, and a free, digital file is the best way to do that." dnd.wizards.com/what-is-dnd/basic-rules |
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Post by Finarvyn on May 22, 2022 5:15:16 GMT -6
I'm aware of the free rules, but I was thinking of the full 12 classes, which is in neither the free download or any of the boxed sets. Again, I'd like to see a "real Player's Handbook" but only with material that would fit levels 1-10. Heck, they could then sell an "Advanced D&D" PH with levels 11-20 and maybe an "Epic D&D" with levels 21-30.
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Post by jeffb on May 22, 2022 12:46:42 GMT -6
So is this is a "What we would like to see from WOTC for the 50th anni" thread ?
or a
"What we are likely to see from WOTC for the 50th anni" thread?
Those are two very different topics.
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Post by DungeonDevil on May 22, 2022 15:19:58 GMT -6
Wi$bros have a limitless capacity to disappoint us. I'm not holding out any hope.
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Post by hamurai on May 24, 2022 22:42:50 GMT -6
I guess they'll do another collector's edition. Looking at the stuff other companies shell out, I'd expect some faux leather and actual leather books for the trinity (PHB, DMG, MM).
I'm also sort of expecting a 5.5E, with all the new "inclusive ideas" and other changes sewn in: no alignments (and thus no "pre-aligned" races/cultures, free-form character creation (assign +2/+1 attribute bonuses, instead of Background choose 2 skills and/or tool proficiencies, choose some class abilities on level-up...).
With all the class options out there, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd take the AD&D 2e road and release "The Complete...." books again, with most of the books just being reprints of the player rules, and the class-specific stuff on top. It would make sense to organize stuff like this, and it's a marketing opportunity. 12 classes makes 12 books, price them at 10-20 bucks (some will have to be smaller, spell-caster books larger) and switch on the cash drain.
Edit: typo
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Post by Starbeard on May 30, 2022 19:28:27 GMT -6
My private side bet is that the anniversary "new rules" will largely be a reorganization of the current 5e core books that cycle out a few of the least popular items and replace them with the most popular stuff from the splatbooks. That basically means the PHB will be the one mostly affected.
Unless they really screw up down the road, they've finally struck onto the MTG model they've been hoping for since 2000. They have a player base who, for better or worse, prefer to have a skeletal core game system that stays consistent into perpetuity as the official sacrosanct rules, with the bulk of the game itself taken up by player options that are cycled out in regular intervals to keep the game alive. Every few years they can cull the common options back into a new revised PHB and start the process over, without ever having to drastically change the core structure (and actually being expected not to touch the core structure).
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Post by tdenmark on May 31, 2022 11:35:17 GMT -6
My private side bet is that the anniversary "new rules" will largely be a reorganization of the current 5e core books that cycle out a few of the least popular items and replace them with the most popular stuff from the splatbooks. That basically means the PHB will be the one mostly affected. Unless they really screw up down the road, they've finally struck onto the MTG model they've been hoping for since 2000. They have a player base who, for better or worse, prefer to have a skeletal core game system that stays consistent into perpetuity as the official sacrosanct rules, with the bulk of the game itself taken up by player options that are cycled out in regular intervals to keep the game alive. Every few years they can cull the common options back into a new revised PHB and start the process over, without ever having to drastically change the core structure (and actually being expected not to touch the core structure). Am I the only one who likes this business model and thinks it is a good thing? This allows fans to create content into perpetuity, reinvigorates the game with new content without spoiling all the good design work that has been done over the various editions for 50 years. I'd hate to see a 6th edition that takes a radical new direction like 4th edition did. 5th edition has proven to be my favorite since B/X. |
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Post by Starbeard on May 31, 2022 13:04:19 GMT -6
As a design model it has a lot going for it. You see a lot of the same concepts being used in miniature wargames since about 15 years ago too, though I think they are pulling more directly from Warhammer. The common design now is to have a core game system that is very lightweight, something you could summarize entirely onto one, maybe two sides of paper. All of the details, in fact about 80% of the game, is taken up by special abilities and trigger words given to the unit in question. That way, the same core system can be used for multiple genres and time periods simply by coming up with new key words and exceptions. In the end I definitely see the merits, but I don't subscribe to it wholesale. More of a case by case thing. At the extreme, you have the scenario where you're playing a mech battle game and your unit with 7 keywords faces the opponent's unit with 6 keywords, but you have a second unit with 3 keywords you can apply to the round if you like, and suddenly it's a hairy mess just keeping it all straight, like this caricature of a MTG game. The way my brain works, I'd rather just learn a game designed specifically for the scenario. It takes about the same time to learn, and it's easier to remember. Now for OD&D, I love the idea of using that as a base for everything, if for no other reason than the aesthetic of it. Also in part I think that works because the player facing stuff, the character classes themselves, are so minimal as to be almost invisible, so you always have a lot of wiggle room. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 31, 2022 16:34:25 GMT -6
