Supplement VII: Middle-earth

[Il Male™]

Hi folks!
I'm writing here to let you know that I'm currently working on a Middle-earth supplement for OD&D. My goal is not to proof that D&D works good with Middle-earth, nor to create something close to the original Tolkien world. It will just be a compendium of additional rules and guidelines for referees willing to play in the Middle-earth and use OD&D to do so. So far I have the first section ("Man & Magic") almost done, and working on the second ("Monsters & Treasure"). If you are willing to join the discussion, my blog is theyaqqothlgrimoire.blogspot.com . Or you can write in this very tread, of course!

Bye,
Il Male™

[Finarvyn]

I've been watching your blog ever since you pointed me in that direction (when you asked about my spell list). It's looking interesting so far, and I can't wait to see where you go with this project!

[kesher]

Awesome!

There's certainly been lots of interesting discussion on this board about that very topic!

[bluskreem]

Your link is broken due to the period.
theyaqqothlgrimoire.blogspot.com/

[Koren n'Rhys]

I love these type of supplements. Can't wait to see how it develops!

[leon]

I'm definitely interested about this. Will you change the magic system or make any other changes to the rules to make it play more like Tolkien's works?

And this may be a dumb question, but why Supplement VII? What's V and VI?

[Koren n'Rhys]

I believe Supp. V is Carcosa and Supp. VI is Rob Conley's Majestic Wilderlands (although that was written for S&W).

[leon]

Ah thanks. I knew Carcosa but I didn't know about the The Majestic Wilderlands. It's nice to see that OSR writers keep some sort of consistency to their published works.

[Il Male™]

I will use vancian magic for Wizards, a little modified version for Noldor (like clerical magic but they don't have to prepare their spells ahead of adventuring) and some special powers for certain Chaotic creatures (like Balrogs) called "Gifts of Darkness". I have no interest in changing the original ruleset, I only want to add options. As I've explained in the first post, my goal is to provide a supplement to people willing to play in the Middle-earth using the 3LBBs.

By the way, Koren n'Rhys is right about the enumeration of the supplements ;D

[talysman]

I'm not planning on running Middle-Earth as a D&D setting myself, but I'm interested in seeing your supplement. At the very least, the alternative spells and Gifts of Darkness can provide some magic options in just about any setting.

As for Supplements V and VI, I seem to remember there was another OSR supplement that was labeled either V or VI... and someone was once recommending that every setting + houserules addition to the OD&D rules should be labeled "Supplement V".

[rabindranath72]

Nice idea!

I have run a quite effective ME campaign using the Mentzer rules mostly as-is, with just very few modifications:

1) Demihumans work btb, but Elves can access both MU and Druid/Cleric spells (from Companion/Master set.) Note however that druid/cleric spells are considered two levels higher. Essentially I used the spell lists from the Elves of Alfheim gazetter.

2) No Clerics as PCs. NPCs only, who "share the thoughts of Sauron." Essentially, cultists who worship Sauron/Morgoth.

3) Magic-users are allowed btb. But Wizards (like Gandalf) are not humans, so no arguing about "sword-wielding wizards."

4) In principle, all spells are available. They differ however in the fact that some are "sanctioned," by the Valar, some not. All spells which are explicitly designed to harm people (e.g. magic missile) or to restrain the free will (e.g. charm) are considered Sorcery, and are a tool of the Enemy. Others (e.g. lightning bolt) are not necessarily "evil." Their status depends on their use.

5) I have use the corruption and risk rules from MERP 2nd edition with appropriate tweaks.

6) No plate armor. The heaviest armor type is chain mail.

7) Fighters who are of Numenorean descent (or have traces of elven blood, like prince Imrhail) can become Paladins according to the Companion rules (so they can cure wounds and turn nazgul )

[Il Male™]

Turn Nazgul! That's a great idea I didn't even consider! Nice shot.

Also, why not MUs with swords? They're made of pure awesomeness!

[rabindranath72]

Feb 18, 2011 12:23:19 GMT -6 Il Male™ said:

Turn Nazgul! That's a great idea I didn't even consider! Nice shot.

Also, why not MUs with swords? They're made of pure awesomeness!

The idea is to keep as much of the game rules as possible with minimal alterations. So, the MU without weapons beyond what the rules already assume. But Gandalf is Gandalf

BTW your idea of making Elves essentially clerics is quite nice. Since Nazgul in my campaigns have the same stats as Spectres (as also hinted in OD&D) it makes sense for them to be able to turn them. But since I wanted to make undead like wights and spectres really scary, I decided it was cool if it could be performed only by Paladins.

In my games I have also allowed Elves of 9th level to access the Fighter class options, so they too may become Paladins, and hence turn undead. You need an Elf of at least Attack Rank H to have a slim chance to turn a Nazgul (I equate level with rank after 10th level.) Something only the likes of Elrond would do!

[Il Male™]

I think I have managed to find quite a good solution for turning Nazgul (and the like). I will post something on my blog later, but I think it could work out pretty good. And thank you again rabindranath72, your house rules are very interesting and well written

[rabindranath72]

Feb 20, 2011 7:49:28 GMT -6 Il Male™ said:

I think I have managed to find quite a good solution for turning Nazgul (and the like). I will post something on my blog later, but I think it could work out pretty good. And thank you again rabindranath72, your house rules are very interesting and well written

Thanks!
looking forward to your rules.

