Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 2:29:12 GMT -6
Hi all, Quick qeustion, hoping not to nurture any flames by this: As you might have heard already from the different announcements at the Comeback Inn, The Last Fantasy Campaign is coming back, and I am considering a system change for the new format. - Or rather, a system jump back to a more Arnesonian model of playing. And so, I am scanning the several OD&D versions and variants. Can you help me out with it? I myself am *ghasp* a Rules Cyclopedia gamer, but even with the PDFs back on sale, I'd rather enjoy a system that is alive and keeps evolving, like, say, Labyrinth Lord. But what else is out there, and what would you recommend me? Can't make any promises that it will fit, but I want to make an informed decission.  Thank you very much, Rafe |
|
|
|
Post by makofan on Sept 25, 2013 7:06:14 GMT -6
I like Swords & Wizardy, as it is very OD&D-like, but with consistent mechanics. It is easy to customize, and there are buckets of extra classes out there - you could easily design Arnesonian-type classes, for example.
I have run S&W with both neophytes and veterans, with equally good success.
Labyrinth Lord is very good, and I think more complete than S&W. S&W is better for DM's that want to tinker
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 9:04:51 GMT -6
I am tempted to favor LL, because S&W seems a bit problematic. Also, I am not too keen to be connected to Frog God Games in any way,
as their reputation in the business frankly creeps me out a bit.
LotFP would probably also be a nice alternative, but that one's really a big derivation from OD&D, IIRC.
|
|
|
|
Post by snorri on Sept 25, 2013 10:06:38 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by scottenkainen on Sept 25, 2013 10:38:00 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by funkaoshi on Sept 25, 2013 11:15:59 GMT -6
I like Delving Deeper the best. It seems to working hardest to stay as close as possible to the OD&D rules, and it's presentation also mirrors the original rule books.
|
|
|
|
Post by jeffb on Sept 25, 2013 11:31:23 GMT -6
Bill Webb and Matt Finch are cool guys IMO, but I really do not see how using S&W makes you connected to Frog God Games if you consider that a problem. :shrug:
I own most of the big name clones, and a few or the lesser niche ones and retro inspired.
I am partial to S&W White Box, but also have Core and Complete and have run them with great success.
Delving Deeper is probably the most well written and closest to it's source. Looking fwd to the hardcover.
Moldvay/Cook/Marsh is my fave D&D variant but I just cannot get into LL. Frankly, alot of it is the art, everytime I crack open the book, it just turns me off the game. I know some people like the look, but not me. Same goes for Basic Fantasy RPG. Drives me nuts aesthetically. Luckily I have a couple copies each of my original B/X books, and WOTC is selling PDFs again.
Of the retro inspired, I really dig Spellcraft & Swordplay, and I am getting ready to run my first DCC game this weekend.
Most of these variants have a free version or preview. Check em out. Someone on RPGNOW/DRIVETHRURPG has put out a document detailing 15 or 20 of the clones/variants and goes over how they differ. Its a couple bucks to buy. Might be worth looking into.
Overall, S&W is the game I would want if I had to choose just one clone.
|
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 25, 2013 11:52:05 GMT -6
I am not too keen to be connected to Frog God Games in any way, as their reputation in the business frankly creeps me out a bit. Their reputation?? Those are some strong words, and I’m afraid I will have to challenge them. I have never heard anything bad about FGG. I find their products to be attractive, exciting, playable, and even delivered in a timely fashion. I completely admire, and completely enjoy the company of, both Bill Webb and Matt Finch. I “get” them because they are hobbyists to the core. They seem to be making good business, but that’s okay, they work hard and love the game. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 12:11:44 GMT -6
Wow, thanks for all those suggestions! That will help me greatly! ...And take me a month to read and evaluate. -_- Blueholme... Sounds nice, though.
As to FGG, I am going to be blunt, but also understand that I don't know the people involved, nor wish them any harm:
But NG begat FGG, and NG's reputation was not all that good, prompting Bob Bledsaw jr to publically state that he would not work
with them "based on principle", IIRC. That, plus another bunch of stories about them essentially trying to rip people of TSR-style
has created a pretty big bias against them on my side. Now, not that we are ever going to cross paths, anyway, but before I would announce
S&W, or any of their properties as the new "official" system for the LFC, I would be very, very careful.
|
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 25, 2013 12:21:07 GMT -6
Well, that’s just a lot of vague hearsay and guilt by association, so, I think I’ll just let it drop.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 12:24:13 GMT -6
Sorry, didn't want to stir up some crap.
