Questioning Chirine ba Kal on the Original Game(s)

[foxroe]

chirinebakal - Could you expound upon the "game mechanic" that you use in your games? Is it something you developed from your Braunstein/DA/MARB experiences? Can you give an example of how you would handle a need for a die roll (i.e. combat, parlay, etc.)? I hope I'm being clear with my questions.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2017 16:26:58 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

From the other thread;

Jun 18, 2017 18:46:16 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Yes, I do, but all your brains would explode if I told you.

All of you good folks would have had conniption fits watching my games yesterday at the Free RPG Day event at the FLGS, where I was running my games just like I learned from Dave, all those years ago (with a big helping from Gary and Phil along the way, of course) at Coffman Union.

Do carry on, as Gronan would say; I'm laughing myself silly watching this thread.

Please expand on this. I would very much like to hear how character creation was done in Blackmoor.

Let us assume, for the nonce, that Dave Arneson is an authority on Dave Arneson's 'Blackmoor' games. I asked him, back in 1978 or so (in regard to the "Star Wars" campaign, which led to the Great Mos Eisely Spaceport Raid Braunstein) how I should handle PCs as there was no set of rules available for such a campaign and I was working from nothing. He pointed out that the PC's 'ability' numbers were guides to the GM, as an indication of just how good or bad a PC was going to be at something. Dave liked having PCs with 'skills', which he passed along to Phil, and the numbers indicated what the likely percentage was going to be of success or failure. Use one's preferred random number generator - he preferred six-siders, Phil preferred twenty-siders as what is now call d100 and what we called 'percentile dice'.

'Rolling up a PC' meant that the GM and the player established how good/bad the PC was in doing things, and eventually the number generated by the dice rolls was used for the 'stats'. One thing that he did mention was the the 'stats' were originally more or less estimated by him, from what he knew of the player involved. So, since Gronan is a Jedi (as he was in my campaign), he got better stats in things like 'wisdom' and 'dexterity'; being a tricky player, able to think on his feet, he scored well in 'cunning'.

Does this help? The next reply might also be useful in this effort...

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2017 18:43:40 GMT -6 foxroe said:

chirinebakal - Could you expound upon the "game mechanic" that you use in your games? Is it something you developed from your Braunstein/DA/MARB experiences? Can you give an example of how you would handle a need for a die roll (i.e. combat, parlay, etc.)? I hope I'm being clear with my questions.

Sure - except that I didn't develop it, Prof. Barker did after being introduced to RPGs by Dave Arneson. Both of them tended to play in this style, without a lot of referring to formal rule sets. 
Prof. M. A. R. Barker's Perfected Role-playing Game System:

1. You roll percentile dice;
2. I roll percentile dice;
3. We compare the results;
4. If you roll high, your view of reality prevails;
5. If I roll high, my view of reality prevails;
6. If we're close, we negotiate.

This worked quite well in our game with Phil for over a decade, worked for Dave Arneson (admittedly with six-siders, most of the time) and has worked just fine for me for over four decades. However:

This game system requires a referee / GM who is educated, well-read, and can think fast on his feet.


If I may be blunt, this style of play requires a GM in the Arneson/Gygax/Barker mold, one who is well-versed in the world-setting that the adventure is taking place in - Gary, for example, was very, very well-read in medieval history. I can do Ancient Egypt without a set of rules in front of me, simply because I know a lot about the setting; Barsoom likewise. The Big Three knew their world-settings inside out - having created them may have had a lot to do with this, I suspect - and were all able to 'fake it' when things happened in their campaigns. There is no safety net in this play style - you either stand or fall on how good you are at thinking quickly, both as a player or a GM.

I've discussed this style of play before, in the Braunstein context, and the reaction of it all being "too loosy-goosy, too hand-wavy" was pretty common; these three guys played that way in their home campaigns, and I simply ape what I saw them do. With usually the same result - a table surrounded by people laughing their heads off and having a good time.

