CARCOSA available in 1st and Expurgated Editions

[korgoth]

Still waiting for my copy. Waaahhh!

[geoffrey]

Oct 20, 2008 12:32:46 GMT -6 blackbarn said:

I just got my copy in the mail and had a look through it. Wow, talk about a lot of controversy over nothing... the ritual details are a very minor part of the overall book, which holds a wide variety of other great material. I doubt I would have even given the ritual descriptions a second thought if I hadn't seen the arguments online before reading them, except to think that the inhumanness of them adds to the mood of the setting.

Geoffrey, you've made something pretty cool here. I hope most people will be able to see that and give it a chance despite the negative spin some want to put on the work.

Thanks for your kind words! Early in the writing process I considered making the rituals tamer, but I found that they were less evocative thereby. Also, they had fewer possible adventure hooks that way. To take one example regarding the much-quoted Summon the Amphibious Ones ritual:

The PCs come to a village of White Men and discover that these people keep all their daughters' heads shaved until they marry at age 10. Why?

[geoffrey]

Oct 20, 2008 14:08:19 GMT -6 korgoth said:

Still waiting for my copy. Waaahhh!

Courage, korgoth! I mailed yours First Class on Oct. 14th. They told me it should take 4-6 business days to be delivered. Tomorrow could be the day! ;D

[korgoth]

It has arrived, and may be the single best D&D supplement ever. Powerful, phenomenal stuff. And dinosaurs, cthulhu, robots and ray guns!

You can do so much with this. Conan-types slaying evil sorcerers, tomb robbers plundering forgotten places, cautionary tales of those who overreach their own capabilities in search of power... all of it in a surreal mode of pulpy goodness.

[Rhuvein]

Well, . . . I feel the need to speak up about this “material”. And I find it odd that no one is commenting about the serious negative aspects of Carcosa. Perhaps, some members feel that they - don’t want to “get into it”. And that’s OK.

But I will say that, I respect Finn and my fellow OD&D Discussion forum members here and hope that they will allow me to make my thoughts known.

I cannot stand back while Geoffrey and Korgoth continue to post commentary about this product as though everything is rosy and that everyone likes this “game”. Many members do not like this game.

IMO, it’s garbage and goes too far and crosses the line of common decency in RPGs.

I harbor no ill feelings toward Geoffrey and anyone else who supports this work, but I have say I don’t like the tone and feel of this world/game, nor the specific grisly descriptions of the rituals.

I hope people will not use sections of this RPG supplement that have women and children at their gaming tables. Adult groups are certainly free to choose whether or not they would play in a game with that material.

Sorry, but I suspect that people here are ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla sitting in this thread. I cannot.

Another point: even though Geoffrey has posted his disclaimer and mention there of on the ordering site, I never saw anything to indicate the awful horrific and graphic nature of the descriptive material regarding those despicable rituals.
I actually had quite the interest in this product until that poster on DF wrote his review.

Needless to say, I was shocked and disappointed.

Finally, I’m not trying to bring other forum discussion over here, but this thread has been going on and on and needs a firm voice of dissent.

[calithena]

I haven't bought Carcosa yet and have been enjoying the fact that I don't have to read fights about it on these boards. I will probably check it out and make up my own mind sometime next month, since Geoffrey's a long-time on-line discussion friend.

Thanks for expressing your views, Rhuvein. I'd encourage people to not 'get into it' over the book if we can avoid it. I'm just talking as one voice here, Fin's the only 'real' mod on these boards, but if we could at least try to make sure we express ourselves respectfully before posting on this subject, and not post if we can't do it, I think that would be a nice thing.

Also there's the option of talking about the things we like and ignoring the ones we don't, FWIW.

[blackbarn]

This is not an attack on anyone, but I wanted to state my thoughts as well.