All to the contrary, if you guys here vouch for FGG, that's a big recommendation in my eyes.
They are, after all, the third- or fourth-most important oldschool company, AFAIK.
|
|
|
|
Post by strangebrew on Sept 25, 2013 13:14:39 GMT -6
Quick qeustion, hoping not to nurture any flames by this Delving Deeper is the best, and if anyone says anything different I'll punch them in the nose!  Seriously, though, I think it's the best for simulating a LBB game. It manages to keep a lot of the energy and flavor of the original. It's a new and growing game, and easily compatible with S&W resources. I also like the S&W White Box for a quick game, a game with new players, or if you're unconcerned about maintaining the quirks of the LBBs. And it's so easy on the referee, especially if using ascending armor class. Since they're both free and easily available, you should at least consider using a synthesis of DD and S&W. |
|
|
|
Post by stevemitchell on Sept 25, 2013 13:46:43 GMT -6
Swords & Wizardry Whitebox is quite good, and for what it's worth, it's not published through Frog God. D100 Games has a nice S&W Whitebox variant called Crypts & Things, with more of a sword-and-sorcery approach. Another decent S&W Whitebox variant, available only through Lulu as far I can tell, is 3d6 in Order.
|
|
|
|
Post by bestialwarlust on Sept 25, 2013 14:22:13 GMT -6
Another vote for Delving Deeper.
|
|
|
|
Post by scottenkainen on Sept 25, 2013 19:36:56 GMT -6
Well, that’s just a lot of vague hearsay and guilt by association, so, I think I’ll just let it drop. Le Noir is reporting accurately. I don't want to copy and paste other people's conversations to here, but Bledsaw Jr. had a long public rant against Bill Webb on Facebook, the Wilderlands Fans group. ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper |
|
|
|
Post by geoffrey on Sept 25, 2013 20:26:54 GMT -6
For a hard-core Arnesonian game, try Dragons at Dawn.
|
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 25, 2013 20:39:34 GMT -6
Here’s how I look at it. OSRIC is a pretty strict clone of AD&D (3 Core only); Delving Deeper is a pretty strict clone of OD&D (3 LBBs only). Then you have Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord, which tend to be more all-purpose OSR games. They’re “normal D&D” without really strictly defined loyalties to specific previous rulesets, and they’re more about building their own brands. They probably vie for the most support material in general (although I think OSRIC takes the lead for most modules, specifically). Though they’re all going to be more or less compatible. Anyway, S&W and LL are probably the biggest brands in the OSR right now. So it really depends what you’re going for: which aesthetic you like the best, which community you enjoy best, that sort of thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 7:19:38 GMT -6
- Or rather, a system jump back to a more Arnesonian model of playing. Adventures in Fantasy? It isn't OD&D, but if you want Arnesonian.... |
|
|
|
Post by havard on Sept 26, 2013 8:02:15 GMT -6
- Or rather, a system jump back to a more Arnesonian model of playing. Adventures in Fantasy? It isn't OD&D, but if you want Arnesonian.... Dragons @ Dawn or Adventures in Fantasy would do the trick -Havard |
|
|
|
Post by aldarron on Sept 26, 2013 9:26:19 GMT -6
There are 6 rulesets that I know of whose stated goal is emulation of original D&D (In alphabetical order):
Champions of ZED
Delving Deeper
Labrynth Lord: Original Edition Characters
Swords & Wizardry
The Big Brown Book (in beta, no further development appears forethcoming)
Torch and Sword
The OGL restricts discussion of other OGL products without permission, so I'll leave that to others. CoZ however is certainly the most "Arnesonian" adaptation of the OGL by a country mile. The game acknowledges a deep debt to the earliest known draft of D&D and to the house rules of both Arneson and Gygax, Arneson's FFC content, and a few small portions of Supplement II.