Player at Gencon game: "Mr. Arneson, what edition of D&D will you be using?"
Dave: "Hi, I'm Dave Arneson; nice to meet you!"

(actual conversation.)

Does any of this help, at all?

[foxroe]

Thank you Uncle! That's very interesting. It seems a very fast-paced style of gaming. Some follow-up questions, if you will indulge me:

1. "[Dave] preferred six-siders" - Did he use the "contest of dice" method you describe with a single d6, 2d6, 3d6, or did the number of dice vary by the situation (allowing for the referee and the player to roll different amounts of six-siders depending on who had the advantage)?

2. "These three guys played that way" - Did Gary sometimes use a similar system for a "loosy-goosy"* game (i.e. dice contests), or did he stick closer to the original D&D rules?

3. Is this method used to resolve combat as well? Would you be willing to write up an example?

4. Would character stats (dexterity, cunning, whatever, etc.) modify the rolls at all?

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 16:16:36 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Both of them tended to play in this style, without a lot of referring to formal rule sets.

This game system requires a referee / GM who is educated, well-read, and can think fast on his feet.

If I may be blunt, this style of play requires a GM in the Arneson/Gygax/Barker mold, one who is well-versed in the world-setting that the adventure is taking place in - Gary, for example, was very, very well-read in medieval history. I can do Ancient Egypt without a set of rules in front of me, simply because I know a lot about the setting; Barsoom likewise. The Big Three knew their world-settings inside out - having created them may have had a lot to do with this, I suspect - and were all able to 'fake it' when things happened in their campaigns. There is no safety net in this play style - you either stand or fall on how good you are at thinking quickly, both as a player or a GM.

I've discussed this style of play before, in the Braunstein context, and the reaction of it all being "too loosy-goosy, too hand-wavy" was pretty common; these three guys played that way in their home campaigns, and I simply ape what I saw them do. With usually the same result - a table surrounded by people laughing their heads off and having a good time.

Player at Gencon game: "Mr. Arneson, what edition of D&D will you be using?"
Dave: "Hi, I'm Dave Arneson; nice to meet you!"

(actual conversation.)

Does any of this help, at all?

Thank you chirinebakal for this and your other posts, very helpful indeed. While I would never claim to be in their league regarding the three things you mention above for the referee, nevertheless that is the style that I ref in. I know my world because it is my creation and I love to play with no safety net. From the time I first reffed in 1975 to the present, my game is "too loosy-goosy, too hand-wavy" and I have run up to 30 players at the same time doing that. The game is very fast moving this way and that is the result that I get - a table surrounded by people laughing their heads off and having a good time.

You Gencon game anecdote is priceless.

[foxroe]

Role-playing is serious business - IT IS A COMPLICATED ART-FORM! Joviality is for plebeians and heretics! If there are no rules governing levity, it is not allowed. [/facetiousness]

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 18:45:18 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Thank you Uncle! That's very interesting. It seems a very fast-paced style of gaming. Some follow-up questions, if you will indulge me:

1. "[Dave] preferred six-siders" - Did he use the "contest of dice" method you describe with a single d6, 2d6, 3d6, or did the number of dice vary by the situation (allowing for the referee and the player to roll different amounts of six-siders depending on who had the advantage)?

2. "These three guys played that way" - Did Gary sometimes use a similar system for a "loosy-goosy"* game (i.e. dice contests), or did he stick closer to the original D&D rules?

3. Is this method used to resolve combat as well? Would you be willing to write up an example?

4. Would character stats (dexterity, cunning, whatever, etc.) modify the rolls at all?

It is indeed very fast paced, which was how Dave liked it; faster play meant for more of what I think is called 'immersion' these days, and also increased what we used to call 'the fog of war'.

1. What is a 'dice contest', please? I am not familiar with that term. The number of dice usually stayed the same, as Dave seemed to prefer the probability curve of 3-18 that you got from 3d6. I can think of only a very, very few times when he used a single d6 for something.

