Economics of PC Classes

[waysoftheearth]

One of my table top players is constantly nagging me about the untenable economic disparity between the PC classes.

By his argument, magic-users are weighed down by unreasonable economic penalties. Fighters can buy the top set of armour (plate) for 50gp, and it will serve them faithfully game after game after game. Magic-users, meanwhile, are burdened with the need to buy spell scrolls and/or spell books at 100gp per spell per spell level, and these are merely "one shot" items!


Has anyone done a reasonably thorough analysis of how much gold PCs of different classes could be expected to accumulate and/or spend?

I'd be very interested to hear what others have made of this "imbalance"...

[talysman]

I haven't done an analysis, but there's something in the rules that's very obvious once you notice it: experience points = cumulative wealth, more or less. If characters get 4/5ths of their experience from treasure, then a 4th level Hero with 8,000 xp has probably acquired 6,400 gp or more, a 9th level Lord with 240,000 xp has recovered at least 192,000 gp. Compare the M-U at 4th level (10,000 xp, 8,000 gp) and the 9th level Sorcerer (100,00 xp, 80,000 gp.)

The Fighter has very little equipment to buy, but then there's the matter of building a keep and hiring men-at-arms to defend it. Very expensive... In contrast, the wizard is mainly spending gold on spell research; how much depends on whether you require research for spells listed in M&M or not. (We had that conversation once...)

[machpants]

I've never played with a group that doesn't pool resources. Scrolls help the party and they all pay for them. The cost to the individual PC is pretty irrelevant IME.

[waysoftheearth]

Yes gp recovered is proportional to XP earned.

So it makes sense then that available gp = gp recovered - gp spent.

The question is... what are a PC's typical expenses?

Fighters might need:
The best money can buy armour,
A sizable company of mercenary fighters and hangers on,
Healing potions,
A stronghold.

Magic-users might need:
Expendable spell scrolls/potions,
Expendable charges for wands/staves,
Body guards,
A tower.

Clerics might need:
Contributions for the church,
Good armour,
Expendable scrolls/potions/charges,
A posse of fanatics,
A temple.

Thieves might need:
Superior information from maps and/or a network of spies/informants,
Spurious magical advantages?
A band of enforcers, or otherwise talented individuals,
A hideout.

What else might they need? And how do the cost of these things compare?


machpants... wow, I've never met a player who didn't want to have is own "treasury"

[machpants]

Nope it is always as a party, I find it bizarre that people want to their PC get one over another PC. Not going to help you on your adventures at all.

[waysoftheearth]

I guess the pooled resources approach works nicely if the PCs are lawfuls, or a proper "company" with a shared motivation such as a guild, or family, or church, or even a mercenary band. If someone is assigned as "quartermaster" (or equivalent) and everyone else trusts them to do a decent job of it, then it all works fine.

But if they're a random bunch of easy-come, easy-go neutrals out for themselves, with a few lawfuls and/or chaotics thrown in... then it can get more complicated.

In my experience of tabletop campaigns, the players are almost always trying to get one up on the other players -- especially in the out of dungeon play. All megalomaniacs pretending to get along while their lives depend on it. That's half the fun!

[Finarvyn]

May 16, 2013 0:25:03 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

machpants... wow, I've never met a player who didn't want to have is own "treasury"

Actually, my current gaming group is much like this as well. They pool resources and share almost everything. Depending upon my mood, I might demand that they determine who carries what or I might just let the party select one representative to keep track of the group funds. The "banker" if you will. Ironically, the guy they always pick to track the wealth is the party thief.

[waysoftheearth]

You can imagine one poor guy following the PCs, lugging around their 100,000 gp in a huge sack ;D

[Deleted]

Keep in mind, too, the ongoing expenses of living. According to Volume III U&WA page 24:

PLAYER/CHARACTER SUPPORT AND UPKEEP:
Player/Characters must pay Gold Pieces equal to 1 % of their experience points for support and upkeep, until such time as they build a stronghold. If the stronghold is in a wilderness area all support and upkeep costs then cease, but if it is in a village or town not controlled by the player/character then support and upkeep payments must continue.