What certain detractors don't seem to "get" is that the rest of us (or at least some of us) actually don't have a negative opinion of the book's contents, and that their opinion of Carcosa is an opinion (and a valid one) but not some absolute fact of the universe that the rest of us are just blind to. We will not come around, and we are not ignoring anything, not even our own sense of morality. It's not an 800 pound gorilla, it's simply a non-issue that doesn't get us bent out of shape or warrant special attention. It's fiction, not a primer for child sacrifice.

Yeah, I read about those same ghastly rituals you did... they would be terrible if it all was real. But it's not real, even if I were to imagine it. Nobody did these things, nor will they. If fictional practices are abhorrent to you, why are you playing a game with evil alignments and black magic to begin with? This is the same core argument used by religious groups to condemn D&D back in the day, and it holds as much water now as it did then.

These rituals in Carcosa are merely an evocative example of the evil nature of magic, and I suspect they're something the players would not even attempt, for in-game moral reasons as well as the fact that most rituals are almost impossibly hard to even attempt, and risky to the caster on top of it.

Now I personally would not feel comfortable with that stuff in my game as PC actions (or even explicitly handled NPC actions), but then, neither would my players. In short, it just isn't going to happen in-game at my table, I'm confident in that. If you are worried about the possibility of someone "enjoying" such depraved acts in your game, maybe you ought to take a good hard look at you and your players, not the game material.

What these descriptions do (and do well) is give a clear indication just how far away from human the sorcerers of Carcosa are. They show the lengths these madmen would go to, with no guarantee of success or even their own survival, to obtain power. That paints quite a picture of the sorcerers on this world, and is a worthy part of the book because of that fact.

I realize the two sides of this issue won't ever agree, and I am not looking for an argument or trying to convince "the opposition", but I needed to put forth my thoughts. I guess I kind of resent being tossed into a pile with actual immoral people just because I am not deeply offended by someone's artistic expression.

[driver]

I was going to respond to a couple of posts here, but I'm trying to overcome my tendency to react piquishly when I strongly disagree with folks on the internet, and I don't believe this is a subject that lends itself well to rational discussion right now.

geoffrey, you'll have my order presently.

[makofan]

Naysayers should probably read Book 2 of SPI's Dragonquest, a reasonably popular and mainstream game of the time. It passed without much comment.

I think it is obvious in Carcosa that no sane person would ever perform the rituals. The evil sorcerors aren't sane, and must be stopped. In one of my Ultima games (Ultima V I think) there is a spell so powerful it will destroy the world. You can cast it if you want ...

A depiction of evil is not a condoning of evil. An available but distasteful player option does not have to be chosen.

[Melan]

Oct 21, 2008 22:34:42 GMT -6 makofan said:

I think it is obvious in Carcosa that no sane person would ever perform the rituals. The evil sorcerors aren't sane, and must be stopped. In one of my Ultima games (Ultima V I think) there is a spell so powerful it will destroy the world. You can cast it if you want ...

That's a bit misleading. Evil on such a grand scale lacks immediacy and it becomes abstraction (remember the quote by Stalin?); when taken to the individual level, the horror is more poignant.

[korgoth]

Fact: there is far more explicit and horrifying material in Jack Vance.

Vance has the multiple rape of a female Christian saint by a demonic creature was played for laughs. People around here kiss Vance's butt all the time. In the Dying Earth series, there's a bear-demon that rapes women to death and Cugel the Clever himself is a rapist, and on at least on occasion he gives up a woman (a some arrogant sorceress) to multiple rape just so he can be rid of her. Again, played for laughs.

Geoffrey's world is bleak. But it's nowhere near as rape-o-centric as Vance. And on this board and others, people light candles to Vance.

So you'll forgive me if my Hypocrisy Meter is redlining right about now.

[greyharp]

I received my copy today (thanks Geoffrey) and although I wasn't supposed to look at it till I "received" it as a Christmas present, I simply had to read it cover to cover after the last week's storm.

