EPT "Hit Dice"

[samwise7]

Hello everyone.

I've never played EPT, but I am going to be running a 1-shot of it in November at a local Pittsburgh gaming convention (GASPCON). So I need some clarification on a few things.

The way that EPT uses the term "Hit Dice" seems to be a little vague.

Hit dice are normally Hit Points, but it seems to be talking about them as attack dice rolls too.

There is also something about higher level characters using more dice... Anyone care to help clarify this?

Thanks.

[samwise7]

I made up some pregenerated characters, and currently the bonuses they get from higher stats add to BOTH attack rolls and hit points.

Another question I have, is that when you are given a bonus to "Damage Dice" is this an actual bonus (like D6+2) or is it actually additional D6 dice that are rolled?

It looks like you get actual additional D6s if you are a high level character vs a low level character, so I wanted to be sure since I've never ran this before.

[Finarvyn]

Aug 20, 2012 5:55:24 GMT -6 samwise7 said:

The way that EPT uses the term "Hit Dice" seems to be a little vague.

Hit dice are normally Hit Points, but it seems to be talking about them as attack dice rolls too.

It's been a while since I've read my EPT books, and there are some others who are probably more qualified to answer this, but I'll take a stab at it and maybe some others will chime in. The original EPT was highly inspired by OD&D so I'm assuming that a lot of the vocabulary use is similar.

Hit dice typically create hit points. If you have a 3 HD monster, you roll 3d6 to generate a hit point total.

You could use HD in an offensive sense like "the 3 HD monster attacks you" and you wouldn't be rolling those dice again, but instead this would indicate the power or level of a monster. There is most likely an attack matrix where you match the attacker's level against the defender's armor class, and the HD number would represent the attacker's level.

Aug 20, 2012 7:09:18 GMT -6 samwise7 said:

Another question I have, is that when you are given a bonus to "Damage Dice" is this an actual bonus (like D6+2) or is it actually additional D6 dice that are rolled?

The standard interpretation of this notation is the number of dice to be rolled, plus the number added to the roll total. (Not extra dice.)

As an example, d6+2 would mean roll 1d6 and add 2 to the roll. If your d6 roll had been a 3, the total would be 3+2 or 5. If the roll had been a 6, the total would be 6+2 or 8. Essentially, d6+2 is used to generate a random number between 3-8 instead of 1-6. Does that help?

4d6+2 would mean roll four d6's, add up the total, and add 2 to that total.

Does that help?

[waysoftheearth]

Aug 20, 2012 5:55:24 GMT -6 samwise7 said:

There is also something about higher level characters using more dice... Anyone care to help clarify this?

I'm not an expert on EPT either, but I remember that EPT has a unique damage method, whereby higher level PCs roll more dice for damage when they hit.

(Just looked for it...) the table under section 730 on page 31 shows number of dice to roll for damage as be determined by the attack's level compared to the defenders HD.

[samwise7]

I kind of figured Constitution's high stats added to Hit Dice (aka bonus hit points per level), but then I saw the exact same wording for high Strength, High Intelligence, etc. So perhaps the correct way to do it would be more in line with classic D&D standards, with a few tweaks.

The damage dice thing kind of intrigued me though. If it is actual extra D6s that would kind of be a cool house rule, or in this instance an interpretation of the rules.

When I saw the extra damage dice for high level PCs vs low level PCs it made me think about it.


So it sounds like "Hit Dice" under Dex, Str, Int are for bonuses to attack rolls D20 + X, "Hit Dice" for Con adds to Hit Points, and damage dice could be extra D6s or just a bonus to the damage like standard D&D is.

[rleduc]

The term "Hit Dice" in EPT was a bit ambiguous in the original rules. if you check out the "House Rules" for character creation in Badger's play by post EPT campaign on this board at the bottom, you'll see his clean-up of that confusion. I get confused every time I think about it, but the topic is nicely cleared up there.

[samwise7]

Thanks. I'll go check it out.

[greentongue]

You may want to review this. It has a modification to Constitution bonus, a new Attribute and a new Profession.
Adventurer Variant - The Dragon Magazine #31
home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/DragonMagazine31.pdf
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[samwise7]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

[Finarvyn]

See ... I knew that our EPT experts would chime in and save the day. Thanks, guys!

[blackbarn]

Samwise7, have an exalt for bringing this up in the first place. I kept meaning to and always forgot about it! I read the EPT rules and found them to be well-written, all except for the use of "hit dice" in the character creation section. I guess it's good to know (though unfortunate) that nobody else understands it either, and it must be house-ruled. I'd like to play the game but not until this issue is cleared-up. Would be great if someone who played in the original game could comment as well, if they recall how it worked. Thanks for the comments and links though, guys.

[rleduc]

Badger has extensive experience and inside knowledge, so I'm pretty confident his "house rules" are the way EPT was meant to be. I do think EPT as published by TSR is inconsistent in the meaning of the term in different contexts, so there is no choice but to try to read between the lines.

I have thought that the ambiguity might have crept in when the Professor's original manuscript, with its own definition of the term "hit dice", was edited by folks at TSR who tried to align the terminology with D&D's usage with less than 100% success. It would be interesting to go through the original manuscript, now that it's available, and see. But this is 100% uninformed supposition - I have no knowledge that such edits were made by TSR.

[samwise7]

I bought the original PDF. I should go look at it.

[samwise7]

It seems to me that the green cover version of the rules is very similar in this respect. Now that I've looked at everything, it seems that stats only add a bonus to attacks, or a bonus to damage rolled. Interestingly I don't think a high Constitution adds anything to Hit Points if we are strictly going by the rules (or at least my interpretation of them).

I'm sure I'll house rule it like every other RPG I've ran, but it is interesting. I rather like that multiple stats add to your effectiveness in combat.

[Deleted]

It almost seems like the talents should be modifying hit points instead of to hit rolls. The description of low Intelligence says the character is "too dumb to strike or parry properly", so less damage and easier to kill (fewer hit points). Likewise Dexterity is one's ability to "parry blows and dodge" yet it doesn't affect a PCs armor class.