Mechanics for oozes?

[delta]

I keep coming back to the ooze creatures in the LBBs -- the "cleanup crew" of black puddings, gray oozes, green slimes, and the like -- and get tangled up about exactly how they're meant to be run in combat.

Question (1): How does an attack by one of them get determined? Do they make normal attack rolls? Do they attack against full AC, or do we discount armor, since a strike that touches armor starts the offensive dissolving process?

Question (2): Does the ooze stick to a target once it hits? The black pudding text talks about someone running through it and then losing their armor. Is it the whole monster that sticks? Just a conditional effect, separate from the monster? Can the victim always run away, or does the ooze lock them in place?

(I may make a poll on this at a later date: now here.)

[derv]

No replies on this one?

I basically treat these types as attacks of opportunity, typically with surprise. They can for the most part be avoided otherwise. Though Black Puddings do have a reasonable movement rate. The problem really arises when they are blocking routes of travel that the party must take.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, normal attack rolls. I assume one turn at full armor and reduce AC after that depending on what has come in contact with the ooze or pudding (based on a hit). I do not assign damage until after the initial turn (except for Ochre Jelly) unless the monster has fallen from the ceiling and the PC has no head covering.

2. Only Green Slime sticks, the others attempt to envelope their prey thus maximizing contact. Once in contact I consider the PC in melee. So, if they want to withdrawal, I give the ooze or pudding a free attack like any other monster. In some cases weapons as well as armor will have corroded and become worthless in the process.

[cometaryorbit]

Green Slime is weird, almost a trap/monster hybrid.

I always assumed the others were just standard monsters, normal attack rolls, no sticking.

[Quantomoo2]

My way of handling oozes is pretty simple, but relies on my system for handling wear of items.

If an ooze hits with an attack, nothing happens. If the item is removed before the oozes next turn, it is only damaged. If not, the item is destroyed and the ooze sets about eating the person underneath. Next turn (if they havent gotten away) they get the full force of the damage.

If an item is used to hit an ooze or someone passes through an ooze, it wears out the item. Already worn items het destroyed. If there isnt an item in the way, I use 1/2 or 1/3 damage depending on how evil I feel.

[bobjester0e]

I treat green slime as a trap - with normal chances of noticing, but no way of disarming. However, disposal is adequately handled in the description.

For the other POGS (Puddings, Oozes, Gels, Slimes) I treat as monster encounters with surprise, movement, attacks, damage per round, vulnerabilities and immunities/resistances to attacks, etc.

Since they dissolve armor, I use the PC's AC as a rough guideline.
If a PC has a shield, their AC w/shield is greater than their AC w/out shield.

As an example, a fighter with plate & shield (AC 2 and AC 3 without shield (no modifiers accounted for yet) is attacked by a black pudding.

A pudding attacks and is able to strike AC 1 means that the shield AND armor is hit (as well as causing damage to the PC flesh inside!)

If the pudding had only rolled high enough to hit AC 2, then only the shield is hit.
Anything lower than that is not affected by the pudding's dissolve effects.

Adjust hit probability with any magical or dexterity (as applicable by armor type worn), as needed.

[Deleted]

Clearly, they're meant to be weaponized, like the pink slime from Ghostbusters II.

Now put that in your game.

[delta]

Dec 25, 2021 0:19:49 GMT -6 bobjester0e said:

For the other POGS (Puddings, Oozes, Gels, Slimes) I treat as monster encounters with surprise, movement, attacks, damage per round, vulnerabilities and immunities/resistances to attacks, etc.

I love that POGS acronym, I might start using that myself. :-)

[delta]

Dec 25, 2021 9:11:05 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

Clearly, they're meant to be weaponized, like the pink slime from Ghostbusters II.

Now put that in your game.

It does occur to me they might constitute one of the very few legitimate threats to an iron golem. They're non-magical (I presume) and specifically destroy metal (c.f. rust monsters).

[Deleted]

I interpreted them as non-magical as well. They're flora or fauna, possibly fungal in origin and part of the natural world of D&D. There could have been a magical or divine origin but "detect magic" doesn't point toward them.

[cometaryorbit]

Yeah, I see them as non-magical creatures, basically natural, at least in the sense of not being inherently magical or artificially created.

They might be a natural response to "unnatural" environments such as dungeons - or just a part of underground ecosystems far more extensive than we have on RL Earth.

Now evolution in a D&D world might be influenced by magical radiation or Platonic forms or something... something that's very weird by our standards.. but from the local in-world perspective I think they're just exotic, dangerous, but natural "vermin". Things that most people don't encounter since non-adventurers don't go into dungeons and caverns, but then, your average medieval European would never run into a cobra or a blue-ringed octopus.

[Mordorandor]

Dec 25, 2021 11:03:32 GMT -6 delta said:

Dec 25, 2021 9:11:05 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

Clearly, they're meant to be weaponized, like the pink slime from Ghostbusters II.

Now put that in your game.

It does occur to me they might constitute one of the very few legitimate threats to an iron golem. They're non-magical (I presume) and specifically destroy metal (c.f. rust monsters).

As I noted in my response to your question about Golems, I insert “fantastic” where I read “magic/al” and then ask again the question. It seems “POGS” are primarily fantastical, leaning toward a ruling that the Iron Golem may be immune. (If I remember correctly the Iron Golem invulnerabilities.)

[cadriel]

If you like the "cleanup crew" I found the generator in Dungeon of the Unknown by geoffrey  quite useful. It looks at them as rolling hits, possibly normal, possibly with some extra effect. There's a specific rule for sticking to weapons.