Reading through the 96 Sorcerous Rituals was heavy going. I know Geoffrey has defended the hysteria about the rape issue by pointing out that only four (I think) of the 96 rituals involve rape, but I counted 77 that involved human sacrifice, with the manner of each sacrifice spelled out quite clearly. I'm not a fan of the Horror genre, so by the 25th one I got weary. I remembered that Geoffrey had put a warning that Carcosa was suitable for mature persons only and had to agree with Rhuvein when he said:

Oct 21, 2008 19:25:03 GMT -6 Rhuvein said:

even though Geoffrey has posted his disclaimer and mention there of on the ordering site, I never saw anything to indicate the awful horrific and graphic nature of the descriptive material regarding those despicable rituals.

However, Geoffrey has now changed the warning on his blog to make it both explicit and to the point. No-one going to his blog and ordering the book can say now they haven't been warned.

I have strongly defended Geoffrey and his Carcosa supplement on three DF threads and a handful of blog posts. The bad behaviour of the morally offended has far outweighed the supposed crimes of Geoffrey. The slander, the vicious and hateful name-calling, the hypocrisy and childish, hysterical ranting, mostly based on misinformation and ignorance (I know of only two detractors who have actually seen the product) is worthy of a good, old-fashioned witch hunt. Some who have joined the screaming mob are obviously quite immature (the name-callers and those who threaten physical violence) and their reaction comes as no surprise, but some are seemingly mature and level-headed types who have earned a lot of respect in the rpg community.

Oct 21, 2008 22:04:56 GMT -6 blackbarn said:

I guess I kind of resent being tossed into a pile with actual immoral people just because I am not deeply offended by someone's artistic expression.

And here's the rub. I too am angry, resentful and offended at being accused of being a sicko, having my character slandered by people who don't know me, because of something they haven't read, in a book they've never seen. The only other place I've seen this sort of behaviour was in a fundamentalist, pentecostal church that I had the misfortune of wasting some years of my life with. The sort of people who protest outside cinemas over "evil" movies they've never seen "and never will because they're evil!"

Oct 21, 2008 19:25:03 GMT -6 Rhuvein said:

I think this so called RPG should be shunned and ignored by all serious and moral gamers.

Firstly, it's not a "so called RPG". The first four words on the front cover are "Book of Rules Options", or in other words, a supplement for a DM to pick and choose whatever parts he likes to use in his game - and that is a very important and vital point here in this whole circus, one that the detractors blithely brush aside.

But more seriously - I'm not a moral gamer huh? Do you know me Rhuvein? I can't recall ever having met you? In fact, I don't think you know anything at all about me or my morals.

I have four children. My gaming group includes five children, all of them 12 years and under. I am 41 years old, have a healthy dose of intelligence and common sense, and my morals are of a higher standard than many I've met along life's road. And yet because I don't agree with the hysterical rantings of my moral judges, I am accused of being at the very least, sympathetic to child rape and murder, at worst guilty of wanting to act it out. When did intelligence, common sense and reason get thrown out the window amongst the older, wiser gamers?

It should also be pointed out to those who are worried about damage to the hobby and its reputation, this is a hand-made supplement, printed on a home computer, that is being privately sold. It's not being stocked at your local gaming store. It's not going to be bought by accident by non-gamers. Its print run by its very nature is going to be extremely limited, as will its customer base. This should also be taken into account when measuring the level of the reaction we've seen.

A great crime certainly has occurred this week and it has nothing to with Geoffrey's publishing of Carcosa.

I look forward to one day gaming in Carcosa. It will be a very different one to the one in the book, but that's what we do as D&Ders don't we? We take things and make them our own, chuck out what we don't like, add and alter what we do, house-rule and modify - it ain't rocket science.

[James Maliszewski]

It would be a terrible shame if this board lost its "innocence" and required heavy-handed moderation. I don't think I've seen a single instance of it in the nearly-year I've been here.

Please, everyone, play nicely.

[Melan]

Oct 22, 2008 0:57:19 GMT -6 korgoth said:

Fact: there is far more explicit and horrifying material in Jack Vance.

