The Challenge of "Getting" EPT

[waysoftheearth]

A quote from Badger's epic you too can run EPT thread;

Aug 10, 2011 20:18:56 GMT -6 badger2305 said:

Aug 10, 2011 19:58:56 GMT -6 aldarron said:

Makes sense to me. Might be good to have one or two explanatory posts about a few of the more unfamiliar (from a D&D standpoint) rules in EPT too.

Good idea! Help me out here - which ones were you thinking of? I'm so close to the rules in my own head that I might have a hard time coming up with examples.

This thread is to expand upon Aldarron's comment.

I reckon that a bullet point "short list" of the differences between by-the-book OD&D and EPT could go a long way toward helping regular (non-EPT) D&Ders into an understanding of, at least, the basic mechanical differences that come with EPT.

This list could read something like a regular list of "house rules" for the EPT setting. That kind of thing is already familiar to most D&Ders, so should sit comfortably with most folks.

I'm a clueless EPT newbie, so something like this would be a great help to me too. Here's a few things I've noticed:

• PC Abilities (strength, intelligence, etc.) are called Basic Talents.
  
• Delete Wisdom and Charisma.
  
• Add Psychic (magic use), and also Comeliness.
  
• Basic Talents are determined by d100 (not 3d6).
  
• Strength, intelligence and dexterity all adjust attack and damage rolls.
  
• There is a 20% chance of one talent being increased by either 5% or 10% with each new experience level earned.
  
• There are fighting-Men, priests, magic-users.
  
• Priests require Intelligence.
  
• Magic-users require Psychic.
  
• All PCs have a number of Original Skills (backgrounds, like baker, carpenter, scribe, and so on) based on a d100 roll.
  
• Additional Original Skills can be gained at level up (50% chance), or gained in play by training.
  
• PCs have a number of Professional Skills based on class and a d100 roll. These are similar in nature to proficiencies of later versions of D&D (languages, weapon proficiences, etc), and to many original edition spells as well as some new spells.
  
• One additional Professional Skill is gained at each level.
  
• Higher level PCs have an XP penalty so that the higher you go, the slower you grow. XP is normal up to 3rd level. Then a 4th level PC earns only 50% XP, and more advanced PCs earn progressively less until a 10th level PCs earns only 5% XP!
  
• 0 hit points is incapacitated.
  
• -1 or fewer hit points is dead.
  
• There is a completely different fauna (no Hobbits, Elves, Goblins etc.).
  
• There are 2HD and 3HD player races which can advance in the three PC classes as usual.
  
• Magic-users can wear leather armour, and use only daggers.
  
• Priests can wear any armour, and use any non-edged weapons.
  
• Daggers cause 1-4 damage (1d6 re-rolling 5 or 6).
  
• Heavy weapons cause 1d6+1 or 1d6+2 damage but require 80+ or 90+ strength to use, respectively.
  
• The attacker rolls to hit once and then rolls between 1 and 5 damage dice according to his level versus the target's level/HD. The damage can be distributed across many targets, thus a high level fighter can slay many low level opponents in a single round.
  
• An attack roll of 20 allows the attacker to roll twice as many damage dice.
  
• An attack roll of 20 followed by a second roll of 19+ instantly slays the opponent, regardless of HD.
  
  
• Spells have a chance of failure based on caster level. 60% base chance at 1st level. Eek.
  
  
• PCs begin with d100 gold kaitars. On a roll of 100 roll again, and stack.
  
• 1 gold Kaitar = 20 silver Hlash = 400 copper Qirgal.
  
  
• Most equipment is made of Chlen-hide rather than metal.
  
• Steel plate mail and shield is considered AC 1, which is one place better than Chlen-hide plate and shield.
  

Well, that's by no means complete, but it's at least a start on the obvious stuff

[aldarron]

Man Ways! That's awsome!! Exalt!

I can't think of anything to add to the list but I had had a question regarding what exactly the EPT text meant in the description of the combat round that Chirine answered very clearly:

"The 'combat round', at least the way both Dave and Phil played it, was that each 'combat round' consisted of one dice roll per person or creature engaged in the combat; each player would roll to see if they hit their target and do damage. Usually, they'd do it with the 'attacker' in the melee striking first, with the 'defender' then rolling; both Dave and Phil would allow the defender to choose between attacking back or trying to parry the blow. The 'round' would consist of a set of dice rolls for each attacker and defender, as well as any other actions by parties not engaged in the actual melee.