2. When Gary ran his game for me, he used the same 3d6 probabilities. I never saw him using 'The Rules', but then I sort of assumed, like with Dave, that he knew what he was doing.

3a. Yes, after Phil gave up on rolling a d20 to hit and then d6 + whatever for damage in late 1978 or so. Dave used the same thing when he and Phil sent us off to Blackmoor, I'm guessing on the custom of "Phil's house, Phil's rules". He was just as deadly a GM, though.

3b. Not particularly; I'm dyslexic and ambidextrous, so typing really tires me out. If I may, I'd suggest watching the video of an underworld adventure that I ran and which is up on my YouTube channel; there are four half-hour segments from the game, and you can get a lot of examples of how this all works from them - it'll be easier on you, too!

4. No; the stats were the roll, as in "Roll against your stamina."

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 19:19:00 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Jun 20, 2017 16:16:36 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Both of them tended to play in this style, without a lot of referring to formal rule sets.

This game system requires a referee / GM who is educated, well-read, and can think fast on his feet.

If I may be blunt, this style of play requires a GM in the Arneson/Gygax/Barker mold, one who is well-versed in the world-setting that the adventure is taking place in - Gary, for example, was very, very well-read in medieval history. I can do Ancient Egypt without a set of rules in front of me, simply because I know a lot about the setting; Barsoom likewise. The Big Three knew their world-settings inside out - having created them may have had a lot to do with this, I suspect - and were all able to 'fake it' when things happened in their campaigns. There is no safety net in this play style - you either stand or fall on how good you are at thinking quickly, both as a player or a GM.

I've discussed this style of play before, in the Braunstein context, and the reaction of it all being "too loosy-goosy, too hand-wavy" was pretty common; these three guys played that way in their home campaigns, and I simply ape what I saw them do. With usually the same result - a table surrounded by people laughing their heads off and having a good time.

Player at Gencon game: "Mr. Arneson, what edition of D&D will you be using?"
Dave: "Hi, I'm Dave Arneson; nice to meet you!"

(actual conversation.)

Does any of this help, at all?

Thank you chirinebakal for this and your other posts, very helpful indeed. While I would never claim to be in their league regarding the three things you mention above for the referee, nevertheless that is the style that I ref in. I know my world because it is my creation and I love to play with no safety net. From the time I first reffed in 1975 to the present, my game is "too loosy-goosy, too hand-wavy" and I have run up to 30 players at the same time doing that. The game is very fast moving this way and that is the result that I get - a table surrounded by people laughing their heads off and having a good time.

You Gencon game anecdote is priceless.

You're welcome! Happy to be amusing, too!

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 20:56:42 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Role-playing is serious business - IT IS A COMPLICATED ART-FORM! Joviality is for plebeians and heretics! If there are no rules governing levity, it is not allowed. [/facetiousness]

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Jun 20, 2017 20:56:42 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Role-playing is serious business - IT IS A COMPLICATED ART-FORM! Joviality is for plebeians and heretics! If there are no rules governing levity, it is not allowed. [/facetiousness]

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

Well said! If you want serious there are plenty of drama games to choose from, the original games are not them.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2017 16:53:58 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

It is indeed very fast paced, which was how Dave liked it; faster play meant for more of what I think is called 'immersion' these days, and also increased what we used to call 'the fog of war'.

I like very fast paced too and for exactly the same reasons.

Jun 21, 2017 16:53:58 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

3b. Not particularly; I'm dyslexic and ambidextrous, so typing really tires me out. If I may, I'd suggest watching the video of an underworld adventure that I ran and which is up on my YouTube channel; there are four half-hour segments from the game, and you can get a lot of examples of how this all works from them - it'll be easier on you, too!

This is great!

Chirine ba Kal

Tekumel Braunstein Game, 2013 Part 1, 2, and 3.

Chirine's Workbench Podcast four episodes.

Miniatures Game, four episodes.

Remembering M.A.R. Barker 1929-2012 - A memorial slideshow created by Janet L. Moe to celebrate the life of Professor M.A.R. Barker, creator of the world of Tékumel and a scholar of South East Asian languages

Post more please if you have them.