Immediacy vs. reference, on-stage vs. off-stage, picaresque vs. cosmic horror, etc.

Pardon me if I don't consider your "Hypocrisy Meter" an accurate instrument.

[geoffrey]

Oct 22, 2008 4:10:22 GMT -6 Greyharp said:

I remembered that Geoffrey had put a warning that Carcosa was suitable for mature persons only and had to agree with Rhuvein when he said:

Oct 21, 2008 19:25:03 GMT -6 Rhuvein said:

even though Geoffrey has posted his disclaimer and mention there of on the ordering site, I never saw anything to indicate the awful horrific and graphic nature of the descriptive material regarding those despicable rituals.

However, Geoffrey has now changed the warning on his blog to make it both explicit and to the point. No-one going to his blog and ordering the book can say now they haven't been warned.

I first read of M. A. R. Barker's The Book of Ebon Bindings on various D&D message boards. I vaguely remember first seeing it mentioned on Necromancer Games' site, but I'm not sure. Anyway, after seeing it highly praised (and never a word said in criticism), I bought this much-recommended book.

I (obviously incorrectly) assumed that more people were familiar with The Book of Ebon Bindings than is the case. Heck, a lot of people hadn't even heard of it, much less read it! Therefore I made the warning on my website much more definite and particular.

I want to emphasize here that Barker's book is much better than mine. I think my book is pretty good, but Barker is a genius and all his Tekumel stuff is one giant masterpiece.

[verhaden]

There's a difference on a visceral level, yes. It's comparable to saying "frick" as opposed to "f**k." Or when people censor the word "nuts" by using "sh**." You're changing the way its presented, but the same meaning is intended.

I suppose that there is a difference between saying "she was raped" and a more detailed, graphic description involving a line by line description of the acts involved, in that the latter forces the reader to be a more involved participant in the text. That in and of itself is probably the cause of so much discontent.

I wonder if, as a result of today's society, this level of involvement is required or demanded by the genre. We're constantly assailed by violence and, at a relatively lesser extent in America, sexuality. We're conditioned to it, in a sense, and, on some level, desensitized. To bridge this disconnect, perhaps this is where we must stand to evoke an emotional reaction--even if its an angry gut reaction at best.

[calithena]

Oct 22, 2008 6:12:34 GMT -6 James Maliszewski said:

It would be a terrible shame if this board lost its "innocence" and required heavy-handed moderation. I don't think I've seen a single instance of it in the nearly-year I've been here.

Please, everyone, play nicely.

What he said, again.

We have actually had a few problems that required moderation in the past, but we always return to good community here. I think we will this time too, regardless of whether some kind of moderation happens.

Not everyone likes the same things or games the same way. It's OK. This particular sort of discussion conducted on the internet inevitably leads, not to persuasion or common ground, but to opposing sides dug in in battle, exaggerating the legitimate merits of their own respective positions and denigrating those on the other side.

That pattern is intellectually non-productive and socially destructive, therefore a waste of people's time. As a personal strategy I recommend finding other things to do. Which I will now do, taking my exit from this thread...

[Arminath]

After watching and reading through the posts here and on DF, seeing everything from past authors, morality, politics, religion and the kitchen sink get tossed into everyone's arguements for or against the type of material Geoffery has presented (and explicitly notified everyone about ahead of time) the core root of every arguement boils down to one thing and one thing only: belief.

Everyone involved BELIEVES they are 'right' or in the moral majority, or that gamers not like them are 'wrong', or that killing 'monsters' is ok but human sacrifice isn't (in the context of the game ONLY), and so on and so forth, etc, etc.

Nations go to war, religions clash, democrats and republicans campaign against each other, every friction that exists between one person or another is because they each BELIEVE they are in the 'right'.

I know this would be an adult way of handling the whole situation, but quite simply, if you like the product Geoffery has created, buy it and enjoy it. If you don't, then avoid it and move on. No one is going to sway anyone else's beliefs that they are 'right' or 'wrong' and people are just going to eventually escalate their arguements until stupid crap happens and it gets ruined for everyone.