The EPT variations on this were basically that the longest weapon stuck first, no matter who held it, and that multiple-limbed beings could attack with each weapon held in a limb; it's what made Ahoggya and Pe Choi so deadly in individual combat, as they'd get twice the number of strike per turn as any humans. "

full discussion here: blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=430&start=10

[Deleted]

Very nice, Ways! Thanks for doing this!

[kent]

Aug 13, 2011 23:56:24 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

[/li][li] The attacker rolls to hit once and then rolls between 1 and 5 damage dice according to his level versus the target's level/HD. The damage can be distributed across many targets, thus a high level fighter can slay many low level opponents in a single round.[/quote]

Yes I really love this abstraction. It smooths out the rule that allows the D&D Fighter a *level number of attacks* versus <1HD opponents in order to apply the idea to higher level opponents.

It is a swift and agreeable *abstraction* because in the case where an attacker through level superiority gets to roll additional nd6 damage the result is pooled and is an assault on the pooled HPS of multiple opponents killing off the weakest opponent first. [eg 4HD=13 damage done to 4x1HD = 3,4,5,3 opponents will kill off the 3,3,4 opponents and reduce the 5hp to 2hps]

In essence it is subsumes extra damage and extra number of attacks and which opponents are attacked into a single bunch of d6 rolls. Very handy and a house rule worth stealing.

Note how the table only works with damage by weapon restricted to the core d6 with all bonuses (for weapon type; strength etc) added at the end. However personally I have bought a bunch of beautiful Casino d6 so I would be happy to normalise all weapon damage to d6 with modifiers even for AD&D.

Bear in mind that probabilistically *in the long run* a d6+1 exactly equals a d8 and a d6+2 exactly equals a d10.

[badger2305]

Aug 13, 2011 23:56:24 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Here's a few things I've noticed:

• PC Abilities (strength, intelligence, etc.) are called Basic Talents.
  
• Delete Wisdom and Charisma.
  
• Add Psychic (magic use), and also Comeliness.
  
• Basic Talents are determined by d100 (not 3d6).
  
• Strength, intelligence and dexterity all adjust attack and damage rolls.
  
• There is a 20% chance of one talent being increased by either 5% or 10% with each new experience level earned.
  
• There are fighting-Men, priests, magic-users.
  
• Priests require Intelligence.
  
• Magic-users require Psychic.
  
• All PCs have a number of Original Skills (backgrounds, like baker, carpenter, scribe, and so on) based on a d100 roll.
  
• Additional Original Skills can be gained at level up (50% chance), or gained in play by training.
  
• PCs have a number of Professional Skills based on class and a d100 roll. These are similar in nature to proficiencies of later versions of D&D (languages, weapon proficiences, etc), and to many original edition spells as well as some new spells.
  
• One additional Professional Skill is gained at each level.
  
• Higher level PCs have an XP penalty so that the higher you go, the slower you grow. XP is normal up to 3rd level. Then a 4th level PC earns only 50% XP, and more advanced PCs earn progressively less until a 10th level PCs earns only 5% XP!

The issue of XP came up as a question in Seal of the Imperium in The Dragon #11. Here's a part of Prof. Barker's answer: "The answer is that I more or less deliberately tried to keep players (and nonplayer allies and henchmen) from rising far too fast for the game. I have played in D-and-D campaigns in which we all shot right up to 27th level wizards or whatever, and — in my opinion — the fun was lost. As a result, I may have made it TOO hard for players..." In my own humble opinion, the escalation of XP needed for each level combined with XP penalties as you get higher in levels might rise to the level of being a "bug" and not an "undocumented feature."

• 0 hit points is incapacitated.
  
• -1 or fewer hit points is dead.
  
• Magic-users can wear leather armour, and use only daggers.
  
• Priests can wear any armour, and use any non-edged weapons.
  
• Daggers cause 1-4 damage (1d6 re-rolling 5 or 6).
  
