OD&D draft House Rules

[cadriel]

Curious what the folks here will think of my current draft house rules for a game I'm going to try and get together soon.

Character Abilities

All characters are generated with 3d6 in order. One swap may be made between two statistics that are not Charisma in addition to the point swapping described in Men & Magic.

Strength:
8 or less: -1 on damage for all melee attacks (minimum 1)
13 or more: +1 on damage for all melee attacks

Wisdom:
7 or less: -1 on saving throws versus Spells
14 or more: +1 on saving throws verus Spells

Allowed Races

Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Hobbit.

Elves may be fighting-men / magic-users. In this case they decide before an adventure starts which class will receive experience for that adventure. Such types may only cast spells in armor if they are wearing Elven Chain (cost: 100 x the cost of normal chain mail).

Level limits are enforced. Any race may be Fighting-Men but only to level 4 (elves and hobbits) or level 8 (dwarves and half-elves). Elves and half-elves may be magic-users but only to level 8. Any race may be Specialists without limit in level.

Nonhuman characters who have reached the limit in levels may not advance further in hit dice, spells, etc. However, they may begin advancing in Specialist skills other than Sneak Attack. For every 100,000 XP gained, such a character may allocate 2 points to Specialist skills.

Character Classes

The following character classes are available:

Fighting-Man: as per Volume I: Men & Magic
Magic-User: as per Volume I: Men & Magic
Cleric: as per Volume I: Men & Magic. Must always be Lawful or Chaotic.
Specialist: abilities as per Lamentations of the Flame Princess: Weird Fantasy Roleplaying, but fights as a Cleric, and uses the Magic-User charts for saving throws and hit dice.
Druid: as per Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry but follows the cleric hit dice progression from Volume I: Men & Magic. Must be Neutral.
Paladin: A fighting-man may become a paladin (as per Supplement I: Greyhawk) but only after having reached 4th level (Hero).

Hit Points

At character creation, if a 1 is rolled for hit points, the player should re-roll.

Upon gaining a level, the player may choose to gain an extra hit die in addition to their character’s current hit points, or re-roll all hit dice. In the former case, if the character gains less than a full hit die, they subtract the difference from the roll. For example, a Swashbucker (5+1) becoming a Myrmidon (6) can only gain 1-5 hit points if adding to an existing total. A Super Hero (8+2) becoming a Lord (9+3) gains 2-7; when he becomes a Lord, 10th Level (10+1) he only gains 1-4 hit points, and so on. There is always a gain of 1 hit point regardless of method used.

All character types use one of the hit dice tracks from Volume I: Men & Magic.

Combat

Rounds are 10 seconds long. That doesn’t effect anything, it’s just how long they are.

Initiative is rolled using 1d6 for each side. The high roll goes first. Tied rolls mean that action is simultaneous.

A character using a long weapon (spear, polearm, halberd, two-handed sword, lance, pike) gets +3 on initiative for the first round of a combat, acting before their group. In each subsequent round, characters with such weapons have -1 to initiative, acting after their group.

Weapons do 1d6 damage. Two-handed weapons roll two dice and take the better damage.

Spellcasters on a side that has lost initiative, who receive damage in a round, cannot cast a spell. Their spell is interrupted, but is not lost.

If a character rolls a natural “20” on the to-hit die, they get +1 to damage. If they roll a natural “1” on the to-hit die, their next roll to-hit is at -1.

Characters firing arrows into melee will have their targets randomly determined by the referee before rolling to hit. This determination will take into effect the relative visibility of each target. The player may ask the rough chance to hit a given target, but not which target they will hit.

Starting at 2nd level, fighting-men may attack once per round per level when fighting against creatures of 1 HD or less (HD of 1+1 counts as more than 1 HD). When the character reaches 8th level (Super-Hero), he may attack twice per round so long as the total hit dice of opponents is equal to or less than his hit dice. A Super-Hero (8+2 HD) can fight two ogres (4+1 HD each) but only one Troll (6+3 HD). Such extra attacks always apply against different targets.

Death and Dying

Characters reaching 0 hit points die. However, death is not necessarily instantaneous. It takes 1d6 rounds for a character at 0 HP to die. For every HP the character was reduced below 0, subtract 1 from the die roll. A result of 0 or less means instant death. While the character is dying, they may not attempt any action, but magical healing (spells, potions etc) may be performed on them. Restoring a character to 1 or more hit points ends the dying state.

[inkmeister]

I'd happily play under your rules here. They seem good and mostly conventional. I'm not totally sure I got your HP advancement scheme; seems a little more involved than necessary.

I might consider your "not necessarily dead at 0" rule ripe for some kind of critical/serious wound scheme, where getting knocked to zero means you are a candidate for a serious debilitating injury (maybe reflected as a level drain??). Could be fun, or could be infuriating. Just a thought.

