How was anyone supposed to use Chainmail in OD&D

[Deleted]

I think that Gygax and Arneson must have been seriously into marijuana back when they designed the 3LBs. They say that the Chainmail system is supposed to resolve combat in OD&D. Each of the classes is given a fighting ability, such as "2 Men" or "Superhero -1", which is supposed to reference Chainmail in some way.

Digression 1 - Monsters, on the other hand, are given no corresponding rankings. While some are included in Chainmail, many are not. How do you determine their attack? Find the closest monster in Chainmail I guess. In the alternative, you can use the following table, based off the Fighting Man's progression and the Alternative Combat Tables:

Hit Die 1 = Man + 1
Hit Die 1 + 1 = 2 Men
Hit Die 2-3 = 3 Men or Hero - 1
Hit Die 4-5 = Hero
Hit Die 6-7 = Hero + 1 or 5 Men
Hit Die 8-9 = Superhero
Hit Die 10-11 = Superhero + 1
etc.

Returning to the original problem, a 1st Level Veteran fights as a "Man + 1." In Chainmail, that could be any of six types: Light Foot, Heavy Foot, Armored Foot, Light Horse, Medium Horse, Heavy Horse. Heroes and Superheroes fight as "4 Men" and "8 Men", respectively. I assume the pluses and minuses are to the hit die.

Digression 2 - There is a "Man to Melee" table in Chainmail that would seem a promising addition to the woefully undeveloped combat system in OD&D. It actually takes the weapon used into consideration and allows combat without having to use a D20. While it needs some work, unfortunately, it isn't the intent of the designers to use it.

The next step in determining how to hit is to figure out which type of "Man" your character is supposed to be. Don't forget that Chainmail Men have different attack and defense ratings. I would work this as follows:

If a character is using a weapon that costs between 2-4 GP, then he attacks as Light Foot, if the weapon costs between 5-6 GP, then as Heavy Foot, and if 7-15, then Armored Foot.

Dagger, Hand Axe, Spear = Light Foot
Mace, Morning Star, Lance = Heavy Foot
Sword, Flail, Pike = Armored Foot
Pole Arm or Halbred = Light Horse
Two-Handed Sword = Medium Horse
+ 1 Weapon = Heavy Horse

AC9 = Light Foot - 1
AC8 = Light Foot
AC7 = Heavy Foot
AC6 = Armored Foot
AC5 = Light Horse - 1
AC4 = Light Horse
AC3 = Medium Horse
AC2 = Heavy Horse

Lets put this into practice. I have a 9th Level Lord, who fights as a Superhero + 1, wears plate armor and carries a +1 sword. A Superhero fights as 8 Men. In this case, the Lord fights as 8 Heavy Horse Offense and Defense. He gets a + 1 on each die.

His opponent is a Chimera. The Chimera will fight as a Superhero. It will defend as Light Horse based on its AC of 4. How does it attack? It is closest to a Dragon, so it attacks as Heavy Horse.

Thus, in order for the Lord to hit the Chimera, (8 Heavy Horse vs. 8 Light Horse), he gets to roll 16 die and scores a hit on a 5 or 6. Each die score gets added a one. For the Chimera to hit the Lord, (8 Heavy Horse vs. 8 Heavy Horse), he gets to roll 8 die and must get a 6 on one. This is how I understand the rules to work.

This is an extreme exercise in making up my own interpretations of the rules and analogizing them to the closest examples in print. I think I will stick to the Alternative Combat System from now on.

[foster1941]

Look at the encumbrance table (vol. I, p. 15) for Chainmail equivalents based on armor type: enc. 0-750 (no armor or leather armor) = light foot; enc. 751-1000 (chain-mail) = heavy foot; enc. 1001+ (plate armor) = armored foot. If you're mounted the type of horse you're riding determines whether you count as light (light horse), medium (medium warhorse), or heavy (heavy warhorse) horse. Melee weapon types and shields only matter if you're using the more detailed Man-to-Man combat rules (the different types of bows and crossbows matter because they have different ranges and ROFs).

For monsters' fighting ability, see Vol. II, p. 5: monsters count as one man-type for each hit die, with any bonuses added to one (not all) of the rolls. Which type of man (light, heavy, or armored) presumably following the same guideline as above: AC 9-6 = light, AC 5-4 = heavy, AC 3-2 = armored.

Any successful hit (a "kill" in Chainmail) inflicts 1-6 hit points worth of damage. This is noted at the bottom of Vol. I, p. 19 in the later printings and is actually missing from your copy (assuming the text of the 2nd & 4th printings is identical).

[Finarvyn]

Great minds must think alike. This is thread is almost exactly the same basic notion that I was trying to convey in the thread I started earlier today.
link

[Deleted]

Apr 10, 2008 17:32:09 GMT -6 foster1941 said:

Any successful hit (a "kill" in Chainmail) inflicts 1-6 hit points worth of damage. This is noted at the bottom of Vol. I, p. 19 in the later printings and is actually missing from your copy (assuming the text of the 2nd & 4th printings is identical).

That small, yet extremely important detail is missing from my 2nd Print and your 4th. For those of us with early prints, if we could not take from the later prints, we would have to infer that characters did 1d6 damage because monsters did.

Apr 10, 2008 17:32:09 GMT -6 foster1941 said:

Look at the encumbrance table (vol. I, p. 15) for Chainmail equivalents based on armor type: enc. 0-750 (no armor or leather armor) = light foot; enc. 751-1000 (chain-mail) = heavy foot; enc. 1001+ (plate armor) = armored foot. If you're mounted the type of horse you're riding determines whether you count as light (light horse), medium (medium warhorse), or heavy (heavy warhorse) horse. Melee weapon types and shields only matter if you're using the more detailed Man-to-Man combat rules (the different types of bows and crossbows matter because they have different ranges and ROFs).

For monsters' fighting ability, see Vol. II, p. 5: monsters count as one man-type for each hit die, with any bonuses added to one (not all) of the rolls. Which type of man (light, heavy, or armored) presumably following the same guideline as above: AC 9-6 = light, AC 5-4 = heavy, AC 3-2 = armored.

That is another way to do figure the defense ratings. However, it assumes that attack and defense ratings are essentially equilavent. In most cases, they would be. Since mounted combat generally does not happen in dungeons, both monsters and players would be fighting as foot. In the wilderness, I think that monsters that can fly or are larger than man size should fight as horse troops depending on hit die.

[busman]

Ha! I responded in Fin's thread earlier and that's only because in trying to articulate just how confused I was last weekend in trying to suss this all out ended up with me typing a 2 page word doc that I didn't think was concise enough to post here.

Any successful hit (a "kill" in Chainmail) inflicts 1-6 hit points worth of damage. This is noted at the bottom of Vol. I, p. 19 in the later printings and is actually missing from your copy (assuming the text of the 2nd & 4th printings is identical).

That small, yet extremely important detail is missing from my 2nd Print and your 4th. For those of us with early prints, if we could not take from the later prints, we would have to infer that characters did 1d6 damage because monsters did.

This is also missing from my (what I'm assuming is a) 7th print.

[busman]

Oh PS: You forgot that Magic Users go from Hero +1 to Wizard (which is equal to 2 Armored Foot). YAY!