WOTC supports White Box D&D??

[vladtolenkov]

Did anybody catch this quote from Mearls:

The project we’re undertaking is more than just a revision of the D&D rules, it’s a new approach to how we look at D&D as a whole. The release of the classic Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game is part of our plan to make it clear that we support all versions of D&D, from the original white box set to the newest 4th Edition expansions. D&D has a long and rich history—one that we intend to embrace and support even as we move into the future.

Supporting White Box??

Now. . .what does that mean?

Here's the link:

www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4alum/2012Feb

[Deleted]

The cynic within me says: it means they don't know OD&D from shinola.

The dreamer within me says: big news is on the way!

Take your pick!

[tombowings]

Yeah. There was a time where I thought they were pulling my leg. The I got over that and thought they might actually pull it off. Not is just seems like everything put out by WotC is about marketing and has no real substance at all. This is just another one of those substance-less posts as far as I'm concerned

[mgtremaine]

Well now.... Put out another print run of the OCE and will talk

-Mike

[Sean Michael Kelly]

My stance on this is that I have no desire to hold my breath. With what I have already and the great retro-clone support already available, I'm not sure what WoTC would bring to the table but inventive ways to try to get me to part with my money. :-P

[Finarvyn]

I assume that he means "D&D Next will be a game which can be played by enthusiasts of all editions."

I don't get the vibe that they are planning active support of OD&D any more than they are really supporting AD&D. The AD&D reprints are in limited quantity and as far as I know will receive no actual product support other than the books themselves.

[Deleted]

Well, I can say to that is ... "deeds over words".

Their deeds, to this point at least, do not give credence to their words. For crying out loud, all they would have to do to support the OD&D fan base is to make the previously available PDFs legally obtainable (again).

Is including us in the new release a positive thing? Sure, if that is indeed what they intend, and if that can even be done in any meaningful way. I'm skeptical a game that appeals to the 4th Ed crowd will sail with us older gamers.

But right now? This second? Release the blasted PDFs!

Plus, the wording of that quote gives a lot of wiggle room for future plausible deniability.

[busman]

From what I'm reading he's saying that the release of the AD&D print run books is the part of the plan that shows that they are supportive of everything. I don't read future support of older editions in that quote. I like Mike, he even came to these boards a few times before 4th ed release, I think that Mike likes old school gaming and supports it, Mike isn't Wotc by himself though, and certainly not hasbro.

[Deleted]

I have nothing against Mike, either. I've never met him IRL but I've interacted with him in cyberspace.

Nor do I have an axe to grind with D&D Next ... I'm merely stating I'm not going to buy a pig in a poke and further opining they have taken on a formidable task. Not impossible, mind; but a tough job.

Last of all the quote The release of the classic Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game is part of our plan to make it clear that we support all versions of D&D, from the original white box set to the newest 4th Edition expansions.

Stating they support "all versions" including "the original white box" on the heels of stating the AD&D reprint is a part of that support strategy sounds as if he is strongly implying a similar level of support for O&D. The alternative is he is either making statements he can't back up or he was misquoted.

This isn't a slam against Mike the person, this is calling to question statements made by WotC through Mike.

(edited to correct sentence flow following the quote)

[vladtolenkov]

The company spent ten years pretending that D&D didn't have a history, and now that the fan community has taken LONG steps toward reclaiming that history they've woken up at what a gigantic blunder it is to pretend otherwise.

Well, that's something anyway.

[jacar]

Of course there is support for White Box. "Oh. I see you are using a very old copy of Dungeons and Dragons. I believe we can answer your questions more easily if you upgrade to version 4."

[cadriel]

The buzz seems to be that they are trying to make a version that is modular enough that people who like 3e character optimization can play at the same table as people who prefer OD&D. It's probable that the game will have options for simple fast and deadly combat, and for highly detailed combat, and options for feats and skills and character optimization, and rules for playing "a fighter."

It more or less means that WotC expects old school gamers to buy 5e. Personally I think it's mostly marketing hype, because I don't find anything aesthetically interesting enough about WotC D&D to actually buy a product from them.

[Zenopus]

cadriel: I think they've back away "multiple styles at one table". It's now more of the new edition supporting multiple styles of play but not at the same time. Each group will choose if they want a "core" game, or a more complex type built on that core.

[Harbinger]

I still think we'll get an OD&D reprint for the 40th anniversary in 2014. I also think the base 5e game will look a lot like B/X so OSR material will be compatible.

[cadriel]

Feb 18, 2012 18:13:30 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

cadriel: I think they've back away "multiple styles at one table". It's now more of the new edition supporting multiple styles of play but not at the same time. Each group will choose if they want a "core" game, or a more complex type built on that core.

Of course, assuming that the games published by WotC are nothing but more complex versions of older D&D betrays an utter lack of understanding of the different assumptions behind the different games.

I'm really not sure what WotC will offer that would make gamers attracted to classic editions buy anything for it. Their track record leaves quite a lot to be desired.

[Deleted]

Feb 18, 2012 18:13:30 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

cadriel: I think they've back away "multiple styles at one table". It's now more of the new edition supporting multiple styles of play but not at the same time. Each group will choose if they want a "core" game, or a more complex type built on that core.

Now that is a whole lot more believable than "many styles at one table".

[tombowings]

The more they go back on their previous statements, the more skeptical I am of their upcoming game. If they make a statement, that's the standard I'm holding them to.

[Deleted]

I might actually be impressed if they'd said "brown box" instead of "white box."

Right now it's "the usual marketing crap" until proven otherwise.

