|
Post by jmccann on Jan 26, 2014 22:25:23 GMT -6
I got my copy from Amazon a few days ago. I paid $85 and change so I am glad I waited. I have not had a chance to really examine it but my initial reaction is that I am going to recycle a bunch of the cardboard and perhaps keep the art for a dm screen or something. I'd rather have more space for additional material than cardboard and air. I like the idea of lining the lid with felt and rolling dice in there so I'll think about that. The dice are hideous.
Still, I am glad it is back in print. I hope the price comes down and perhaps that the books can be bought separately. If WOTC would ditch the expensive wood box, ugly dice and sell the supplements separately it would support gaming as opposed to the nostalgia and collector market that the current set seems to be aimed at.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Jan 11, 2014 14:25:11 GMT -6
Yep. That is a pretty big clue I also missed.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Jan 11, 2014 14:24:42 GMT -6
Page 20; ATTACK MATRIX II; Ambiguity. Attack Matrix II is ambiguous with regard to 3, 4 and 6 HD monsters. Just wondering what people do about this. Here's the table heading in question: Armor 20-Sided Dice Score to Hit by Monster’s Dice # Class Description Dice Up to 1 1 + 1 2-3 3-4 4-6 6-8 9-10 11&1 (And the "11&1" should be "11 & +" as noted in Ways' original post.) Note that this table's heading is reprinted with the same errors in WotC's 2013 OD&D Reprint. Based on the beginning and the end of the table's heading, if I were going to actually use this, I would go in this progression: Up to 1 1 + 1 2-3 4-5 6-7 8-9 10-11 above 11 (i.e. 11+ ) My questions: 1. Does anyone know of an "official" correction? 2. What do you do in your game? Thanks, Gonyaulax I apply the rule that in these cases, 2-3 in one column followed by 3-4 in the next indicates that 2 HD, 2 HD +1, 2 HD + 2 etc. fall into the first column. Then 3 HD, 3 HD + 1... go into the next column. I think I read this in a Q&A, but I don't recall if it was official or not.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Jan 11, 2014 0:15:56 GMT -6
I read this blog post before. I think it's a prank or April fools thing. Ouch. I should have read the comments.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Jan 10, 2014 22:58:44 GMT -6
I have just found an interesting blog post regarding a possible early wargame campaign with elements that seem to prefigure some features of RPGs and LARP at Vintage Wargaming: vintagewargaming.blogspot.com/2010/04/secret-war-gaming-history-of-literary.htmlI have never read of anything like this before. Details at the blog are a bit sketchy but this seems intriguing. Has anyone here ever read about this before?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Jan 6, 2014 21:40:25 GMT -6
I suspect WOTC is engaging in price discrimination. They are extracting a premium from the enthusiasts who will pay top $ from their LGS but want to get the traffic and sales numbers that the big online retailers will drive -eventually, after they have extracted higher revenues from those willing to pay the nearly 50% markup at the LGS. It could also be that they would like to supply the big online retailers now but don't have the inventory. Obviously given the choice WOTC will supply the LGS orders first in either case.
This is all speculation, I have no knowledge of the arrangement WOTC has made with any retailer.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Dec 17, 2013 20:25:34 GMT -6
On those early wilderness adventures, how often did you fight numbers of monsters on the high end of the encounter sizes given (30-300 men for instance)? How many PCs and hirelings/ henchmen/ men-at-arms did the player parties have? The descriptions many of the monsters' lairs read very much like wargame scenario set ups, especially with hundreds of creatures appearing. How often were these wargame-like scenarios played compared to what we think of as role-playing now? Occasionally. We'd have 4-6 PCs plus henchmen to number 12 to 15. Outdoors were dangerous. I'm not entirely sure what your last question means. If we went out into the wilderness looking for lairs, we had more of a chance of finding lairs, as opposed to town or dungeon adventures. Thanks for your response. What I mean for the second part of my question is this: many of the random encounters involve hundreds of creatures. For instance, I generated an encounter with bandits with 56 light foot, 35 short bow, 35 light horse, 28 med horse, and a bunch of higher level figures, and this is lower than average for bandits. This sounds more like a wargame scenario than an RPG encounter. Did you ever play an encounter with such a large number of creatures as wargames, or would you only roleplay such an encounter?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Dec 15, 2013 2:06:39 GMT -6
On those early wilderness adventures, how often did you fight numbers of monsters on the high end of the encounter sizes given (30-300 men for instance)? How many PCs and hirelings/ henchmen/ men-at-arms did the player parties have?
