Other Demons

[librarylass]

Demons are supposed to be creatures of fundamental chaos, right? So why should they always look alike? (I think there may have been some useful tables along these lines in the Dungeon Master's Guide, in fact.) Nonetheless, they too often do. The type Is all look like vulture men, the type VIs are all balrogs, et cetera. Why should that be so, I ask you? And to that end I've started a crowdsourcing project on my blog... unfortunately it's been a little slow, and after more than a week I still haven't quite filled up my Type I list. So I thought you folks might like to take a look and maybe offer up a variant of your own.



Here's type I, I'll put up the link to the rest as I post them.

Update: Type II is here!

[Vile Traveller]

I agree entirely! I've got demons in BLUEHOLME™ Compleat, because they're mentioned somewhere or other in the Blue Book, IIRC (it's late and I'm still in the office and my memory isn't what it used to be). Basically they are random creatures generated on a set of tables based on various characteristics of the demons from the supplements. No two will ever be alike.

[scottenkainen]

Can I plug here too? Hideouts & Hoodlums Supplement III had stats for "real world" demons -- Goetic demons and ones from Indian folklore -- you could use to further shake things up in the Abyss...

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

[Porphyre]

You might try talysman's "Infernal neighbours" series on his blog

[Malcadon]

One of the best monsters that reflect the chaotic nature of demons are the Hoardlings (Hordes of Hades) from the MMII. Everything about their nature is random and chaotic, and you do not encounter one type of Hoardling, but many unique types. The rules are content with making them "common on the Planes of Hades", but I would rather have them common all thought Hades, and out to to Limbo, crossing five or so planes, so they can be common sort of cannon fodder for all the lower planes!

Hell, I would rather apply random appearances and stats to most other monsters — especially abhorrent creatures like Beholders, Chimera, Manticores, Gorgon-type creatures, etc. Even Orcs have gone though strange variations — from the classical pig-men, to the more common green-skins, and even more obscure ones, like the cycloptic ones form the UK version of Holmes' Basic — to make random Orcs and other Goblinoids more appealing. It is a great way to keep the players on their feet, and to make monster encounters less bland over time.

The Metamorphica — an inexpensive system-neutral book of 650+ random superhero-like powers and Gamma World-like mutations — would be ideal for generating random creators, including demons (as noted in Appendix III with Swords of the Chaos Lords, and in Appendix IV with Demons). I highly recommend the book.

By the way, I love the list of random Type I demons. I hope to see more.

[krusader74]

Jan 29, 2014 10:14:38 GMT -6 scottenkainen said:

"real world" demons -- Goetic demons

This website lists the 72 demons of the goetia. It contains a description of each demon along with its sigil and illustration, e.g., #1 Bael:

He appeareth in divers shapes, sometimes like a Cat, sometimes like a Toad, and sometimes like a Man, and sometimes all these forms at once. He speaketh hoarsely.

Illo:

Sigil:

[librarylass]

Jan 29, 2014 6:20:12 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

I agree entirely! I've got demons in BLUEHOLME™ Compleat, because they're mentioned somewhere or other in the Blue Book, IIRC (it's late and I'm still in the office and my memory isn't what it used to be). Basically they are random creatures generated on a set of tables based on various characteristics of the demons from the supplements. No two will ever be alike.

Neat. When can we expect Blueholme Compleat anyway? I've been looking forward to that.

[librarylass]

Jan 29, 2014 10:14:38 GMT -6 scottenkainen said:

Can I plug here too? Hideouts & Hoodlums Supplement III had stats for "real world" demons -- Goetic demons and ones from Indian folklore -- you could use to further shake things up in the Abyss...

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

Also interesting! Though I'd be slightly more inclined to use the goetic set for devils, personally. They just strike me that way.

[librarylass]

Jan 31, 2014 2:10:30 GMT -6 Malcadon said:

One of the best monsters that reflect the chaotic nature of demons are the Hoardlings (Hordes of Hades) from the MMII. Everything about their nature is random and chaotic, and you do not encounter one type of Hoardling, but many unique types. The rules are content with making them "common on the Planes of Hades", but I would rather have them common all thought Hades, and out to to Limbo, crossing five or so planes, so they can be common sort of cannon fodder for all the lower planes!

Hell, I would rather apply random appearances and stats to most other monsters — especially abhorrent creatures like Beholders, Chimera, Manticores, Gorgon-type creatures, etc. Even Orcs have gone though strange variations — from the classical pig-men, to the more common green-skins, and even more obscure ones, like the cycloptic ones form the UK version of Holmes' Basic — to make random Orcs and other Goblinoids more appealing. It is a great way to keep the players on their feet, and to make monster encounters less bland over time.

The Metamorphica — an inexpensive system-neutral book of 650+ random superhero-like powers and Gamma World-like mutations — would be ideal for generating random creators, including demons (as noted in Appendix III with Swords of the Chaos Lords, and in Appendix IV with Demons). I highly recommend the book.

By the way, I love the list of random Type I demons. I hope to see more.

I'll have to look into those hordelings, then.





By the way-- those two blank spacces are there for a reason, I'm still looking for two more type I submissions before I start on type II.

[scottenkainen]

Feb 1, 2014 3:26:15 GMT -6 librarylass said:

Also interesting! Though I'd be slightly more inclined to use the goetic set for devils, personally. They just strike me that way.

I didn't distinguish between demons and devils, since that is an AD&D distinction.

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

[Malcadon]

Oops, I forgot to post links to the The Metamorphica PDF copy and hardcopy book.

Feb 1, 2014 3:26:46 GMT -6 librarylass said:

I'll have to look into those hordelings, then.

Yeah, it gives over a page worth of tables to how the look, and some features that can effect who they fight (claws, tentacles, etc.).