[Mordorandor]

Jan 11, 2022 12:53:13 GMT -6 Mordorandor said:

Dec 25, 2021 11:03:32 GMT -6 delta said:

It does occur to me they might constitute one of the very few legitimate threats to an iron golem. They're non-magical (I presume) and specifically destroy metal (c.f. rust monsters).

As I noted in my response to your question about Golems, I insert “fantastic” where I read “magic/al” and then ask again the question. It seems “POGS” are primarily fantastical, leaning toward a ruling that the Iron Golem may be immune. (If I remember correctly the Iron Golem invulnerabilities.)

And to expand on this, because an Iron Golem is a magical/fantastic monster, it’s by nature immune to mundane/normal attacks.

[tombowings]

Jan 11, 2022 15:12:44 GMT -6 cadriel said:

If you like the "cleanup crew" I found the generator in Dungeon of the Unknown by geoffrey  quite useful. It looks at them as rolling hits, possibly normal, possibly with some extra effect. There's a specific rule for sticking to weapons.

I've been using it to generate oozes for years. I highly recommend it.

[cometaryorbit]

Jan 11, 2022 18:51:01 GMT -6 Mordorandor said:

Jan 11, 2022 12:53:13 GMT -6 Mordorandor said:

As I noted in my response to your question about Golems, I insert “fantastic” where I read “magic/al” and then ask again the question. It seems “POGS” are primarily fantastical, leaning toward a ruling that the Iron Golem may be immune. (If I remember correctly the Iron Golem invulnerabilities.)

And to expand on this, because an Iron Golem is a magical/fantastic monster, it’s by nature immune to mundane/normal attacks.

Isn't that only because it's specifically immune to non-magical weapons?

I think only those creatures specifically immune (Elementals, Gargoyles, Lycanthropes and more powerful Undead, etc.) are immune to mundane attacks. Not fantastic monsters in general - Ogres, Trolls, Giants, Wyverns etc. can be combated by "normal men" - though obviously at a disadvantage and (especially with the Chainmail-style one-attack-per-HD rule) probably huge losses.

[Mordorandor]

Jan 16, 2022 15:16:04 GMT -6 cometaryorbit said:

Jan 11, 2022 18:51:01 GMT -6 Mordorandor said:

And to expand on this, because an Iron Golem is a magical/fantastic monster, it’s by nature immune to mundane/normal attacks.

Isn't that only because it's specifically immune to non-magical weapons?

I think only those creatures specifically immune (Elementals, Gargoyles, Lycanthropes and more powerful Undead, etc.) are immune to mundane attacks. Not fantastic monsters in general - Ogres, Trolls, Giants, Wyverns etc. can be combated by "normal men" - though obviously at a disadvantage and (especially with the Chainmail-style one-attack-per-HD rule) probably huge losses.

I'm sorry I missed this ... just now seeing the notification for it.

Yes, I might have been a bit overzealous.

I believe this list is all the fully normal types. On this list appear fantastical monsters that are in some ways undersized or oversized versions of normal men or animals.

HOBBIT
SPRITES (and Pixies)
DWARVES (and Gnomes)
GOBLINS (and Kobolds)
ELVES (and Fairies)
ORCS
TROLLS (and Ogres)
GIANTS
ROCS

Here are the mixed category of fantastics, meaning while they're fantastic, normals under certain circumstances can harm them. 

HEROES (and Anti-heroes)
SUPER HEROES
WIZARDS
ENTS "Ents and their accompanying trees are most subject to flame (this is reflected in the Fantastic Combat Table). Any enemy. figure of non-fantastic type that is in melee range of the Ent (or tree) may attempt to set it afire, and certain fantastic-types may also do so."

Here are those fantastic monsters fully immune to normal attacks and affected only by other fantastic types.

LYCANTHROPES (Shape Changers)
TRUE TROLLS
WRAITHS (Nazgul, etc .)
BALROGS
DRAGONS (note they're "impervious to missile or melee hits in normal combat (see Hero and Super Hero sections for the only exceptions)," emphasis mine, seeming to support the notion that Heroes and Super-Heroes are dual-natured normal/fantastic (a hypostatic union?).)
ELEMENTALS
BASILISK (Cockatrice)
WIGHTS (and Ghouls [later Zombies in the 3rd printing])

Then there is a special category of monster that can comprise others, and thus fall into different categories. 

CHIMEREA "Under this general heading fall all sorts of beasts such as Griffons, Hippogriffs, Wyverns, etc. Treat them as the most nearly corresponding type of creature covered herein, i.e., Griffon = Roc,Wyvern = Dragon, etc." Here we have the suggestion to treat WYVERNS like DRAGONS.

GIANT SPIDERS and INSECTS "The possibilities for employing such creatures are almost endless, and the abilities and weaknesses of each should be decided upon prior to the game they are to be used in. For example, a giant spider might be unkillable by normal men, but will kill them unless they roll a save of 8 or better, and it would combat fantastic opponents as if it were a Lycanthrope."

If I had my druthers, I'd lump GOLEMS into the group of fully fantastic monsters that are fully immune to normal attacks and affected only by other fantastic types.

[Deleted]

Golems in their original real world context were often activated by a talisman or pendant of some sort, or maybe a jewel. This acts similarly to lich's phylactery in game terms, meaning you have to destroy the talisman to disable the golem. I prefer this approach for my game world.

[cometaryorbit]

<abbr>OK, I was thinking of ogres, giants, and such as "fantastic" - orcs, goblins, and such maybe not, because they are subject to a fighting-man's multiple attacks, but...
</abbr>