benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 10, 2009 23:31:43 GMT -6
I believe people who are actively gaming can get away with not playtesting something thoroughly on an occasion or two, but if you are at the point where you haven't gamed for a long time, your writing will suffer as you lose perspective from what is actually happening at the table. I agree. It's often not what people might consider matters in an armchair-designer fashion either. What is often discarded in actual RPG design, for instance, is the outlooks on the game and personalities of the gamers involved around a particular gaming table. A game designer often just discards these specificities of psychological and sociological makeups of gaming groups for an abstract idea of what the "average group" would do, and how the adventure would work if every player played fairly, all had the same intellectual capacities, an equal willingness to work together and so on, so forth. We all know it doesn't work that way in practice. Some of the best adventures, IMO, point out the specificities of the group in mind when designing the adventure to the would-be DM, so that the DM him/herself can adapt the adventure to his/her own game table and players involved. If you can convey a clear idea of the optimal party makeup to run the adventure, and manage to make the DM understand how to adapt the material to any particular group composition from there, chances are, you've got a winner module on your hands.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 10, 2009 22:50:22 GMT -6
I'm surprised to see B/X behind OD&D on BAB.
One important thing to add to this analysis is the relative importance of magic weapons from one game to the next. In OD&D Magic Swords +1 are regarded as much more special items than they would be in a 3.x game. This affects the overall Attack Bonus output a fighter would have in the game.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 10, 2009 22:48:00 GMT -6
It does look interesting.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 10, 2009 13:26:11 GMT -6
Well, the thing for me is that I really want to give it an honest shot even though the design concept appears to be 180 o apart from my usual OD&D/C&C style of play. Do try it. I'm giving it a chance right now, and so far, I come to the conclusion that it is a 180 in game play, and not the type of game I want to play again. I'm still trying though, through the course of the current adventure, to see if I can overcome those feelings. *shrug* We'll see.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 7, 2009 23:14:03 GMT -6
They sound like Uruk Hai but on the intelligence and magical side rather than brute force and endurance side-of-things, to me.
Did Dave ever talk about his JRRT inspiration for the Blackmoor campaign?
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 4, 2009 1:13:26 GMT -6
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 3, 2009 19:45:34 GMT -6
The best (and most expensive) is to track down a copy of First Fantasy Campaign, which was Dave's campaign published by Judges Guild in the 1970's. This too. Hard to find, though. I've tried multiple times. Couldn't manage to find a copy yet.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 3, 2009 19:44:08 GMT -6
I've got the 3rd edition sourcebook and an eBook copy of OD&D supplement II. Supp. II doesn't present setting information. The 3rd edition does. Yet, I had the feeling that something was missing. I asked around for information, and the consensus feedback I got was that the 3rd edition Blackmoor campaign book is actually a very vanilla version of the setting that leaves out some of what made Blackmoor what it is. When I asked how I could get the parts missing, they told me to go for the DA series of modules. So my advice would be, assuming you want to run Blackmoor with OD&D or S&W, to get a copy of the 3rd ed campaign sourcebook (or 4th ed, as I understand the systemless information is mostly the same), a copy of Supp. II, and the DA series of D&D modules.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 3, 2009 17:24:08 GMT -6
This is indeed some good stuff. Thanks a bunch, delve!
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 3, 2009 17:08:31 GMT -6
I agree. The problem (potentially) is not with DMs who have the experience and just discard the whole thing in the rulebook, but what about the DMs who learn how to run the game from these books? You know, the ones 4e is supposed to bring to this hobby for the first time. The DM I play with right now is applying these recommendations as you see them appear here pretty much by the letter.
I'm not really impressed so far. Sorry to say.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 3, 2009 15:57:47 GMT -6
Though I am very critical of the game system and its design concepts and intentions, I am giving 4e a chance right now, since I am playing into a Play-by-Post 4e Eberron game at the moment. My thoughts at the moment confirm what I do not like about it.
I think this iteration of the game is still (as compared to 3e) way too nitpicky and needlessly complicated for a fantasy role-playing game. It is still a "role-playing game", however. Not a boardgame or just a minis tactical game.
What surprises me at the moment is how bad the "on to the fun" philosophy can get with a 4e game. Travel has already been skipped completely in the game multiple times, to get directly to encounters the DM feel are "worth playing".
You know the part in the 4e DMG that tells new DMs to fast-forward the discussion with the town guards because it's "not fun"*? That's exactly what I'm playing right now, and I don't like it one bit. It kills creativity at the game, kills 90% of the cool bits that come from the unexpected at the game table, uber-railroads the players, and so on.
On the plus column, I must say the game just started a few days ago. I very well might be having a knee-jerk reaction, and the rest of the game might end up being a lot more enjoyable for me. So I'm staying, not criticizing anything, and I'll see how the rest of the game turns out nonetheless.
* 4e DMG, p.105: "Fun is one element you shouldn't vary. Every encounter in an adventure should be fun. As much as possible, fast-forward through parts of an adventure that aren't fun. An encounter with two guards at the city gate isn't fun. Tell the players they get through the gate without much trouble and move on to the fun. Niggling details of food supplies and encumbrance usually aren't fun, so don't sweat them, and let the players get to the adventure and on to the fun. Long treks through endless corridors in the ancient dwarven stronghold beneath the mountains aren't fun. Move the PCs quickly from encounter to encounter, and on to the fun."
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 2, 2009 12:51:35 GMT -6
Good stuff!