[foxroe]

Jun 21, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

Oh my, sorry if I riled you.

It is indeed a shame. I can think of two personal examples right off the bat. In college, I was invited to what I was told was a "really awesome game of D&D". The referee's maps and the campaign description were impressive; I was excited to dive right in. However, our very first encounter was with a small group of bandits along the trail to the dungeon - it took the entire session (about 4 hours) to just resolve the combat. Ugh. Years later, while in the Navy, I was invited to a game run by a barracks-mate of mine. The description of the game world was very gonzo, so I thought, "OK, I'm down with some light-hearted fun!" As the first game progressed, the DM was all business and extremely rail-roading (we ran into a giant of some sort right off the bat; it seemed more planned by the DM and less a matter of a group of stupid players making the wrong choice). Needless to say, I politely dropped out of both games immediately.

Jun 21, 2017 16:53:58 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

1. What is a 'dice contest', please?

2. When Gary ran his game for me, he used the same 3d6 probabilities.

3b. Not particularly; I'm dyslexic and ambidextrous...

Thank you for the answers, Uncle! It is why I ask questions. I learn things.

1. "Dice contest" is just a term I applied to the "I roll, you roll, compare results to see who 'wins'" mechanic you describe. "Loosy-goosy, hand-wavy method" is rather denigrating, and it can be difficult for the loquaciously lax.

2. Very interesting. Would he also conduct the game as "I roll, you roll, who's result is higher?" or did he tend to just have the player roll 3d6 and he had a target number in mind (so basically rolling against a table of numbers, but the table was in his head)?

3b. Man. I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

I'll check out the videos (I have watched one or two, but it was difficult to ascertain the "system" from the video. I'll just watch some more. )

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2017 17:33:15 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Jun 21, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

Well said! If you want serious there are plenty of drama games to choose from, the original games are not them.

The drama has not been in the games, it's been in the players and their approach to gaming - and how they treat people with different viewpoints then their own.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2017 17:43:04 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Jun 21, 2017 16:53:58 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

It is indeed very fast paced, which was how Dave liked it; faster play meant for more of what I think is called 'immersion' these days, and also increased what we used to call 'the fog of war'.

I like very fast paced too and for exactly the same reasons.

Jun 21, 2017 16:53:58 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

3b. Not particularly; I'm dyslexic and ambidextrous, so typing really tires me out. If I may, I'd suggest watching the video of an underworld adventure that I ran and which is up on my YouTube channel; there are four half-hour segments from the game, and you can get a lot of examples of how this all works from them - it'll be easier on you, too!

This is great!

Chirine ba Kal

Tekumel Braunstein Game, 2013 Part 1, 2, and 3.

Chirine's Workbench Podcast four episodes.

Miniatures Game, four episodes.

Remembering M.A.R. Barker 1929-2012 - A memorial slideshow created by Janet L. Moe to celebrate the life of Professor M.A.R. Barker, creator of the world of Tékumel and a scholar of South East Asian languages

Post more please if you have them.

Thank you for the link; I'm not very 'Internet-savvy'.

What's currently up on the Youtube channel is what we have. We've been thinking about doing more, but I's like to make sure that there would be interest in them before we invest the time and effort in them.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2017 19:17:29 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Jun 21, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

Oh my, sorry if I riled you.

It is indeed a shame. I can think of two personal examples right off the bat. In college, I was invited to what I was told was a "really awesome game of D&D". The referee's maps and the campaign description were impressive; I was excited to dive right in. However, our very first encounter was with a small group of bandits along the trail to the dungeon - it took the entire session (about 4 hours) to just resolve the combat. Ugh. Years later, while in the Navy, I was invited to a game run by a barracks-mate of mine. The description of the game world was very gonzo, so I thought, "OK, I'm down with some light-hearted fun!" As the first game progressed, the DM was all business and extremely rail-roading (we ran into a giant of some sort right off the bat; it seemed more planned by the DM and less a matter of a group of stupid players making the wrong choice). Needless to say, I politely dropped out of both games immediately.