In general, I'd try to streamline the rules, but nothing you've got here is too fiddly.

My personal preferences AT THIS MOMENT (subject to change tomorrow) are for:
No ability scores
Non random HP
2 broad classes
No standard demi-humans or humanoids
No alignment
No variable weapon damage (ironic considering my debate in the variable damage thread, but part of the fun is changing your mind about stuff).
Improving AC with level for fighters
Ascending AC and hit bonuses, rather than tables or thaco
Single Saving Throw

Anyway, I like your rules and would happily play in your game based on what I see here. Tell us about your campaign in the campaign thread!

[cadriel]

Aug 26, 2013 13:24:30 GMT -6 inkmeister said:

I'd happily play under your rules here. They seem good and mostly conventional. I'm not totally sure I got your HP advancement scheme; seems a little more involved than necessary.

A lot of it is the oddity introduced by going from 1+1 HD to 2 HD or similar - technically you aren't going up a full HD. If you just roll another die at second level, you could in theory have the result that you have 13 HP on 2 dice. Unless you view that as intentional.

The other option is the EPT-style "reroll at every level" method.

I might consider your "not necessarily dead at 0" rule ripe for some kind of critical/serious wound scheme, where getting knocked to zero means you are a candidate for a serious debilitating injury (maybe reflected as a level drain??). Could be fun, or could be infuriating. Just a thought.

I'm not really into the "maimed heroes" thing, and if I wanted it I'd probably go for something more like Runequest where it's a natural part of the system. I'm just for giving a chance to not instant kill PCs.

[waysoftheearth]

Nice work cadriel

My comments (since you ask) are as follows:

. You might consider having 13+ strength adjusting "to hit" rather than damage. The 3LBBs allow +1 on a d20 with an ability score of 13 or more, but to adjust a d6 by +1 (which is thrice as good!) they require an ability score of 15 or more. See here.

. You might consider introducing the saving throw bonus at 13+ wisdom for the same reason.

. The hit points stuff is a bit complicated... is it worth it? Why not just reroll all HD with a minimum +1 hp for each level added, or -1 hp for each level lost?

. 10 second combat turns will affect what can be achieved beyond combat for its duration. Will reinforcements arrive before it's all over, for example? You may not mind either way, but it might be worth noting.

. The 1 HD limit for multiple attacks was introduced in AD&D. You may or may not mind either way, but FWIW, here's my interpretation of OD&D's multiple attacks:

OD&D multiple attacks are applicable versus "normal" "man-types" AND any creature with 1/4 (or fewer) as many HD as the fighter (as per M&T and the FAQ).

"Normal" "man-types" are loosely defined in OD&D, but include berserkers, elves, hobgoblins, etc. with 1+1 HD. 2 HD Cavemen are also listed as "Men" on the encounter tables in U&WA, and 2 HD Gnolls are listed as "persons" in the Charm Person spell In M&M. Additionally, according to M&M, 2 HD (2nd level) fighters are still "normal", only becoming "heroic" when they have 3 HD (at 3rd level).

That's why I believe OD&D's multiple attacks apply versus enemy with fewer than 3 HD. I explained this in more detail here.

Also, as per M&T, OD&D multiple attacks are made as a 1 HD (normal) man. Thus, a 4th level fighter would attack either once per round as a 4th level fighter (versus opponents with 3 or more HD), or four times per round as a 1 HD/1st level fighter (versus opponents with fewer than 3 HD).

I also described this with a few examples recently here.

But as I say, you may or may not care either way

[cadriel]

Aug 27, 2013 0:18:19 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Nice work cadriel

My comments (since you ask) are as follows:

. You might consider having 13+ strength adjusting "to hit" rather than damage. The 3LBBs allow +1 on a d20 with an ability score of 13 or more, but to adjust a d6 by +1 (which is thrice as good!) they require an ability score of 15 or more. See here.

. You might consider introducing the saving throw bonus at 13+ wisdom for the same reason.

That's good stuff. I had put the Wisdom bonus at 14 for the sake of variety but I think it's an interesting enough threshold to use. I was on the fence about the damage thing, I'll leave it so only special magic weapons and critical hits add to damage.

. The hit points stuff is a bit complicated... is it worth it? Why not just reroll all HD with a minimum +1 hp for each level added, or -1 hp for each level lost?

Yeah, I might just go with that. I was trying to go for an "either or" approach but trying to rationalize out going from 1+1 HD to 2 HD is too odd. Rerolling at each level makes the most sense for using the Men & Magic progression.

. 10 second combat turns will affect what can be achieved beyond combat for its duration. Will reinforcements arrive before it's all over, for example? You may not mind either way, but it might be worth noting.