Maybe no one has noticed, but every eventual war fought, both military and non-military, has started with 2 people who believe they are 'right' and the other was 'wrong', gathered like-minded people to their cause and then did something stupid....

Let's try to avoid that. Even though I don't post up very often I do like this place.

[James Maliszewski]

Oct 22, 2008 7:08:02 GMT -6 calithena said:

That pattern is intellectually non-productive and socially destructive, therefore a waste of people's time. As a personal strategy I recommend finding other things to do. Which I will now do, taking my exit from this thread...

Good advice. There are already enough places on the internet where one can go and engage in such things; I do not want to see these boards become another one of them.

If this discussion is to continue, let's keep it an exchange of ideas. Please.

[geoffrey]

Out of curiosity, last night I played with a copy of a text file of Supplement V: CARCOSA. I went through it and edited the rituals, making them as uncontroversial as the spells in the AD&D Players Handbook.

The resulting document is 2 pages shorter than the original. Thus, the controversial content consists of about 2% of the book.

I'd love to hear what people think about the other 98%.

[badger2305]

I'd like to make sure I understand the objections to Carcosa (which I have not seen yet). Let me be clear upfront, I'm not trying to debate this issue - I'm trying to understand it. There seems to be a LOT of talking past one another, so what I really really want is to have a more reasoned and reasonable discussion of it.

Objection 1: there are graphic depictions of rituals, activities and behavior in Carcosa that are by their nature evil in character.

Objection 1a: a specific objection is that, unlike other depictions of evil in gaming, these involve the game rules - which suggests that player-characters may engage in these rituals as a part of game-play.

Objection 1b: a specific objection is that Carcosa's immediate and graphic depictions of evil are different from other examples in gaming, because those are either off-stage, or cosmic (and therefore remote), or not fully-described (either in game terms or in setting terms).

Objection 2: Graphic depictions of evil in game material is at best questionable, because it may be seen as either directly or indirectly condoning such behavior in the real world.

....is this a fair summation? I really want to be absolutely fair about this, because there's a lot of room for discussion, once we get our terms defined. So if I'm not stating something accurately, I want to fix it and get it right - and I'm not trying to set up any sort of "sand-bag" - I want a real discussion about these issues. If the heat gets turned up by this, I'm going to step away immediately - so let's try to be good about this, as James M. has suggested.

[James Maliszewski]

Oct 22, 2008 7:51:59 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

Jamie Mal

Jeff Rients has a lot to answer for ...

[badger2305]

Hey, I can fix it!

[Rhuvein]

Oct 22, 2008 4:10:22 GMT -6 Greyharp said:

Oct 21, 2008 19:25:03 GMT -6 Rhuvein said:

I think this so called RPG should be shunned and ignored by all serious and moral gamers.

But more seriously - I'm not a moral gamer huh? Do you know me Rhuvein? I can't recall ever having met you? In fact, I don't think you know anything at all about me or my morals.

I have four children. My gaming group includes five children, all of them 12 years and under. I am 41 years old, have a healthy dose of intelligence and common sense, and my morals are of a higher standard than many I've met along life's road. And yet because I don't agree with the hysterical rantings of my moral judges, I am accused of being at the very least, sympathetic to child rape and murder, at worst guilty of wanting to act it out. When did intelligence, common sense and reason get thrown out the window amongst the older, wiser gamers?

My apologies. Bad choice of wording (which I will edit) as I don’t mean to suggest you or anyone who buys this supplement is immoral. Morality will come at the gaming table when you decide whether or not you will use that graphic material with your children present during the game. I’ll assume you will not.

I too have kids, women and grownups in my gaming group and so to respond to some other comments, I do not allow evil characters as PCs nor monster women and children. And I don’t utilize any questionable stuff from D&DGs or any other gaming supplement.

