EPT and "Old School"

[James Maliszewski]

I'm posting this here, since there isn't a "Philosophy and EPT" forum, although my intention is to spark a wider ranging conversation than one specifically about EPT.

EPT is clearly a variant of OD&D and has always been recognized as such. As we've seen in other threads, people sometimes go to EPT to see how certain rules in OD&D should or at least might be interpreted, because they're written a bit more clearly than the originals. From that, we might conclude that EPT is unambiguously "old school." The mere existence of this forum suggests that this is the collective judgment of this community as well.

Allow me to propose a heretical thought: EPT isn't old school, or at least it shows the early symptoms of the ailment that has overtaken many a RPG. I say this because EPT introduces not only skills but skill rules. They're rudimentary and inconsistent and some might argue -- not without reason -- that they're more akin to "class abilities" than to skills in the traditional sense. I'm honestly inclined to agree on this point.

Still, I know there are a lot of people for whom skills and skill systems are the camel's nose under the tent. So, why does EPT get a pass? More broadly, when is a skill system acceptable and "old school" and when is it not?

[greentongue]

The Original Skills are aquireable but not improvable. They serve more as a background then as a game mechanic. True, they can and often are used "In Game" as a justification of why the character can most assuredly do some related task. From my experience they are rarely the focus of the game.

Again serving as WHY and not as HOW.

Once you move beyond Old Skool, skills start to become HOW you do things and not just WHY you can.

The Professional Skills serve much the same purpose but are used more frequently. Again WHY you can do a specific action and not so much HOW.
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[James Maliszewski]

greentongue said:

Again serving as WHY and not as HOW.

That's an excellent distinction! Thank you.

[Finarvyn]

jamesm said:

I'm posting this here, since there isn't a "Philosophy and EPT" forum

While I'm not really interested in converting the entire forum to EPT or anything like that, I would not be adverse to the creation of EPT sub-forums or additional "Philosophy of EPT" if there is a demand for such things.

You raise some interesting points, and in general I tend not to think about games with skill systems as "old school" but I would tend to make EPT an exception because of when it was written. Any game within the first couple years of OD&D's creation has to have at least a small element of "old school" in it, even if its direction isn't the same as OD&D. I say this because it's clear from OD&D stuff like the "hit location" rules in BLACKMOOR that gamers were experimenting with the balance of playability versus realism, and EPT's simple skill system seems to fall into that category.

[James Maliszewski]

admin said:

While I'm not really interested in converting the entire forum to EPT or anything like that, I would not be adverse to the creation of EPT sub-forums or additional "Philosophy of EPT" if there is a demand for such things.

I doubt there would be, honestly. I was simply making the broader point that my post, while arising out of a recent re-read of the EPT rules, had applicability to the wider discussion of OD&D and old school gaming in general.

You raise some interesting points, and in general I tend not to think about games with skill systems as "old school" but I would tend to make EPT an exception because of when it was written. Any game within the first couple years of OD&D's creation has to have at least a small element of "old school" in it, even if its direction isn't the same as OD&D.

True enough. It's more that, as I immerse myself more in the various "old school" communities scattered about the web, I've come to realize and appreciate that skill systems are generally considered the snake in the Garden. I was curious why EPT's version of skills were exempted from this assessment (if indeed they were) and I think Greentongue did a good job of explaining the difference. I think his explanation is a superb one and rather nicely clarifies when a skill system is old school and when it isn't.