That's an interesting question. I would actually think that reinforcements that can see / hear a combat would be considered "in combat time" and move appropriately relative to the combat.

. The 1 HD limit for multiple attacks was introduced in AD&D. You may or may not mind either way, but FWIW, here's my interpretation of OD&D's multiple attacks:

OD&D multiple attacks are applicable versus "normal" "man-types" AND any creature with 1/4 (or fewer) as many HD as the fighter (as per M&T and the FAQ).

"Normal" "man-types" are loosely defined in OD&D, but include berserkers, elves, hobgoblins, etc. with 1+1 HD. 2 HD Cavemen are also listed as "Men" on the encounter tables in U&WA, and 2 HD Gnolls are listed as "persons" in the Charm Person spell In M&M. Additionally, according to M&M, 2 HD (2nd level) fighters are still "normal", only becoming "heroic" when they have 3 HD (at 3rd level).

That's why I believe OD&D's multiple attacks apply versus enemy with fewer than 3 HD. I explained this in more detail here.

Also, as per M&T, OD&D multiple attacks are made as a 1 HD (normal) man. Thus, a 4th level fighter would attack either once per round as a 4th level fighter (versus opponents with 3 or more HD), or four times per round as a 1 HD/1st level fighter (versus opponents with fewer than 3 HD).

I also described this with a few examples recently here.

The D&D FAQ specifically notes that the Hero gets 4 attacks versus 1 HD orcs, at his 4th level attack rank (he needs an 11 to hit versus AC 6, which matches 4-6 in the attack matrix). So I'm OK with him getting those attacks as a fighter. I also don't want "Normal Man" to go up to 2 HD for the specific reason that Veterans shouldn't be treated as "Normal Men."

The Super-Hero rule is my own extrapolation because I rather like the idea that a Super-Hero can fight 2 ogres at once.

But as I say, you may or may not care either way

I appreciate the commentary, I know you've spent a lot of time with this math and it's good to make it consistent.

From a number-crunching standpoint, do you think a fumble should have a bigger penalty? Specifically to offset +1 on 1d6 - wouldn't the equivalent be a -3 on 1d20? Or is that too harsh?

[waysoftheearth]

Aug 27, 2013 5:27:47 GMT -6 cadriel said:

The D&D FAQ specifically notes that the Hero gets 4 attacks versus 1 HD orcs, at his 4th level attack rank (he needs an 11 to hit versus AC 6, which matches 4-6 in the attack matrix).

That's true too!

Which means... the FAQ appears to contradict M&T, so either the FAQ fighter example supersedes M&T entirely, OR the FAQ example applies to fighters and the M&T statement continues to apply to monsters. What a mess

Aug 27, 2013 5:27:47 GMT -6 cadriel said:

do you think a fumble should have a bigger penalty? Specifically to offset +1 on 1d6 - wouldn't the equivalent be a -3 on 1d20? Or is that too harsh?

In some games rolling a 1 results in a trip, or a dropped, bent, or broken weapon; a -3 penalty on your next attack isn't so bad compared to that I think that one's for the ref to decide.

[cadriel]

Aug 27, 2013 6:51:22 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

That's true too!

Which means... the FAQ appears to contradict M&T, so either the FAQ fighter example supersedes M&T entirely, OR the FAQ example applies to fighters and the M&T statement continues to apply to monsters. What a mess

In my games I think the FAQ will supersede M&T, because I like the consistency of monsters always using their HD on the attack matrix rather than switching based on number of attacks.

In some games rolling a 1 results in a trip, or a dropped, bent, or broken weapon; a -3 penalty on your next attack isn't so bad compared to that I think that one's for the ref to decide.

Yeah, a lot of fumble rules are fairly heavy penalties on the players. I've found in practice even +1 damage on a critical is enough for players to be happy, so I want a correspondingly simple penalty on a fumble.

[cadriel]

I went back through and adjusted a number of things. Part of it is clarification, other parts are based on going back over the D&D FAQ again and the discussion here. I removed Specialists for now.

Character Abilities

All characters are generated with 3d6 in order. One swap may be made between two statistics other than Charisma in addition to the point swapping described in Men & Magic.

Strength 8 or less: -1 on to-hit roll for all melee attacks
Strength 13 or more: +1 on to-hit roll for all melee attacks
Wisdom 8 or less: -1 on saving throws versus Spells
Wisdom 13 or more: +1 on saving throws verus Spells
Dexterity 6 or less: -1 on initiative rolls
Dexterity 15 or more: +1 on initiative rolls

Allowed Races

Human, Dwarf, Elf, Half-Elf, Hobbit.

Elves may be fighting-men / magic-users. In this case they decide before an adventure starts which class will receive experience for that adventure. Such types may only cast spells in armor if they are wearing Elven Chain (cost: 100 x the cost of normal chain mail).