Jun 21, 2017 16:53:58 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

1. What is a 'dice contest', please?

2. When Gary ran his game for me, he used the same 3d6 probabilities.

3b. Not particularly; I'm dyslexic and ambidextrous...

Thank you for the answers, Uncle! It is why I ask questions. I learn things.

1. "Dice contest" is just a term I applied to the "I roll, you roll, compare results to see who 'wins'" mechanic you describe. "Loosy-goosy, hand-wavy method" is rather denigrating, and it can be difficult for the loquaciously lax.

2. Very interesting. Would he also conduct the game as "I roll, you roll, who's result is higher?" or did he tend to just have the player roll 3d6 and he had a target number in mind (so basically rolling against a table of numbers, but the table was in his head)?

3b. Man. I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous.

I'll check out the videos (I have watched one or two, but it was difficult to ascertain the "system" from the video. I'll just watch some more. )

No offense on your part; it's an attitude that I've had rammed down my throat by 'Serious Gamers' since the early 1990s, and it's been a real impediment to the growth of the hobby.

Happy to have you ask, too!

1. Cool! Thank you! I've seen a number of games where people seem to have big pools of dice that they roll, and then choose what dice they will use in a particular circumstance, which is why I asked.

2. Phil would the former, Dave the latter. So, Yes, I'd say so. I do the same thing, for that matter.

3b.   It does help with my model building, but it does make typing pretty tiring. I'm still amazed that I've managed to crank out 128,000 words in my book about gaming with Phil.

Understood. It'll take a while; once you play that way for a bit, it becomes pretty straightforward. I tend to assume that it's easy, 'cause I tend to forget how long I've been doing it that way...

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2017 0:27:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Jun 21, 2017 17:33:15 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Well said! If you want serious there are plenty of drama games to choose from, the original games are not them.

The drama has not been in the games, it's been in the players and their approach to gaming - and how they treat people with different viewpoints then their own.

What I meant was that their are games (and large groups) that cater to people that think like that.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Jun 20, 2017 20:56:42 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Role-playing is serious business - IT IS A COMPLICATED ART-FORM! Joviality is for plebeians and heretics! If there are no rules governing levity, it is not allowed. [/facetiousness]

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

"Spam gagged, and his arm went limp. 'Die,' he suggested."

[foxroe]

Jun 22, 2017 10:10:44 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

Jun 21, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm really, really glad that you said that this was a joke, other wise I'd be out of here in an instant. This attitude has poisoned more games and gaming then anything else I've ever seen, and it's why I try to stay in my game room.

"Spam gagged, and his arm went limp. 'Die,' he suggested."

"Frito took a large loaf of raisin bread and crammed it into Goddam's mouth..."

[foxroe]

Jun 22, 2017 19:22:24 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Jun 22, 2017 10:10:44 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

"Spam gagged, and his arm went limp. 'Die,' he suggested."

"Frito took a large loaf of raisin bread and crammed it into Goddam's mouth..."

Unproductive post, but just wanted to take a moment and say that I really appreciate that you and Michael post here. I miss the "olden days" and I really enjoy hearing the stories and your take on things.

...So, when will those books be ready guys?

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2017 2:09:05 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Jun 22, 2017 19:22:24 GMT -6 foxroe said:

"Frito took a large loaf of raisin bread and crammed it into Goddam's mouth..."

Unproductive post, but just wanted to take a moment and say that I really appreciate that you and Michael post here. I miss the "olden days" and I really enjoy hearing the stories and your take on things.

...So, when will those books be ready guys?

I'm hoping to be done this fall. I'm at 128,000, and expecting to go to about 300,000 over the six volumes of the thing. My plan is ti have it up on the web as a free to read object; I have no commercial needs or desires!

[MormonYoYoMan]

Jun 25, 2017 5:05:56 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm at 128,000

And I thought I was old!