It’s basically a fun, good against evil fantasy atmosphere with heroic deeds where the players and their characters feel great at the end of the day.

[apeloverage]

Oct 22, 2008 7:51:59 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

I'd like to make sure I understand the objections to Carcosa (which I have not seen yet). Let me be clear upfront, I'm not trying to debate this issue - I'm trying to understand it. There seems to be a LOT of talking past one another, so what I really really want is to have a more reasoned and reasonable discussion of it.

Objection 1: there are graphic depictions of rituals, activities and behavior in Carcosa that are by their nature evil in character.

Objection 1a: a specific objection is that, unlike other depictions of evil in gaming, these involve the game rules - which suggests that player-characters may engage in these rituals as a part of game-play.

Objection 1b: a specific objection is that Carcosa's immediate and graphic depictions of evil are different from other examples in gaming, because those are either off-stage, or cosmic (and therefore remote), or not fully-described (either in game terms or in setting terms).

Objection 2: Graphic depictions of evil in game material is at best questionable, because it may be seen as either directly or indirectly condoning such behavior in the real world.

....is this a fair summation? I really want to be absolutely fair about this, because there's a lot of room for discussion, once we get our terms defined. So if I'm not stating something accurately, I want to fix it and get it right - and I'm not trying to set up any sort of "sand-bag" - I want a real discussion about these issues. If the heat gets turned up by this, I'm going to step away immediately - so let's try to be good about this, as James M. has suggested.

Also, I think, that there are in-game rewards for being evil (access to the various powers given by rituals, ability to play one of the two classes effectively)?

[korgoth]

Oct 22, 2008 6:25:09 GMT -6 Melan said:

picaresque vs. cosmic horror

Oh, you mean it would be OK if it was funny? That's what Vance does: he makes jokes about innocent women getting raped.

I want to understand what you're saying. You're saying that if Geoffrey had played the rape for laughs it would be OK, but since it is portrayed in a non-humorous light that is where he went wrong?

I guess I'm the opposite. I don't consider rape a joke and I'd be put off if he had portrayed it that way.

[geoffrey]

Oct 22, 2008 9:52:07 GMT -6 apeloverage said:

Also, I think, that there are in-game rewards for being evil (access to the various powers given by rituals, ability to play one of the two classes effectively)?

Only about 1 out of 6 of the rituals will work without human sacrifice. All of the rituals that require human sacrifice are inherently dangerous for the sorcerer to perform. Conversely, none of the rituals that do NOT require human sacrifice are inherently dangerous to the sorcerer.

In short, evil sorcerers have more guns than do good sorcerers. But the evil sorcerers' guns often blow-up in their faces (often with fatal results), while the good sorcerers' guns never blow-up in their faces.

[korgoth]

Oct 22, 2008 10:14:52 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Oct 22, 2008 9:52:07 GMT -6 apeloverage said:

Also, I think, that there are in-game rewards for being evil (access to the various powers given by rituals, ability to play one of the two classes effectively)?

Only about 1 out of 6 of the rituals will work without human sacrifice. All of the rituals that require human sacrifice are inherently dangerous for the sorcerer to perform. Conversely, none of the rituals that do NOT require human sacrifice are inherently dangerous to the sorcerer.

In short, evil sorcerers have more guns than do good sorcerers. But the evil sorcerers' guns often blow-up in their faces (often with fatal results), while the good sorcerers' guns never blow-up in their faces.

It's pretty obvious to me that evil sorcerers are playing a dangerous game. Most of these critters, like Cthulhu and his pals, are at the top tier of saving throws. So they get as Save vs. Spells to resist the binding... that means they need an 8. If the sorcerer is of epic standing (16th level or greater, and I don't recall seeing any in the hex keys) they can reduce that saving throw to an 11. So a sorcerer at the absolute top of his game still has a 45% of being TPK'ed (unless he can turn around and beat a monster with 50+ HD and save or die effects). And most sorcerers would be looking at an enemy save of 8-9, which means they have at best a 50/50 shot of surviving.

