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Post by Zulgyan on May 8, 2008 14:56:45 GMT -6
Hi there Melan,
Awesome module for Fight On! dude, I hope to see more!
Hey, so how do you run the game with your grid-less maps in game? Do you use a scale? How do you describe dimensions? Do players have problems with mapping?
How do handle things during game with a map with no grids?
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Post by Melan on May 9, 2008 3:01:30 GMT -6
Very easily, I don't care too much about exact measurements, and use approximates. What difference does it make if a corridor is 50' or 60' long? In the end, player mapping is also inaccurate, even with the best.
After a lot of years, I have trained myself to be able to think in 10' increments. When I describe dimensions, I often use direct comparisons, including the legendary room ("The statue is about one-and-a-half as tall as this room.").
But again, I don't pay that much attention to it, and whenever I tried to draw maps on a grid, the end result was lackluster and uninteresting.
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Post by Zulgyan on May 9, 2008 11:26:50 GMT -6
Thanks for the answer.
How do you prevent from having the PC's map with corridors and rooms that overlap unintentionally due to the "rough measurements way" of describing distances and sizes? Is that even a problem?
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Post by grodog on May 9, 2008 21:11:38 GMT -6
I usually draw my player maps freehand on gridless paper, which I've always thought was more "in-character" than graph paper; it's also more fun for scribbling notes all over the place. For me, anyway
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Post by geoffrey on May 9, 2008 21:46:06 GMT -6
Inspired by Melan, I drew the first level of my Gamma World megadungeon on completely blank (not graph) paper. The scale is 1 millimeter represents 1 meter.
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Post by Melan on May 11, 2008 12:23:28 GMT -6
How do you prevent from having the PC's map with corridors and rooms that overlap unintentionally due to the "rough measurements way" of describing distances and sizes? Is that even a problem? Not much of a problem. The maps are always good enough for navigation, and that's what counts. I'd probably have a problem with very meticulous players, but thankfully, mine aren't. A greater problem is large maps. Some of my players don't like the mapping part that much, and get bored if it dominates play. This coloured game sessions set in the Khosura megadungeon, for example; some people were having less fun, and one player was especially disappointed. So for now, I've scaled back the dungeons. Coincidentally, shouldn't this be in UW-W adventures?
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Post by Zulgyan on May 11, 2008 13:12:08 GMT -6
I'll try this and see how it goes. I also see it as a way to abandon feets and starting to play by the metric system.
hey, by the way, you did inspired yourself in Wizardry 7's YMMU, right?
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Post by robertsconley on May 11, 2008 19:52:45 GMT -6
My day job involves writing the control software for metal cutting machines. It has been my experience that people can be learn to be quite accurate with eyeball measurement given enough practice. I had numerous times when developing a new pre-canned part that the guy looks at it and say "it is a 1/32 or 1/16 of inch off." and they are right.
I heard accounts from the milling side of the business that there are some who can tell if parts are thousandths off by rubbing their thumbs across the edge.
For D&D style mapping, it shouldn't take long to develop a good sense of the scale of a map.
Another thing is that I learned from live action experience is that the average person has a decent sense of direction. Sure there are those who you can get lost in a maze however, even in the most complex dungeon setup we done if you start out at the entrance most people don't have trouble getting out after they explored it.
The reason is because people look at cues from the surrounding and the average person is fairly good at remember them. It is a skill common enough that at least one person in a party can make their way in and out mapless.
Because of this I largely forego the mapping requirement as long as the character has average or higher intelligence. This is further reinforced by the fact that I am always a DM that used miniatures and dry erase boards so the map of the immediate area is there on the table.
Outdoor is a little different. Most players remember things in a subway style map. They get off the usual route then they have trouble because of all the different directions they could go.
If want to require mapping go ahead. It is part of the old time dungeon crawl experience. Like some of the other abstractions of D&D it may not be realistic but makes for a fun game that we know and love.
As a final note I want to say that for a lite system like OD&D, experience with live-action roleplaying like NERO, is very helpful. By their nature NERO style LARPS are rule light and their dungeons are filled with challenges like old school dungeons. Experience in this type of LARP not only allows you to get a sense of the limitations but also the possibilities of what people can do in typical D&D encounters. I seen and done many creative things trying to crawl through a dungeon in my ten years of LARPing.
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Post by Melan on May 12, 2008 7:13:29 GMT -6
hey, by the way, you did inspired yourself in Wizardry 7's YMMU, right? You have taste and distinction, but I already knew that. The answer is yes; now try to spot the other references. There are some. Wizardry VII was such a formative experience... maybe I could say it was my first edition AD&D and Arduin, rolled into one and supplemented with a healthy diet of things like the **BEAST OF 1000 EYES**.
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Post by murquhart72 on May 12, 2008 18:57:04 GMT -6
Should be noted that when Gary played, he didn't bother with grids but rather made "trail maps" in which lines represented corridors (maybe with approximate lengths), and shapes indicated rooms, chambers and points of interest (with notes on what was found therein written by or in the shape). I've always loved this approach but never considered it for DM map making... until now!
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Post by Thigru Thorkissen on May 13, 2008 6:37:47 GMT -6
Should be noted that when Gary played, he didn't bother with grids but rather made "trail maps" in which lines represented corridors (maybe with approximate lengths), and shapes indicated rooms, chambers and points of interest (with notes on what was found therein written by or in the shape). I've always loved this approach but never considered it for DM map making... until now! If you think about it, that's what he did for the underworld in the D-series modules. I personally like the idea as it makes drawing large underworld maps very quick and easy and you really only need to draw detail of specific rooms/areas (again, like the D-series modules). I personally like mapping without a grid, as it makes it harder for PCs to "fill in the blanks" to guess where secret doors should be or to quickly figure out they've been teleported, etc. Thigru
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Post by pjork on May 14, 2008 18:04:02 GMT -6
Should be noted that when Gary played, he didn't bother with grids but rather made "trail maps" in which lines represented corridors (maybe with approximate lengths), and shapes indicated rooms, chambers and points of interest (with notes on what was found therein written by or in the shape). I've always loved this approach but never considered it for DM map making... until now! I never knew that, but I have been thinking of trying something like that myself. Does anyone know if any of these maps have made their way to being images on the internet?
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Post by hackman on May 22, 2008 13:39:49 GMT -6
I think that the approach of lines and shapes is a good one actually if one is wanting to create large dungeons. To me it would be a lot less time consuming than otherwise.
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