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2017 7:11:28 GMT -6 MormonYoYoMan said:

Jun 25, 2017 5:05:56 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm at 128,000

And I thought I was old!

Sorry; I should have been more clear. That's the word count for the book, not my age; after forty+ years in this hobby, I lose track.

[MormonYoYoMan]

My apologies. Just old Grandpa Chet being a smart aleck again.

[18 Spears]

Jun 25, 2017 9:33:16 GMT -6 MormonYoYoMan said:

My apologies. Just old Grandpa Chet being a smart aleck again.

good you'uns pointed it out since it is so out of caracter

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2017 5:05:56 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

Jun 25, 2017 2:09:05 GMT -6 foxroe said:

Unproductive post, but just wanted to take a moment and say that I really appreciate that you and Michael post here. I miss the "olden days" and I really enjoy hearing the stories and your take on things.

...So, when will those books be ready guys?

I'm hoping to be done this fall. I'm at 128,000, and expecting to go to about 300,000 over the six volumes of the thing. My plan is ti have it up on the web as a free to read object; I have no commercial needs or desires!

That is mighty good of you! I for one would not mind if you did charge for it.

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2017 15:32:30 GMT -6 @theperilousdreamer said:

Jun 25, 2017 5:05:56 GMT -6 chirinebakal said:

I'm hoping to be done this fall. I'm at 128,000, and expecting to go to about 300,000 over the six volumes of the thing. My plan is ti have it up on the web as a free to read object; I have no commercial needs or desires!

That is mighty good of you! I for one would not mind if you did charge for it.

Thank you for the kind thought; we looked very hard at this, during the time when a fan wanted to do the book as a set of hardcovers, but the overhead costs of doing this are simply too expensive to even consider doing it. Given that I do not expect to be the next J. K. Rowling, as some people who have wanted to get on the commercial bandwagon have said, and that I expect that very (very) few people will want to read it, it's simply uneconomical or cost-effective to do anything other then simply give it away. This is a book about a bunch of friends sitting around a rickety Ping Pong ball table in a basement having some fun, not "a significant historical document" or "a mass-market best-seller with tremendous commercial potential".

As for how I view the thing, the people who call themselves 'Tekumel Fans' on the Tekumel Yahoo group didn't like the drafts I sent them - TL:DR was one reaction, for example; "Useless, as there are no rules given" was another. On the other hand, people who call themselves 'Fans of Tekumel' in other forums who have slogged through the current draft all really like it, and have given me very good reviews of what they've read. And more then a few heavy-handed hints to get the thing finished, too!

I started writing this for my daughters, as they wanted to know what their dad and his friends had been getting up to all those years ago, and I'm finishing it for my grandkids. If anyone else wants to come along for the ride, as I chronicle our adventures, they are certainly welcome to; my goal for this project, as it has been since the beginning, is to tell people about the wonder and excitement we had playing with Phil in his creation. Nothing more, and nothing less; I never had any interest in doing it for the money, just as I had no interest in doing what I've done for Tekumel over the past four decades. (And anybody who tells you differently is, as Gronan would say, "a booger-eating moron".)

[Deleted]

Thanks for the info, looks like you have separated the real fans from the fake fans. Doing it for your daughters and your grandkids is the best reason of all to do it. My hat is off to you!

[foxroe]

Another possibility (that you may have already considered) is to put it up on Lulu.com. You could sell paper/hard-back copies at cost and offer the PDF for free. It would at least give some folks some options (I for one prefer physical books*) and it shouldn't be anymore of a headache for you to set it up. Anyway, just a thought.

*( Although, modern technology has spoiled me - I like having a physical copy and a PDF/ebook. )

[terje]

I'm very interested in reading your chronicle chirinebakal! And as one who really prefers printed text before reading on a screen I very much agree with foxroe's suggestion to use a pod-service as Lulu.

[Gene M.]

Count me as very interested to read it! I think using a print-on-demand service such as Lulu is a good idea as well.