The obvious implication is that evil sorcerers are playing Russian Roulette. But we knew that anyway, because that's how it is in the source material too.

[jimlotfp]

Oct 22, 2008 10:06:39 GMT -6 korgoth said:

Oh, you mean it would be OK if it was funny?

I'm beginning to think more and more this is entirely where the outrage lies. (the distaste would have been there regardless...) The rituals are presented as soberly and matter-of-fact as the dice conventions and saving throw charts, without comment. If it was sensational ("SUPPLEMENT FIVE FEATURES MASSIVELY EVIL SPELLS, SEE HOW CONTROVERSIAL IT IS!") then it I don't think it would have been taken seriously. But it's not. And it freaked people out.

It's been a major reality check for me too. It's been so very long since I've been around people that are able to be offended... I'd forgotten what it sounds like. ("my" crowd is at the point of "Another Satanic Nazi band? boooooring. Another gimmick please." And baby-raping is so passe... seriously... it's so difficult to find the good stuff when all the kids are into the things that push their parents' buttons so blatantly... metal and RPGs... both now over 30 years old and having to appeal to both the excitable rebellious youngster and the jaded old veteran...)

I'm also jealous. Such reactions aren't able to be consciously summoned... it's always by accident and the creator is surprised by it. I tried to get the "heebie-jeebie" goosebumps going with the Creature Generator by making sure the art was raw and unsanitized (and polled people I knew about what scares them... that's how the seals got in there... I know somebody that's FREAKED OUT by seals)... but... all I made was a useful game aid.

I see Carcosa as presenting a horror game, and in a way I'm jealous of the people that are outraged... because I watch a lot of horror movies (good and schlock) because I want that feeling... the feeling that reality broke, that people out there have such alien ideas that my world-view can't possibly absorb them, the feeling that my world is just that more dim knowing this is out there (but I want fiction... no interest in looking at the real-life autopsy photo sites and such)... if I enjoy it and think it's good or well-made or appealing, then by definition to me it's not horror because it's not breaking me away from my own senses... or not good horror, anyway. So Carcosa kind of fails that way for me, but then I see it as succeeding for the very people that won't even touch it.

[blackbarn]

Oct 22, 2008 7:48:23 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

I'd love to hear what people think about the other 98%.

I love the concept of new colors, and how they are integrated into the world in various places. After reading about them enough, you kind of get used to them and accept them as "normal" on Carcosa, even though they don't exist in our reality. It's a neat effect.

The random robot generator and all the space alien stuff is fun to look through, and comes across as a great mystery of Carcosa for player characters to encounter. It all feels like it doesn't really belong on this planet, and yet fits perfectly as part of the weird game setting.

There's a nice selection of new monsters, all evocative of the strangeness on Carcosa in some way, even the relatively mundane giant ants (I like a particular hex description regarding them, but won't spoil it). I also think the Lake Monster in particular is cool, fitting the traditional lore of our "real" lake monsters, such as Nessie.

The hex map and hex descriptions... quite an inspirational section. There's no excuse for PCs having nothing to do when every hex has some interesting feature. Whole adventures could focus around a lot of them, and they are great seeds to plant ideas in the mind of a DM or serve as an example of how to do it for a DM's homebrew setting.

I don't think I will run Carcosa as the primary setting of a campaign, but I have ideas for integrating it into a standard D&D game as someplace the PCs could get transported to if they aren't careful. My group's style wouldn't work well with some of the darker elements, but it can still be a world of bizarre alien horrors that PCs would want to escape from.

I could actually see this world being run as a realm of pure Lovecraftian horror, a Barsoom-like planet of adventure, or anything else in-between, maybe even post-apocalyptic or comedic! All it would take is DM tweaking and careful use of the various elements presented to fit it to another vision (not that I am slighting Geoffrey's - it's an intriguing setting as-is.)

Anyone else who's got it have things to add about the other 98%?