So is this is a "What we would like to see from WOTC for the 50th anni" thread ? or a "What we are likely to see from WOTC for the 50th anni" thread? Those are two very different topics. Sorry if I derailed the thread when I diverged from the original post by saying what I would like to see rather than what I expect to see. It will be a 5.5 edition that cleans up some stuff and pushes more into the xplf direction they've been going. (Less adventure, more sitting around talking about feelings). |
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Post by jeffb on May 31, 2022 19:12:23 GMT -6
So is this is a "What we would like to see from WOTC for the 50th anni" thread ? or a "What we are likely to see from WOTC for the 50th anni" thread? Those are two very different topics. Sorry if I derailed the thread when I diverged from the original post by saying what I would like to see rather than what I expect to see. It will be a 5.5 edition that cleans up some stuff and pushes more into the xplf direction they've been going. (Less adventure, more sitting around talking about feelings). No need to apologize- the speculation is always going to be way more fun and exciting than anything WOTC will actually come up with. |
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Post by tombowings on May 31, 2022 23:04:15 GMT -6
Am I the only one who likes this business model and thinks it is a good thing? This allows fans to create content into perpetuity, reinvigorates the game with new content without spoiling all the good design work that has been done over the various editions for 50 years. I'd hate to see a 6th edition that takes a radical new direction like 4th edition did. 5th edition has proven to be my favorite since B/X. I enjoy huge system changes. Who knows what players might find their more perfect system from the introduction of a 6th version of the game? The more options for DMs and players to choose from the better. And if WotC screws up the design work, oh well, we can always stick with the previous editions (as many did when 4e came out). No problem there. Personally, I loved 4e. I also love OD&D and AD&D. I'd love to see what new innovations the game can explore. |
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Post by tedopon on Jun 1, 2022 10:50:43 GMT -6
It will be a 5.5 edition that cleans up some stuff and pushes more into the xplf direction they've been going. (Less adventure, more sitting around talking about feelings). I'm no fan of 5e, but I'm not sure where people get this impression. In every 5e game I have played, it's 60%+ combat, then everything else is the remaining >40%. Most games I've played of 5e (a ton with many different people, because that's what most people want to play) are more like 75% combat, then the other quarter is everything else. Not a whole lot of "sitting around talking about feelings," when most of the game is combat. Across all these groups I have noticed many people getting visibly annoyed when I or someone else talks or walks our way out of or around a combat, annoyed when more than one person wants to solve a puzzle instead of torture a guard to get the answer, annoyed when there is any downtime that doesn't involve murderhoboing through a pile of bad guys. If anything, I feel like the opposite of "sitting around talking about feelings," is what happens at most 5e tables. It's just "kill the bad guys and take their stuff." There are two guys in one of the groups I play 5e with who literally cannot do anything other than look at the abilities on their sheet and hammer at whatever is in front of them with those crib notes rather than talk, improvise or let someone else take the lead for five minutes. These are both younger players who started in 3.x or later. People who want to play "sit around and talk about feelings" simulator are not playing D&D, they're playing something else. I have noticed this dumbing down of an already pretty shallow game across all demographics. Even people I have games with for decades have adopted this style. The problem with D&D isn't anything related to the mechanics of whatever is the current system, it's how rigidly codified and self referential the D&D experience has become. |
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Post by jeffb on Jun 1, 2022 12:20:32 GMT -6