• Heavy weapons cause 1d6+1 or 1d6+2 damage but require 80+ or 90+ strength to use, respectively.
  
• The attacker rolls to hit once and then rolls between 1 and 5 damage dice according to his level versus the target's level/HD. The damage can be distributed across many targets, thus a high level fighter can slay many low level opponents in a single round.
  
• An attack roll of 20 allows the attacker to roll twice as many damage dice.
  
• An attack roll of 20 followed by a second roll of 19+ instantly slays the opponent, regardless of HD.

Good to point these out! Many of these combat rules are similar to or identical with various D&D rules, rules variants, or house rules. But it is also important to be specific about them as part of the frame for EPT as written.

Several more things worth pointing out:

• Divine Intervention. The Gods WILL answer your prayers, but not necessarily as you might have wanted...
  
• Surprise: if you gain surprise, you have a free action during the surprise round AND you have the initiative in the first normal combat round.
  
• Number of figures able to engage in melee depends on what they are wearing and doing.
  
• Those slain during a combat round get a "dying blow" before they expire.
  

This is a really good set of differences! Thank you!

[aldarron]

If I happen to notice any that seem worth mentioning I'll just add them here

• "Eyes" of colorful names, are a ubiquitous magic item, generally taking the role of the D&D wand.
• Running doubles movement distance but, also doubles rest required

[badger2305]

It seems to me that we have three sorts of issues here:

• Errata: genuine mistakes that can be easily caught and hopefully as easily solved.
  
• Rules clarifications: expansions and explanations of rules where they are unclear.
  
• Rules modifications: suggested changes to rules that make them "fit better" together.
  

The first two are fairly easily done. The last one is much more difficult, as it relies on a judgment call about what is "broken" and what is "fixed" - after all, such questions have been raised about Original D&D (and later judged to be overly hasty in their conclusion).

I think we can take this in stages and see what it takes the discussion.

[Deleted]

Thank you for posting these. I was a tad confused on the modifiers as described in o:ept for Basic Talents. In particular, M.A.R. Barker originally switches between the term "Hit Dice" and "Hit" in an non-uniform manner throughout the text. I take the modifier to be on "Hit Dice" for Constitution (bonus of +1 or +2 Hit Points to each roll of Hit Dice every time you level up), but for Strength, Intelligence and Dexterity, it is a modifier "To Hit" during combat. I assume others ejudicate it similarly. When you look back at White Box D&D for comparison sake, that lines up appropriately (I think at least). Thoughts? Corrections? I'm willing to be proven otherwise. What 'waysoftheearth' posted above lines up with this method of judgement as well.

[Deleted]

Another item that is missing, unless I've completed missed it in reading and re-reading the original text, but how much damage does hand-2-hand combat inflict? If we go again to White Box D&D as a potential cross-reference, the assumption is 1HP + any modifiers to damage given by Basic Talents? Also, when not stated otherwise, what should be utilized for unarmed damage from say, a large Tsoggu, which one would not naturally think is armed other then raw strength? Should it be perhaps [Damage = # of Hit Dice] for unarmed combat base damage? For example a 3 Hit Dice creature can inflict (unless otherwise stated in it's description) 3 Hit Points of unarmed damage through hitting or otherwise crushing the human scum that has entered it's lair?? That seems to make some sense. OR alternatively you could just stick to the basic 1d6 for every weapon unless otherwise stated - rule of thumb? Objections? Corrections? Thoughts? Jabs? Suggestions? The reason I ask is that a good handful of the original ept creatures do not have a listed damage from their natural or otherwise un-natural weapons.

[greentongue]

A creature’s Hit Dice Level is counted as its Level when it does damage.
home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/EPT_Charts.html

[Deleted]

greentongue-
Doh! Thank you. I completely missed that paragraph in the original rules. Section 730, 2nd to last paragraph starting "Damage dice for animals..." And thanks for producing that website. I will be bookmarking it for use when doing Google+ games with the original rules. You really sum up a lot with one-liners that are otherwise buried in the original text.

I knew of your site a long time ago, as I reference it in my D6 conversion document when picking Original Skills there-in. Thanks again for hosting that site. It helps a great deal! and is apropos to this thread.