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 2, 2009 10:02:26 GMT -6
Supplement IV and Swords & Spells. Already got Carcosa (hey, Geoffrey *waves* ). Soon a collection, and world domination tomorrow!
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 2, 2009 0:58:07 GMT -6
One step closer from the complete collection! I just won Blackmoor today! :-)
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 1, 2009 22:22:15 GMT -6
I've already found one that really inspired me: Cry of the Gravegod.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 1, 2009 22:16:07 GMT -6
Thanks for the download, delve.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Aug 1, 2009 12:36:55 GMT -6
WOW. This thread is cool.
Exalt for you, Jay. Love the Forbidden Lore download! Especially now that I have a physical copy of Chainmail (wink).
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 31, 2009 17:17:04 GMT -6
Lame indeed.
That seems to be a clear example of a DM who just didn't think his wizard's lair's layout through and just tried to get away from the prospect of giving tons of spells to the mage in the group.
I agree with the wider point as well. Arguments over alignment are very often symptoms of issues of plain bad gaming instead (from DM, players or both).
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 31, 2009 17:09:02 GMT -6
(reposting this from K&KA) I would have a harder time with the DM rolling the dice for me all the time (note that sometimes I think it's okay, though). After all, in a game like AD&D, a lot of mechanical stuff is happening behind the DM's screen. If the DM has the stats of the character on his side as well, that would just be an extension of that original concept, to me. Not rolling the dice myself, however, is like changing the game's nature and make it more into a "shared storytelling" experience, which I do not believe makes for a good RPG (or an RPG at all, for that matter).
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 23:13:46 GMT -6
It does and it is why I am coming here more and more. Amen to that, brother!
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 19:17:46 GMT -6
This thread is pure "win". Seriously cool.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 17:08:55 GMT -6
Same thing with the PDFs here! hehe. The safe idea is a good one. Small ones are relatively cheap these days.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 16:57:45 GMT -6
That is really cool DuBeers. You must be ecstatic.
I'm missing Supplement II, IV and Swords & Spells, personally. But I will do the same, one day!
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 14:18:32 GMT -6
Now give me a good reason not to do so. Don't muddy it up with the burdensome post LBB interpretations It really comes down to what you think is appropriate as a role-playing tool for your and your players. If you feel alignment (or any component thereof) adds something to game play, use it. If you feel it doesn't, just throw it overboard and be done with it. Why keep rules you don't use or don't like, after all? I like alignment, and my players do as well. I treat it as a role-playing tool, not a hardcore rule, and as DM, my calls override the letter of the rulebook. I've been using both law-chaos and good-evil parts of the alignment in my OD&D/S&W game, though I'm increasingly tempted to get rid of the good/evil part to promote a more Swords & Sorcery, morally ambiguous, type of game reminiscent of Moorcock's cosmic struggle between the two evils of ultimate Law and ultimate Chaos. My wife likes a more Tolkienian approach, with clear-cut good guys, bad guys, and heroic deeds to be done, which explains why so far I have kept the dual-axes approach in the game. Anyway. Maybe I'm just wandering off-topic here. My bottom-line is that it's really about the way you understand the role of alignment in your game, and what you feel it accomplishes by tweaking it to your needs.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 14:08:06 GMT -6
Not gonna. That's why I said "agree to disagree" . I don't want to be a party to these boards turning unfriendly, and I'm sure benoist doesn't, either. Absolutely! We do agree to agree to disagree. ... If that makes sense.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 30, 2009 10:42:10 GMT -6
It's similar to Christopher Tolkien keeping an iron grip on the Middle Earth properties, which his father wanted to be a living, breathing, shared mythology. Gail has torn Gary's licenses away from the very people Gary himself said he wanted to have them. I disagree. I think we do not know what EGG thought about these legal matters, nor what he did share about his thoughts with Gail, specifically. I think we shouldn't judge based on this or that post or article of Gary's, because much of what he wrote depended on the specificities of the contexts in which they were put together (like the "if you're not playing by these rules, you're not playing AD&D(TM)" statement, for instance). On the topic of JRR Tolkien, I am absolutely convinced that Christopher Tolkien is acting completely in tune with his father's wishes. Remember that JRRT was extremely critical of other interpretations of his work, and didn't like departures from his materials in the slightest. Middle-earth had an inner coherence and integrity JRR wanted to preserve. That was, actually, the purpose of his life's work, when you think about it. I think it's factually inaccurate to portray Christopher Tolkien as someone who doesn't understand his father's last wishes or substitutes them for a more personal agenda. We may be disappointed as fans of EGG, but let's not go after Gail on this one. That's the last thing he would have wanted.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 29, 2009 22:38:31 GMT -6
These look good. Awesome work, Malcadon. (edit) here, get an Exalt for your trouble!
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 29, 2009 19:32:10 GMT -6
I have the three core books of LA and the Essentials boxed set. I really like this game.
I can't help but think that CZ receiving no further development, at least for a while, is an opportunity in disguise since it makes us imagine the heck out of it.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 28, 2009 10:49:46 GMT -6
Well, I don't see the dichotomy myself, because I have nothing against such things as an houseruled skill system, so I don't feel I really can answer the question without thinking in terms of stereotypes.
I think, however, that the reason why some people don't like bolted-on skills systems is because they weren't there back in the day. It's something that, moreover, these people attached in their minds to later designs (like Stormbringer etc), and representative of a "later school". So it's not really "authentic old school" to them.
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jul 28, 2009 0:50:46 GMT -6
Crossing my fingers for you!
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