Level limits are enforced. Any race may be Fighting-Men but only to level 4 (elves and hobbits) or level 8 (dwarves and half-elves). Elves and half-elves may be magic-users but only to level 8.

Nonhuman characters who have reached the limit in levels may not advance further in hit dice, spells, etc. However, they may advance on “to-hit” charts. Hobbits make one advance at 100,000 XP, and all other types make an advance for each 300,000 XP in addition to their total.

Character Classes

The following character classes are available:

Fighting-Man: as per Volume I: Men & Magic
Magic-User: as per Volume I: Men & Magic
Cleric: as per Volume I: Men & Magic. Must always be Lawful or Chaotic.
Druid: as per Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry but follows the cleric hit dice progression from Volume I: Men & Magic. Must be Neutral.
Paladin: A fighting-man may become a paladin (as per Supplement I: Greyhawk) but only after having reached 4th level (Hero).

Hit Points

At character creation, if a 1 is rolled for hit points, the player may re-roll.

Upon gaining a level, a player re-rolls all their hit dice. If the total is equal to or less than the character’s current hit points, their total hit points increase by 1 instead.

All character types use one of the hit dice progressions from Volume I: Men & Magic.

Combat

Rounds are 10 seconds long. That doesn’t effect anything, it’s just how long they are.

Initiative is rolled using 1d6 for each side. The high roll goes first. Tied rolls mean that action is simultaneous. Initiative is modified by a high or low Dexterity as noted above.

A character using a long weapon (spear, polearm, halberd, two-handed sword, lance, pike) gets +3 on initiative for the first round of a combat, acting before their group. At this point, a spear or pike may be set to receive a charge, attacking when the opponent closes. In each subsequent round, characters with long weapons have -1 to initiative, acting after their group.

Weapons do 1d6 damage. Two-handed weapons roll two dice and take the better damage. Spears and pikes set to receive a charge do 2d6 damage.

Spellcasters who have lost initiative, and receive damage in a round, cannot cast a spell. Their spell is interrupted, but is not lost.

If a character rolls a natural “20” on the to-hit die, they get +1 to damage. If they roll a natural “1” on the to-hit die, their next roll to-hit is at -2.

Characters firing arrows into melee will have their targets randomly determined by the referee before rolling to hit. This determination will take into effect the relative visibility of each target. The player may ask the rough chance to hit a given target, but not which target they will hit.

Starting at 2nd level, fighting-men may attack once per round per level when fighting against creatures of 1 HD or less (HD of 1+1 counts as more than 1 HD). When the character reaches 8th level (Super-Hero), he may attack twice per round so long as the total hit dice of opponents is equal to or less than his hit dice. Such extra attacks always apply against different targets.

Death and Dying

Characters reaching 0 hit points die. However, death is not necessarily instantaneous. It takes 1d6 rounds for a character at 0 HP to die. For every HP the character was reduced below 0, subtract 1 from the die roll. A result of 0 or less means instant death. While the character is dying, they may not attempt any action, but magical healing (spells, potions etc) may be performed on them. Restoring a character to 1 or more hit points ends the dying state.

Hirelings and Retainers

Each hireling will have a morale score between 2 and 12 determined secretly by the referee. This is adjusted by the “Loyalty Base” score of the character hiring them (see Men & Magic, page 11). During stressful situations, or when being ordered to do something obviously dangerous, this score will be used to determine whether the hireling will perform the action or continue to fight. The referee will roll 2d6 and if the result is greater than the morale score, then the hireling will take action to save himself such as fleeing, refusing orders, etc.

[Stormcrow]

Aug 28, 2013 7:11:06 GMT -6 cadriel said:

Initiative is rolled using 1d6 for each side. The high roll goes first. Tied rolls mean that action is simultaneous. Initiative is modified by a high or low Dexterity as noted above.

I suggest modifying the initiative roll by dexterity only in the first round of combat. Possessing the initiative also lets a party decide to parley, for instance, and this has nothing to do with reaction speed. Ongoing battle drowns out the effects of quick reflexes in gaining the initiative, and so shouldn't matter except to see who leaps to the attack first.

Think of initiative as a trophy for which two—or more—sides battle for possession. Possessing the trophy means you get to dictate the tactics of the round.

If you want to get really fancy, use an ability score adjustment based on the most relevant ability for the desired action. Take, for example, a party encountering a wandering monster. The referee decides that initiative must be won by dice-roll. If the party wants to attack, they modify their roll by the dexterity of the combat-leader of the group. If they want to parlay, they modify their roll by the charisma of the speaker. If they want to evade, they modify their roll by the wisdom of the overall party leader. I wouldn't necessarily get this complicated myself, but it's a possible alternative.