Am I the only one who likes this business model and thinks it is a good thing? This allows fans to create content into perpetuity, reinvigorates the game with new content without spoiling all the good design work that has been done over the various editions for 50 years. I'd hate to see a 6th edition that takes a radical new direction like 4th edition did. 5th edition has proven to be my favorite since B/X. I enjoy huge system changes. Who knows what players might find their more perfect system from the introduction of a 6th version of the game? The more options for DMs and players to choose from the better. And if WotC screws up the design work, oh well, we can always stick with the previous editions (as many did when 4e came out). No problem there. Personally, I loved 4e. I also love OD&D and AD&D. I'd love to see what new innovations the game can explore. This is me. I don't want to keep buying the same game over and over. If the games are largely the same..1e/2e, 3.0/3.5, MCM/BECMI, I'm not interested. I don't want to buy the same car every 7-10 years with same name. I want major changes. Also a 4E fan. I"d like to see another brand new spin on D&D like it was. There are enough versions/clones/hearken back to's of the "classic" game. But the majority of D&D fans are nuts-They want to keep buying the SOS with a different coat of paint. They get mad when it's not changed, then when it changes, they hate the changes. Then they want buy all the same products over again with each new edition as well. "A 7th Manual of the Planes that rehashes 95% of the material from the 6 previous ones? take my money!" I've Zero use for WOTC, the D&D business model, or community they have fostered over the past 7-10 years. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jun 1, 2022 15:49:49 GMT -6
I'm not sure where people get this impression. In every 5e game I have played, it's 60%+ combat, It was a reference to WotC's recent book of adventures: Strixhaven. A sort of Hogwarts done D&D. Lots of sitting around and talking about feelings. Ok, I'm exaggerating a little, but Strixhaven isn't very exciting (to me). Most of the 5e content has been really well done. They've chosen a Quality over Quantity business model for this edition. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jun 1, 2022 15:54:00 GMT -6
Personally, I loved 4e. I also love OD&D and AD&D. I'd love to see what new innovations the game can explore. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate innovation and newness, but 4e went so far it didn't feel like D&D anymore. On the other hand I'd like to be able to play an old classic like Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan in the newest edition without TOO much difficulty converting it. |
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Post by jeffb on Jun 1, 2022 16:49:02 GMT -6
Personally, I loved 4e. I also love OD&D and AD&D. I'd love to see what new innovations the game can explore. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate innovation and newness, but 4e went so far it didn't feel like D&D anymore. On the other hand I'd like to be able to play an old classic like Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan in the newest edition without TOO much difficulty converting it. That was actually Tom's statement, but I'm with him (well, in theory I love AD&D- I love the idea of AD&D and many of it's materials, but not the intent behind it's design). The quoting on this forum can be "difficult" when trying to carve out a small bit of text and have it attached to the correct poster) FWIW- there actually was a HSOT for 4E  It was one of the freebies for being a member of the RPGA or whatever it was called during 4E's reign- I also got a 4E version of Village of Hommlett. That aside, I did not have much issue converting anything for 4E. Between Monster Manual (3) on a Business Card and Quickleaf's DM sheets, I often converted older materials on the fly or just improvised any sorts of stats (monsters, traps, impromptu damage, DCs etc) as needed. |
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Post by tombowings on Jun 2, 2022 23:29:49 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate innovation and newness, but 4e went so far it didn't feel like D&D anymore. For me, the Dungeons & Dragons name is just a marketing lable. A rose by any other name and all. A new edition doesn't need to feel like a previous one. I already have copies of the previous versions that I enjoy. More of the same doesn't add more creativity to the world. Besides, If I don't like the new one, I can always keep playing those. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jun 3, 2022 10:07:57 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate innovation and newness, but 4e went so far it didn't feel like D&D anymore. For me, the Dungeons & Dragons name is just a marketing lable. A rose by any other name and all. A new edition doesn't need to feel like a previous one. I already have copies of the previous versions that I enjoy. More of the same doesn't add more creativity to the world. Besides, If I don't like the new one, I can always keep playing those. I regularly attend conventions and also play locally, whatever is the current edition is what people generally play and the games you can find. As well as new high quality content being made for. Also it tends to be the edition that new gamers are being brought into the fold with. My own regular group tends to be eclectic. Dungeons & Dragons isn't just branding, it has a specific flavor to it that is special and unique. The 4e era was strange as Pathfinder started taking over but I never really got into it because it was unnecessarily fiddly and detailed for me. For an off-brand to be more D&D than the official brand was...weird. |
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It was one of the freebies for being a member of the RPGA or whatever it was called during 4E's reign- I also got a 4E version of Village of Hommlett.