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Post by geoffrey on Feb 6, 2021 13:11:13 GMT -6
Someday my fantasy retroclone will be a fully illustrated version of the original LBB + Greyhawk. So many retroclones have been made and done so well, I figure that's the fresh angle I can give it (plus a little streamlining and personal house rules). You can find them on my blog if you click on the ART tag. I look forward to seeing your retroclone.
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Post by Zenopus on Feb 6, 2021 13:38:59 GMT -6
Same here. That will always be my mental picture of Gnomes. So I find them a bit absurd as a playable character race. What D&D did to them makes them no longer a gnome - a completely different species. What I didn't like about D&D (sorry, EGG!) was that Gnomes were far to similar to Dwarves to warrant their inclusion. YMMV, of course. In Meadows & Megaliths I decided to compensate for their very small size (up to 16" at most -- something which would weigh heavily against them in melee combat), was to grant them much stronger magical powers -- making them a class of tiny MUs, if you will, and giving them some nifty "racial abilities". Gnomes in AD&D aren't really any more similar to Dwarves than Elves are to Humans. Elves are just shorter Humans with more magic powers; Gnomes are just shorter Dwarves with more magic powers.
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Post by dicebro on Feb 6, 2021 16:44:21 GMT -6
Call me crazy but I recollect that Elves can be raised by Clerics according to the Men & Magic Volume. Hobbits were left out as I recall. Oh? I thought it was quite the opposite but that could be a residual BECMI ism in my cluttered brain. I'm going to read that section again in case it comes up in my campaign. I wonder if this was a passive jab at the Tolkien Estate for the C&D letter re: “hobbits”
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Post by tdenmark on Feb 6, 2021 17:41:57 GMT -6
I look forward to seeing your retroclone. Me too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 18:24:22 GMT -6
Oh? I thought it was quite the opposite but that could be a residual BECMI ism in my cluttered brain. I'm going to read that section again in case it comes up in my campaign. I wonder if this was a passive jab at the Tolkien Estate for the C&D letter re: “hobbits” Ha. You never know! Like I said, this is one of many things that's up to interpretation and I always liked the "Hobbits are basically Men" line of thought. At the very least they seem more Mannish than the other Demi-Humans but that's all down to personal preference. I can see a solid argument for not Raising them but I think I'll allow it in my game if those exact circumstances should arise. I was gonna allow Elves too despite my misunderstanding but it was good to correct that. I've got a bad habit of reading through my Rules Cyclopedia when I'm bored so I keep getting these Mentzer-isms mixed into my OD&D understanding.
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bobjester0e
Level 4 Theurgist
DDO, DCC, or more Lost City map work? Oh, the hardship of making adult decisions! ;)
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Post by bobjester0e on Feb 6, 2021 20:27:18 GMT -6
I remember James Ward wrote something about elves not being affected by resurrection or raise dead, but reincarnate worked fine. I am sure it was either an article in Dragon, or in an AD&D rulebook, but I cannot recall which. I do recall it was early AD&D or 0e.
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Post by geoffrey on Feb 6, 2021 20:46:19 GMT -6
I always liked the "Hobbits are basically Men" line of thought. Me too. On one side of the line are men, hobbits, and real-world animals. On the other side of the line are all the other imaginary creatures of D&D.
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Post by Zenopus on Feb 6, 2021 22:54:30 GMT -6
It's AD&D that leaves Elves out of Raise Dead (and Resurrection, which is the renamed Raise Dead Fully); it works on a "dwarf, gnome, half-elf, halfling, or human". It's possibly influenced by Tolkien, i.e., the different post-death fates for Men and Elves.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2021 5:04:15 GMT -6
It's AD&D that leaves Elves out of Raise Dead (and Resurrection, which is the renamed Raise Dead Fully); it works on a "dwarf, gnome, half-elf, halfling, or human". It's possibly influenced by Tolkien, i.e., the different post-death fates for Men and Elves. There you go. I knew I read that somewhere. I was very perplexed because it's not in OD&D or BECMI. I verified. I guess this is one of many proprietary differences between D&D and AD&D. One of the lesser discussed ones.
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