The REAL Reason Why Dungeons Exist!

[jcstephens]

By the Dark Lords of Chaos, I believe the man has a point:

muleabides.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/logic-and-the-mythic-underworld/

[Deleted]

Good point, some of the stuff that my six and 10 year old do on Minecraft makes no sense. Why did you build a wooden house and fill it with lava, now you are mad because it caught on fire? lol

[oldkat]

I've given the matter similar thought over the years.

At this point, having written so many of these things, I am a bit too involved to be objective about it. But I have been trying to steer my thinking and designing toward a more reasonable purpose why these things exist. So I have a small list that assists me when I am working on a project.


The "dungeon"

...was created millennia ago by some unknown race/entity for purposes explorers aren't meant to know.

...is an abandoned structure or series of chambers that have been taken over by things over time.

...is truly a dungeon of horrors beneath a mad wizard's tower, or an evil knights keep.

...might be simply the cave(or group of caves) belonging to a hybernating dragon.

...could simply be the lair of a colony of frost giants along the base of a glacier.

...etc.


It isn't all that difficult to have some minute aspect of sense and logic to these things. The difficulty is in understanding those that make absolutely no frickensensewhatsoever!

[krusader74]

"Dark life–-those organisms that thrive underground in the absence of sunlight–-comprises 50 percent of the earth's biomass, is responsible for many geological phenomena, degrades our wastes and produces some of our energy." (Quoted from "Dark Life: Biology.")

Some of this "dark life" secretes sulfuric acid, which carves out huge caves and subterranean caverns. That's a key reason why the underworld exists.

More importantly, dark life creates gold mines! They precipitate minerals, such as gold, iron and uranium. They also produce crude oil and natural gas. And they do this by consuming (what we consider) waste. In other words, chthonian life forms produce most of what we call "wealth."

So, if you want to become wealthy, head underground.

Dark life is studied by geomicrobiology, a mashup of the fields of geology, geophysics, hydrology, geochemistry, biochemistry, and microbiology. In the real world, dark life is microbial. But it's plausible that dark life could evolve into more complex life forms, like the monsters that inhabit the dungeons of D&D.

[coffee]

Sept 18, 2013 2:00:57 GMT -6 krusader74 said:

"Dark life–-those organisms that thrive underground in the absence of sunlight–-comprises 50 percent of the earth's biomass, is responsible for many geological phenomena, degrades our wastes and produces some of our energy." (Quoted from "Dark Life: Biology.")

Some of this "dark life" secretes sulfuric acid, which carves out huge caves and subterranean caverns. That's a key reason why the underworld exists.

More importantly, dark life creates gold mines! They precipitate minerals, such as gold, iron and uranium. They also produce crude oil and natural gas. And they do this by consuming (what we consider) waste. In other words, chthonian life forms produce most of what we call "wealth."

So, if you want to become wealthy, head underground.

Dark life is studied by geomicrobiology, a mashup of the fields of geology, geophysics, hydrology, geochemistry, biochemistry, and microbiology. In the real world, dark life is microbial. But it's plausible that dark life could evolve into more complex life forms, like the monsters that inhabit the dungeons of D&D.

This is great! I like it.

This worldview would also account for the inherent Law/Chaos divide in original D&D: Law = Life, Chaos = Dark Life.

[peterlind]

I am all for the whole Law vs. Chaos vibe that was set up by Gygax & Arneson. I expect it was influenced by Three Hearts and Three Lions (a must read). If you check out Chainmail, Men & Magic, and First Fantasy Campaign, you will see that the hosts of Law, Chaos, and Neutraility were all set up for us . . . I would love to see an update and careful expansion of these early lists . . . this was great for the flavor and setting of D&D

So if some of your dungeons are actually nests of Chaos, then a lot of the lack of logic can be explained as related to the nature, and power, of Chaos itself. How can monsters live in these dungeons without apparent food supplies, etc. Why it is the power of Chaos that sustains them . . Your dungeons of Chaos will have some driving force that runs it . . . ideally a Chaotic magic-user who is the mastermind behind the design, the tricks and traps, and so forth.


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[gronkthebold]

The ideas of Chaos' pure energy being the main fuel for the weirdness of dungeons, and how creatures are able to co-exist and survive without an apparent source of sustenance are brilliant. It really adds to the pulp-style mysteriousness and oddness of the unknown in dungeons!

[Vile Traveller]

<frantically scribbling notes for future reference>

[drskull]

I think it really has something to do with affordable Lancashire Kitchens

[maldoor]

What I meant to add to that original post on the mule was this striking youtube video of an epic minecraft creation.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNw2YcAK9Wc

A cat fountain. Someone actually spent hours to create this. I am still working on a way to incorporate this into a dungeon somehow.

[Otto Harkaman]

Interesting reading Gary Gygax in the book "Role Playing Mastery" he states that it was an inconsequential portion of Chainmail that started dungeons.

In a short section pertaining to siege warfare. I instructed the reader to use paper and pencil when dealing with the underground aspects of such battles. The mining, countermining, and secret escape routes employed during the sieges were to be drawn out on graph paper. David L. Arneson, then of St. Paul, Minnesota, didn't miss that.