Antonio

[iamtim]

Oooh, I think I'm very interested in this.

[Stormcrow]

Feb 17, 2011 21:08:03 GMT -6 talysman said:

As for Supplements V and VI, I seem to remember there was another OSR supplement that was labeled either V or VI... and someone was once recommending that every setting + houserules addition to the OD&D rules should be labeled "Supplement V".

That was me—or at least, I said that once. I find it the height of hubris that one should claim his own document as the Supplement V. Everyone has as much right to call his document Supplement V as anyone else. Hence, the sarcastic suggestion that everyone call his own document Supplement V.

There is no Supplement V. There are simply individually produced documents mocked up in the old TSR trade dress.

[Il Male™]

You're definitely right, but I have another point of view. I think that Carcosa and The Majestic Wilderlands are such great products, that I think they deserve to be considered part of the official enumeration. ;D

[Stormcrow]

Mar 13, 2011 8:26:10 GMT -6 Il Male™ said:

I think that Carcosa and The Majestic Wilderlands are such great products, that I think they deserve to be considered part of the official enumeration.

I do not recognize your right to make that decision.

[geoffrey]

My thoughts regarding OD&D supplements being labelled "Supplement V", "Supplement VI", etc.:

The four OD&D supplements published by TSR in 1975-76 are simply collections of ideas for D&D written by guys in their twenties and thirties who had been playing D&D for a far shorter time than we have (i. e., 4-5 years as opposed to about 30 years). These four supplements are not titled Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They are only game books.

Labelling a supplement with a Roman numeral is simply shorthand for, "Hey, this is a supplement for the 1974 rules. Have fun with it!" ;D

[Il Male™]

Not only that!
It also says "Ehy, I'm number VII, TSR's wrote number I to IV, what about V and VI?" I think it's also a way to tell people who happens to download your work that there are other TWO outstanding products out there ;D

[aldarron]

<shrug> Sequels are sequels and supplements are supplements. Provided no copyrights are violated there's no law nor convention that states they have to be published by any certain party or at any certain time. It's nice, polite, one might say, if the publisher not give thier supplement the same number as an existing one by someone else, but even that hardly matters. Just look at the james bond movies, books etc.

Anywho, Il Male, I'd guess you've been all over the old threads on this board for Tolkien talk, but just in case, there's lots of good ones including this one odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=adventures&action=display&thread=4033&page=4

[Il Male™]

Definitely. Also, as you can imagine, I went mad with tolkien-related posts over this board and dragonsfoot! There's a lot of very cool stuff out there.

[kesher]

You know, this just occurred to me: If I were going to run a ME campaign, I think I'd have MUs actually BE a separate race since, well, they are.

And you'd probably need to hit some sort of ability requirements to play one...

The paladin thing rocks!

[ragnorakk]

That's a pretty neat idea Kesher - make the magic users minor Maia? Very minor I suppose, at first level.

(on Supplement numbering tangent: I remember thinking at the time that Stormcrow made the repeating V suggestion that it was a great idea. All the drama that blew up over Supplement numbering, etc, was tiresome, and I thought that if those who wished to give a supplement number were frozen at V would be a funny solution. Have 27 Supplement V's floating around... cute!)

[thegreyelf]

I labeled Forbidden Lore Supplement VI out of respect for Geoffrey's efforts on Carcosa, but am not arrogant enough to think it should be part of the canon...it was just a way of showing respect for what else was out there. I believe when I did the Age of Conan booklets (and formatted Warriors of Mars for Doc) I just labeled them "Supplement," with no numerical indicator.

[Finarvyn]

Mar 13, 2011 8:26:10 GMT -6 Il Male™ said:

You're definitely right, but I have another point of view. I think that Carcosa and The Majestic Wilderlands are such great products, that I think they deserve to be considered part of the official enumeration. ;D

And don't forget that Rob Kuntz had material collected for his own Supplement V years ago. It never materialized but Rob certainly would lay a solid claim on the "supplement V" title.

That might make Carcosa VI, Majestic Wilderlands VII, and Middle-Earth VIII. Stormcrow's work might fit in there somewhere, making Carcosa VII, MW VIII and ME IX. Who knows where it might end.

[coffee]

I don't think people should get all that upset at someone calling their supplement "# whatever".

As Shakespeare said:

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet

[harami2000]

Mar 14, 2011 14:37:10 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

And don't forget that Rob Kuntz had material collected for his own Supplement V years ago. It never materialized but Rob certainly would lay a solid claim on the "supplement V" title.

Mhmm... I still have Rob's final outline ms., had asked about what cover art he would've liked to see on the supplement and made generally encouraging sounds about that before Carcosa came out.
Looks like it's shelved for good now, though.

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2011 17:28:07 GMT -6 harami2000 said:

Mhmm... I still have Rob's final outline ms

WHAT?!?

Is there any chance at all a brother could get a discreet look at the material?

If not that, are we absolutely certain Rob has killed the project?