The descriptions many of the monsters' lairs read very much like wargame scenario set ups, especially with hundreds of creatures appearing. How often were these wargame-like scenarios played compared to what we think of as role-playing now?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Dec 1, 2013 17:35:29 GMT -6
Front page is up for me but the forum is giving a SQL error.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Nov 30, 2013 21:30:13 GMT -6
See Dragon Magazine #257 for a good (and long—20 pages!) write-up on how to play D&D in this setting. The article is written for AD&D 2nd Edition, but it's generic enough to work with any version. See also Dragon Magazine #263 where the same author presents the Anglo-Saxon pantheon in the format of Legends and Lore. Thanks for the pointers I'll take a look at those.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Nov 30, 2013 12:53:06 GMT -6
I finally finished this. It took a long time because I ended up getting numerous books on Anglo Saxon language and history. The book is very interesting. In some ways the AS period British Isles would make a great OD&D campaign but there are some drawbacks too.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Nov 8, 2013 11:13:46 GMT -6
Looks very interesting, I just bought the eversion.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Oct 31, 2013 0:06:05 GMT -6
Interesting find. I have heard of this but never checked it out before. I'll definitely be downloading some of this.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Oct 30, 2013 21:46:59 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Oct 30, 2013 19:37:20 GMT -6
CHAINMAIL does have an after battle system of recovery. Basically chainmail+FFC = fantasy war game campaign. What rules in Chainmail are you referring to?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Oct 29, 2013 6:05:20 GMT -6
Chainmail has rules covering historical mass battles (each miniature figure represents 10 or 20 figures) as well as 1 to 1 rules covering historical combat. You could play a campaign based on history, alternate history or based on a made up world using the historical rules only. A campaign like this would not necessarily be much like a RPG campaign at all, although elements of role-play could be present if the players were interested. There are rules for army commanders, so you could have figures that the players might invest with personality and identify with even in a large scale game, and using the man-to-man rules players could track individual characters through many battles. Using points or a simple economic model the evolution of the armies over time could be represented which would have some similarity to the barony-management aspect of OD&D. There is also a fantasy supplement. Using these rules, a Chainmail campaign would have more similarity to a typical RPG campaign than a historical campaign as I just described. There is a variety of monsters and other combatants. There are is a spell list for wizards. With Hero/ Superhero for the fighter and 5 ranks of Wizard, there is a set of levels that a player's character could progress through. So a lot of elements of D&D are present in a fantasy supplement campaign. Chainmail does not come with rules for running a campaign though. It has rules for fighting battles, but not for much of what happens before and after the battles. You will have to come up with your own mechanisms for doing this. An interesting account by Gary Gygax of an early Chainmail battle is here: vintagewargaming.blogspot.com/2012/06/battle-of-brown-hills-early-chainmail.htmlIt predates OD&D by several years but has a lot of features recognizable to a player of D&D.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 21, 2013 9:35:38 GMT -6
In the same vein as those two. Multi player fun with plenty of backstabbing opportunities. A bit more interesting timeframe historically also. A lot less vague than Dip. Plus its fun, as the Pope, to excommunicate people. Its been decades since I've seen the game let alone play. I just have more memories of fun times in high school of Machiavelli than Dip and Kingmaker. Just a gut reaction more than anything else. James, I will make sure you get an invite when we get a group together for this game. Rich (who you met at Dragonflight) has some buddies that are also interested in playing it Sounds good, I'd be interested.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 20, 2013 21:09:05 GMT -6
Very jealous of scaleydemon. Machiavelli is one of my favorite multi player games of all time, even more fun than Diplomacy or Kingmaker for me. I've played Dip and Kingmaker but I'm not familiar with Machiavelli. What is it like?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 15, 2013 21:47:22 GMT -6
I misread the table - you're right, the MU overtakes the fighter, and equals the cleric, when the MU reaches level 7.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 15, 2013 17:44:53 GMT -6
Sorry, I assumed we were talking about 9th level. But regardless of where name level occurs, it's still magic-users that rocket through the upper levels while the clerics and fighters require relatively larger sums of XP to reach the same levels. It depends on what tables you adopt for the higher levels since OD&D doesn't specify. An MU won't surpass a fighter in level given equal experience until level 8. So yes, after level 8 MUs advance more rapidly than fighters. With the divine assistance a Patriarch (or EHP) receives, it seems that the cleric is intended to have the easiest time of developing a stronghold, since name level is achieved with just 100000 XP and building costs are halved.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 15, 2013 11:47:50 GMT -6
Somewhat off topic (my apologies) but I thought it worthwhile remarking on the relative advancement of the classes: Clerics rocket through the levels while M-Us reach levels most slowly. We often see this stated, but by the book magic-users achieve name level fastest, requiring about one-half as much XP as do clerics, and about two-fifths as much XP as do fighters. Below level 6 the XP requirements between the classes differ by a few thousand XP either way (yes, a cleric will reach 5th level while a m-u is still 4th level). For level 7 fighters require the most (64k), while clerics and magic-users each require 50k. For level 8 fighters require the most (120k), then clerics (100k), then m-us (75k). For name level fighters require the most (240k), then clerics (presumably 200k), then m-us (100k). Huh? I don't know where you are getting those figures. M&M, page 16 has clerics at name level at level 8, 100000 XP, fighting-men at name level at level 9, 240000 XP and MUs get their name level at level 11 with 300000 XP. I have 5th and 6th printings and they agree. What printing are you looking at?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 11, 2013 20:57:16 GMT -6
It appears that some (although not all - talysman disagrees with me but I think understands what I am saying) people on this thread do not understand what I am saying. With the single exception pointed out by talysman, experience points do NOT determine game mechanisms. XP and character class combine to determine a level (plus some state history in the case of multi-class characters) - and this single exception is eliminated in AD&D. It is LEVEL, a function of class and XP, that determines nearly all mechanisms that vary with experience - not XP considered alone. Given this it would be unusual for the so-called endgame to kick in at an XP threshold as opposed to a level threshold which we see.