[Zenopus]

I found the article I was thinking of. It's by Monte Cook, on the WOTC stie, from a few weeks ago:

Unifying the Editions, Part 2

"To be clear, we're not talking about creating a bridge so that you can play 1E and 4E at the same time. Instead, we're allowing you to play a 1E-style game or a 4E-style game with the same rules. Also, players at the table can choose the style of character they want to play."

I was thinking of the first sentence. But based on that third sentence, maybe one player will be able to play a 1E style character and another a 3E style character in the same game.

[palmer]

Jeff Rients did just that recently, to see how it could go.

[busman]

Feb 18, 2012 16:47:39 GMT -6 @dubeers said:

Stating they support "all versions" including "the original white box" on the heels of stating the AD&D reprint is a part of that support strategy sounds as if he is strongly implying a similar level of support for O&D. The alternative is he is either making statements he can't back up or he was misquoted.

I don't think you're reading the quote right. You're reading it the way he may have intended it to be read, but not what it says. I don't think there's any obligation implied by the release of the core AD&D books to anything greater for re-release.

Let me take it the worst way possible to make it totally clear what I think the reality is...

The release of the classic AD&D is... our plan to make it clear we support all versions...

Here's what I think he's saying:
"We wanted to show our support of all the old versions, so we released a limited print run of the most popular for those people who like the old versions. We may or may not re-release anything else from the old library, if we deem it necessary. But, this is just a nod to the OSR, the rest of our plan is "support" old versions by making D&D Next good for everyone."

Yeah, I'm being an ass here, but this is completely how I take that quote.

I expect no reissues of old content, or direct WOTC releases support 0e, 1e, 2e, 3e, or even 4e leading up to or after D&DN comes out.

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2012 4:31:56 GMT -6 busman said:

I don't think you're reading the quote right.

That is entirely possible!

Yeah, I'm being an ass here ...

No, you're not. Your doing a fine job of presenting your opinion in a non-challenging manner. I hope I'm doing the same ... I'm enjoying the discussion.

[geoffrey]

It would be great if WotC republished the 1974 rules in a sturdy, wooden box. (Talk about woodgrain!) And not as some sort of limited specialty item, but as a continuously available game. In addition to the booklets and referee sheets, they should include a set of dice as well (but no 10-sider, and the 20 should be numbered 0-9 twice!).

On top of that, they could also publish a "Deluxe" version of the above boxed set. It would also include supplements I through IV.

[Deleted]

Great idea, Geoffrey. I've long been a fan of the company that produces the original versions of Risk and Monopoly, complete with retro-style playing pieces and box art. It seems OD&D is a natural for this kind of limited, high-end release.

Heck, you could even make the wooden box look like a treasure chest ...

[jmccann]

Feb 19, 2012 9:55:51 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

It would be great if WotC republished the 1974 rules in a sturdy, wooden box. (Talk about woodgrain!) And not as some sort of limited specialty item, but as a continuously available game. In addition to the booklets and referee sheets, they should include a set of dice as well (but no 10-sider, and the 20 should be numbered 0-9 twice!).

On top of that, they could also publish a "Deluxe" version of the above boxed set. It would also include supplements I through IV.

Hear hear! And off topic, look what I got from Amazon a few days ago:

[busman]

Feb 19, 2012 12:53:45 GMT -6 jmccann said:

Hear hear! And off topic, look what I got from Amazon a few days ago:

Yum!

[Mr. Darke]

I'm cautiously optimistic but I am not holding my breath on anything. The few hints we have gotten about 'D&D Next' do have me interested but not sold. I will have to see the game to make a final decision on it.

FWIW, it sounds like the new D&D is going to be similar to C&C without the SIEGE engine which, is a good thing in my book. If it is close to that WOTC will have me back as a customer.

[Sean Michael Kelly]

The only thing I've really liked from WoTC so far is the map tiles. Great quality and decent price.... but now that I own them, I found I never actually used them in a game.

[vladtolenkov]

I hope this quote in my OP isn't just marketing talk for D&D 5 or whatever. I'm hoping its a fundamental recognition that D&D's identity and history can't be entirely forgotten in the face of whatever new thing they're trying to sell. The endless editions of the game were simple going to destroy the ability of the company to have any fan base at all.

They hopefully have seen that going down the road they were on with 4th edition was going to take them into a place that by the next edition or two they were going to have nobody left who cared as their customers had clearly decided they weren't moving on when the company decided they were done with the current edition. The popularity of both Pathfinder and the clone games makes this painfully clear. They couldn't just hope to put the D&D name on some new iteration of rules and hope that everyone got on board.

So embracing the actual history of the IP they own seems like a good idea for WOTC. We've all been embracing that early history, and it does seem increasingly bizarre that the company that owns the game would try to ignore that history.

[strangebrew]

Feb 20, 2012 14:51:20 GMT -6 vladtolenkov said:

So embracing the actual history of the IP they own seems like a good idea for WOTC. We've all been embracing that early history, and it does seem increasingly bizarre that the company that owns the game would try to ignore that history.

Yeah, it does seem absurd, especially since they're sitting on a goldmine of intellectual property (modules especially). I really hope the basic game bears a striking resemblance to OD&D (as they have said themselves) and that the adventure releases are relatively straight adaptations of classic modules. Not something like "Return to the...(somethingsomething)" but the actual module itself.

The fact they've been playtesting the game using a version of Keep on the Borderlands/Caves of Chaos is promising.

I'd also love it if all the interiors were black and white only, without any annoying borders. I don't really get the appeal of the full color, art everywhere book. B&W would keep the price down as well, make it easier to write notes in the margins, and would also make it easier to print as a pdf (which they should make possible).

But something tells me we'd be more likely to see a reprint of the white box than this last point. Nature of the industry (or the consumer) these days.