|
|
Lord Kjeran
Level 2 Seer
Order of the Six Severed Hands
Posts: 26
|
Post by Lord Kjeran on Sept 26, 2013 10:54:56 GMT -6
And so, I am scanning the several OD&D versions and variants. Can you help me out with it? I myself am *ghasp* a Rules Cyclopedia gamer Well, since you mention this, do you know about Dark Dungeons? It's the RC-clone. Free pdf, print available at Lulu. www.gratisgames.webspace.virginmedia.com/darkdungeons.htmlAs to supporting a living system...~shrug~ If you like RC and want something in a print form, get DD. For what's it worth, I feel that the clones are all pretty much teh same when it comes to modules. One can pretty much run OSRIC, LL, S&W, etc, modules with any of the editions from 0 to 2nd. I, for one, prefer S&WC because it seems a lot like the way we used to play D&D growing up. Of course, all my kids have have 1e PHBs, so.... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 17:47:13 GMT -6
- Or rather, a system jump back to a more Arnesonian model of playing. Adventures in Fantasy? It isn't OD&D, but if you want Arnesonian.... Hehe, that one appears to be even more in copyright hell than Arneson's JG modules. Also, I recall it didn't treat humanoids as playable races. IIRC, AiF was more of a predecessor to Dragon Warriors in gaming style, than a real follow-up to D&D. From what I've read so far, I think I'll first check LL, but since the character genreation likely won't start for a few months, that's not A decission yet. |
|
Koren n'Rhys
Level 6 Magician
Got your mirrorshades?
Posts: 355
|
Post by Koren n'Rhys on Sept 26, 2013 19:11:54 GMT -6
Then you have Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord, which tend to be more all-purpose OSR games. They’re “normal D&D” without really strictly defined loyalties to specific previous rulesets, and they’re more about building their own brands. I'd have to disagree, Falconer. LL is about as close a clone of B/X as can be made. Yes, the AEC, and other follow-up supplements take further afield, but LLCore is as "pure" a clone as OSRIC or DD, easily. So, le noir, I'd say it depends on how you limit or define "OD&D". If youmean the LBBs, then Delving Deeper is probably best. If you mean Moldvay or Mentzer D&D, then go with Labyrinth Lord. |
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Sept 26, 2013 19:42:45 GMT -6
I'd have to disagree, Falconer. LL is about as close a clone of B/X as can be made. Yes, the AEC, and other follow-up supplements take further afield I’m not sure we have a disagreement. The LL brand encompasses more than solely LL Core. |
|
machpants
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Supersonic Underwear!
Posts: 259
|
Post by machpants on Sept 26, 2013 22:11:37 GMT -6
The big thing is most, if not all, are free in PDF. Take the lot, mix and match, play your way. GL!
|
|
|
|
Post by snorri on Sept 27, 2013 1:19:20 GMT -6
All are also more or less fully open content, so you can freely mix bits, make your own brew and release it |
|
Koren n'Rhys
Level 6 Magician
Got your mirrorshades?
Posts: 355
|
Post by Koren n'Rhys on Sept 27, 2013 10:35:36 GMT -6
I’m not sure we have a disagreement. The LL brand encompasses more than solely LL Core. Agreed. My point was more about the "core" book for any given clone really. S&W Whitebox is LBB OD&D, for example, compared to Core or Complete. So, LL Core is pure B/X. Certainly the AEC, OEC, Realms of Crawling Chaos, etc expand it far beyond it's B/X roots. Not so much a disagreement then, but more of a point of clarification. :-) |
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Sept 27, 2013 18:28:30 GMT -6
The LL brand encompasses more than solely LL Core. Certainly the AEC, OEC, Realms of Crawling Chaos, etc expand it far beyond it's B/X roots. Just to add another point of clarification, even so LL is really just B/X expanded. The game play still B/X, pretty much, you just get additional classes and "stuff", and the option to separate race and class. I guess the latter doesn't seem so strange to me because I read What is Dungeons and Dragons by Butterfield et al. just before the arrival of my magenta box, which advocates the idea. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2013 2:41:42 GMT -6
Double post, yay.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2013 3:34:27 GMT -6
Good morning, Away from flu medication, I shall henceforth write sentences that make, well, sence. So, I have been looking at RC, Blueholme, and LL, as I narrowed down the search. (No offense to the others, it was a mostly subjective choice.) Now, the problem is this: Some of the characters are pretty complex, compared to the rather simple ruleset. How can one express, say, a psion, a shapechanger, or similar over-the-top in OD&D and the simulacra? |
|