So with that out of the way, I think the reason is that Gygax (perhaps Arneson as well? I don't know how closely Gygax's class progression tables followed Arneson's) deliberately did not want raw XP to be a highly influential figure, rather XP is modulated by the class/ state history of the character. Clerics rocket through the levels while M-Us reach levels most slowly. But there are other interesting effects. Take ATTACK MATRIX 1: MEN ATTACKING on p. 19 (6th ed.) of M&M, we see fighters advance to a more effective matrix column every 3 levels, making up somewhat for the slower level progression compared to clerics, and M-Us once again get the rawest deal on this table.
I think game considerations likely drive this. He wanted the classes to have a certain relationship with each other, and tying game mechanisms to level as opposed to raw XP gives a way to set up these relationships.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 11, 2013 9:43:04 GMT -6
For painting these figures, I would first wash them in soapy water and rinse them VERY thoroughly. Then go to a hobby store that does radio control model cars. There are acrylic paints for flexible plastic (I think Tamiya is one brand.) I'd use those. Oh yeah, I forgot about washing them.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 9, 2013 0:01:05 GMT -6
I have written a blog post on using plastic figures at consimnet.blogspot.com/ including the Airfix Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham figures. Short version: I like the RH figs, don't like the SoN figs. I coated them w/ white glue before priming. They are very light so glue washers to the bottoms. I never did find the Fusion plastic primer, but I hope the acrylic gesso I used will work. I won't know for years perhaps.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 8, 2013 20:50:38 GMT -6
I think the answer is that XP have no real utility other than to reach some level. There are no mechanisms that kick in when you reach a multiple of 1,000 or 10,000 or whatever. All of the power acquisition and game balance tuning is focused on levels - demi-humans cap out at a level, abilities are granted when levels are achieved, so the "graduation" to "end-game" (is this an OSR term or does it occur in the mid to late 70s?) or stronghold/ barony focus is also level based. There are no *powers* keyed to xp instead of level, but there is definitely a mechanism linked to xp instead of level: support costs. I thought that someone might dig up some trifling mechanism keyed to XP. The point that a PC's XP by itself is of little importance still stands. I have just skimmed through 1e AD&D PHB and DMG and have not found any mechanisms there based on XP as opposed to level there either. I think it is a sound answer to the original question that XP itself, as opposed to level which is derived from XP, is just not a very important value for a PC.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 8, 2013 18:36:23 GMT -6
I like cards to some extent but I am not a fan of newfangled (since the 90s or so) card-driven designs. I don't mind the Totaller Krieg mechanisms where resources are allocated by card draw even though they are very intrusive and drive player strategy in a major way, but I don't like the sound of We the People (I have never played it but the descriptions I have read do not make me want to use it).
I like a pretty fine grained sequence of play. I think Squad Leader and ASL work pretty well with all of the phases in the sequence of play.
I like strong representations of intel, command and control and fog of war to mess up players perfect knowledge and control.
I don't think simultaneous movement works well, just because it ends up being too much work.
Random events are good, but they can cause a lot of bitterness if they affect the outcome of a game (and if they can't, what's the point?).
I like multi-player games where there is a sense of chaos and more going on than anyone can really grasp (just like real life).
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 8, 2013 18:24:48 GMT -6
In other words: why not have a magic XP number and say "when you hit this you retire, no matter what your level"? I think the answer is that XP have no real utility other than to reach some level. There are no mechanisms that kick in when you reach a multiple of 1,000 or 10,000 or whatever. All of the power acquisition and game balance tuning is focused on levels - demi-humans cap out at a level, abilities are granted when levels are achieved, so the "graduation" to "end-game" (is this an OSR term or does it occur in the mid to late 70s?) or stronghold/ barony focus is also level based.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 5, 2013 19:35:11 GMT -6
I kind of said "meh" to the AH and SPI RPG offerings back then. Is there anything interesting enough for me to seek this out?
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 5, 2013 19:32:20 GMT -6
From these descriptions it sounds like this will go to the "buy ebook if cheap" list rather than the "buy it! read it!" list.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Sept 4, 2013 20:47:56 GMT -6
Great, that is just the sort of thing I am looking for. Thanks!
|
|