When I said that have them throughout the lower planes, I mean that I treat all the lower planes as one place: as a dark abyss, where demons are common but disorganized, and Devils (who I treat less monstrous then the official D&D, and more as fallen Angels) hold powerful kingdoms within a sea of chaos. Demon Lords/Princes are despots who rule by might alone, while Arch-Devils rule by loyalty and charisma. Most Demons see Devils as scheming cowards, while all Devils see Demons as mindless brutes who are beneath them. Devils breed and enslave demons to serve in their armies. I treat Graz'zt as a disgraced, fallen Devil trying to form his own kingdom with a court of Demons.

Based on a document by a guy called the "WebWarlock", I use a demon sub-race (who I made as a devil/demon hybrids) called the Lilim:

Half-Demon Types - Alu-Demon (half-human), Ardat-Lili (half genie/effreet/etc.)
Type I - Succubus, Incubus
Type II - Shedum (they look like female satyrs)
Type III - Empusae (they are hairy, with bat wings and a shadowed-out face with snake for head hair)
Type IV - Mormo (they have an upper-body of a hag with fur and bat wings, and a lower-body of a wolf)
Type V - Lamiae (lower body of a snake, just like the Noble Lemia from the Fiend Folio)
Type VI - Lititu (look like winged women with talons for feet)

Save for Type VIs (who are half-human/devils), they are not pure enough to be considered Devils as they are mostly demon blooded, nor seen as strong enough to be equals to demons of the same type. They mostly serve as consorts to powerful Demons, while Type VIs have the luxury of serving Arch-Devils. They come with different names like Abyzou, Lamashtu, Obyzouth, Byzou, Utukku, and so on, but I forgot where they were placed as I hardly used them. Mind you, the whole concept of the Lilim race was based on the offspring of Lilith (the first wife of Adam, who was created alongside him) and the fallen angel Lucifer.

Feb 1, 2014 3:26:46 GMT -6 librarylass said:

By the way-- those two blank spacces are there for a reason, I'm still looking for two more type I submissions before I start on type II.

Here are two I just made-up:

Khal'aght: Appears as a distorted, headless woman with gray or black bird wings for arms, talons for feet, a singe large eye at the navel, and a black beak at the crotch. Tends to lure victims by mimicking the cries of distressed women and child (usually the cries of past victims).
Vul'ku: Appears with a roughly humanoid torso, with a long-necked vulture heads, a scorpion tail with stinger, and long thin wing-like limbs ending in talons. The limbs bend backwards at the shoulders or hip, then bend forwards an the elbows or knees, and between the base of the limbs and the wrists or ankles are a set of fan-like patagium wings. It avoids frontal assaults, in favor or rear attacks form above. As it moves awkwardly on the ground, they always climb walls and ceilings, or fly around.

(as my spelling tends to be off, correct or adjust as you see fit)

[krusader74]

The Italian winemaker, Poggio Anima, has pictures of demons imprinted on their wine labels. In the US, these wines are imported by Vine Street Imports. I have tried these wines, and I highly recommend them. These wines give meaning to the phrases "demon alcohol" and "demon in a bottle." Tonight with dinner, I enjoyed two glasses of "Asdmodeus." Quoting verbatim from the VS Imports website about Asmodeus 2010:

In the Book of Tobias, an ancient Hebrew text, Asmodeus is the Demon of Lust. It is said that when Cain killed Abel, Adam and Eve separated for 130 years. During this time, Adam was tempted by Naamah and Lillith, two demons of prostitution. Asmodeus is the offspring of the relationship between Naamah and Adam.

RE: "Devil" vs "Demon", Wikipedia says:

While mainstream Judaism contains no overt concept of a devil, Christianity and Islam have variously regarded the Devil as a rebellious fallen angel that tempts humans to sin, if not commit evil deeds himself.

Since this narrative comes from a Jewish text, Asmodeus is therefore considered a demon (=Mazikin), and not a devil.

I noticed an interesting connection between demons and wine (or at least grape vines) in the Babylonian Talmud, Berachos 6a:

There are more Mazikin than people; they surround us like a furrow around a vine.

The description of the Lilith 2011 says:

According to Jewish folklore, Lilith was the first wife of Adam. She was banished from the Garden of Eden when she refused to make herself subservient to Adam’s sexual requests. When she was cast out of the Garden, she was made into a demon, and Adam was given a second wife, Eve, who was fashioned from his rib to ensure her obedience to her man. Where Adam was created from dust, Lilith was created from filth and sediment.

The description of the Belial 2011 says:

One of the four crown princes of hell. Roughly translated to 'without yoke' in Hebrew. It is believed that Belial is the purest definition of 'lawlessness.'

[librarylass]

Feb 2, 2014 6:52:48 GMT -6 Malcadon said:

Here are two I just made-up:

Khal'aght: Appears as a distorted, headless woman with gray or black bird wings for arms, talons for feet, a singe large eye at the navel, and a black beak at the crotch. Tends to lure victims by mimicking the cries of distressed women and child (usually the cries of past victims).
Vul'ku: Appears with a roughly humanoid torso, with a long-necked vulture heads, a scorpion tail with stinger, and long thin wing-like limbs ending in talons. The limbs bend backwards at the shoulders or hip, then bend forwards an the elbows or knees, and between the base of the limbs and the wrists or ankles are a set of fan-like patagium wings. It avoids frontal assaults, in favor or rear attacks form above. As it moves awkwardly on the ground, they always climb walls and ceilings, or fly around.

(as my spelling tends to be off, correct or adjust as you see fit)

Aces! I'll add those to the post right away! What a great surprise to come back from my hiatus to!

[librarylass]

Type II is here!