1% may not sound like much, but as with any other expense, it does add up after a while. Particularly doing "dry" spells while the party wizard is writing scrolls or party is recovering from wounds. And if the party has hirelings I add their upkeep on top of the 1% figure.

[zeraser]

A related question: Are fighters required to purchase or build strongholds, or is it just something they're supposed to want to do?

[Deleted]

May 16, 2013 12:15:14 GMT -6 zeraser said:

A related question: Are fighters required to purchase or build strongholds, or is it just something they're supposed to want to do?

Though building a stronghold was a typical result of reaching high (for OD&D) levels BitD, it was in no way a requirement. As far as wanting to, I can only speak for myself: running a realm was blast. My only regret is that I wasn't better at waging war against my neighbors. I understood (and understand) the theories of strategy and tactics but I'm awful at putting them into action.

I'll let some of the others who also around in the 1970's answer for themselves.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2013 21:21:29 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

One of my table top players is constantly nagging me about the untenable economic disparity between the PC classes.

By his argument, magic-users are weighed down by unreasonable economic penalties. Fighters can buy the top set of armour (plate) for 50gp, and it will serve them faithfully game after game after game. Magic-users, meanwhile, are burdened with the need to buy spell scrolls and/or spell books at 100gp per spell per spell level, and these are merely "one shot" items!


Has anyone done a reasonably thorough analysis of how much gold PCs of different classes could be expected to accumulate and/or spend?

I'd be very interested to hear what others have made of this "imbalance"...

I've never heard anybody say it.

If one of my players said it to me, I'd reply, "At level 18 you get WISH as a spell. Waah, waah, waah."

[Zenopus]

May 15, 2013 21:21:29 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

One of my table top players is constantly nagging me about the untenable economic disparity between the PC classes.

By his argument, magic-users are weighed down by unreasonable economic penalties. Fighters can buy the top set of armour (plate) for 50gp, and it will serve them faithfully game after game after game. Magic-users, meanwhile, are burdened with the need to buy spell scrolls and/or spell books at 100gp per spell per spell level, and these are merely "one shot" items!

You could offer to let Fighters get their sword "balanced and sharpened" for 100 gp, giving +1 to hit/damage, lasts one combat.

[Sean Michael Kelly]

May 16, 2013 4:37:42 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

....The "banker" if you will. Ironically, the guy they always pick to track the wealth is the party thief.

His name is Judas?

[Torreny]

It must really vary between groups, because no matter what game and setting we run, the party's resources are always pooled whenever something of benefit is called for. I'll also note, that they're never terribly interested in the logistics of managing a realm. Purchasing a posh house, or building a hide-out from an abandoned warehouse, however they're doing every so often.

I think my favorite is when one of the players takes up the miserly banker role, and often acquires a camel or other beast to carry the riches as he rides atop with an abacus.

[strangebrew]

I sometimes require fighters, clerics, and thieves to replace their equipment under certain circumstances. For example, if a character is down to zero or less HP, they have to make a Save vs. Death to survive and be only laid up for a few weeks. In this case, they might have to repair or replace their armor, since its assumed to be dented, shredded, and/or covered in blood.

I also require equipment upkeep, which is 50% the cost of the item, for time to time. For example, if they are adventuring in a fetid swamp, they will have to replace leather armors completely, and then pay 50% cost of chain and plate to have them cleaned and have the padding replaced. These are kind of rough guidelines I tend to follow, and as long as it isn't too frequent players don't mind... in fact it kind of makes it a bit more realistic and immersive.

I usually make armor double the price from the OD&D list, and have my own list with more goodies and knickknacks taken from AD&D2 etc.

I encourage them to spend spend spend, like to buy land and build a kind of communal safe house as soon as they can afford it, buy a boat, a team of horses and a wagon, donations/bribes, sage fees, etc. And I encourage them to pitch in some for Magic-Users' spell scrolls (using the Holmes rule).