Magic Item Identification

[Zulgyan]

Since we don't have an "Identify" spell in the original booklets, how do you guys handle magic item identification?

I'm thinking about having wizards "know" general "magic item lore", and to be able to identify them without the need of a spells. Maybe it can take longer and demand research in the case of rarer magic items.

What do you guys think?

[coffee]

I'm still a big fan of the old "try it and see" school. Potions can be tasted, weapons tried in combat (no good just tapping your buddy with it; you have to really mean it).

The trick is miscellaneous magic stuff; some of that gets tricky.

On the other hand, if it's used against them, they should get some kind of inkling of what it does.

Or, if it's found in a Wizard's lair, he could have made notes.

Anyway, good luck -- I'll be in the player's seat on D&D day (I hope).

[jrients]

I've considered a Lore Roll for items that can't be identified without experimentation. The basic check is your level or less on a d20. Magic-Users can apply that to pretty much any item, clerics to holy-type items, and fighters to famous swords and such. Results would be along the lines of "You recall tales of the Wizard Moleb using a similar emerald-tipped wand to panic the orcs at the Third Battle of Felldawn Pass. The command word can probably be found in one of the songs written about that conflict."

[foster1941]

I think the fun of magic items come from their being used, not from the players holding onto them wondering what they do (and eventually forgetting about them*) so I tend to be pretty liberal with item identifications -- potions can be identified by taste (this is per the rules), scrolls by reading (anybody can read a protection scroll, clerics can read cleric scrolls, mages can identify that a scroll contains magic-user spells, but they'll need to cast read magic to decipher them), weapons and armor's "plus" will become apparent when used in combat (and intelligent swords will simply tell their owner what they're capable of), which leaves only rings, wands and staves, and miscellaneous magic items. All of these should be able to be identified through fairly simple trial and error (and, unlike many DMs, I assume the players to have knowledge of all the monsters and items in vol. II, so they can conduct their trials on that basis -- which isn't to say that every item they find or creature they meet will be something from those lists, but many of them will).

If the players don't want to bother with trial and error, or aren't able to figure out an item's properties that way, or just want to be sure they've got it right and aren't missing anything, they can take items to high-level NPCs (analogous to Greyhawk's "Striped Mage") to get them identified offstage , in exchange for either cash (500 GP/item -- based on the NPC spellcasting costs in AD&D) or service (backed up, surely, by a geas). Once the PCs become high-level themselves they wouldn't need to rely on such NPCs, and can identify items themselves, either immediately via commune and contact higher plane spells, or offstage via some semi-abstract means (1 day of study per property of the item, or something similar).

Note that in Gary Gygax's retro-OD&D mini-campaign of a couple years ago, the players weren't interested in trial & error and he wanted to keep the game moving, so he identified items (except for potions, which still had to be taste-tested) on the spot, and then subtracted appropriate GP, assuming the items were being taken to the Striped Mage in-between sessions. This seems a good compromise for casual play or a one-off session, especially with experienced players (with newbie players letting them do trial & error is part of the fun, but with experienced players it's just a waste of time).

*This was the situation in the last campaign I played in -- every character had at least 1 or 2 items that we knew were magical but had no idea what they did, so we never tried to use them and they just took up space on our character sheets -- "magic ring of ?", "magic cloak of ?", "2 potions of ?" -- and eventually we'd forget we had them at all. This, IMO, was extremely lame, and was made even worse because the DM got annoyed when I'd mentally go through the item-list trying to deduce the item's properties: "okay, we know it's a magical helmet -- do you feel evil?" <DM:> no he doesn't. "can you read my thoughts?" <DM>: no, he can't. "try to send me your thoughts, am I picking up anything?" <DM>: no, you aren't. "OK, here's my spell book -- can you read it?" <annoyed DM>: yes, he can...

[ffilz]

I like Foster's idea. Trial and error does have a place, and if you set up a charge for identification (which I would also make an XP charge - i.e. the gold spent doesn't earn xp), it gives players an incentive to try items out (thus getting whacked by cursed items) but doesn't make it absurd. I generally allow magic weapons and armor to be identified by just having a practice bout, though obviously special plusses would require testing on something actually vulnerable - for those, I might offer a variable price identification, 100 gp if it turns out to just be a basic + weapon/armor, 500 gp if the item has special abilities). I might factor ego into how much an intelligent sword shares (with it sharing little or even misleading info if the sword controlls the PC, and sharing everything if the PC totally dominates the sword).

For potions, I'm inclined to make the players try out potions the first time, but once they know the cherry flavored potions are healing, they can identify with a taste test. I might allow a few potions to have tastes known even to brand new PCs (such as healing potions). Of course a taste is enough to get sucked by a poison potion (and probably the other bad potions). Of course sometimes potions will not have the standard mixings (but there shouldn't be much if any wrong identification - i.e. no cherry flavored potions actually being gaseous form or something).

As a GM, I think there is also a point of making my job easier. If they players have pages of unidentified items, I have too much to keep track of.

Frank

[WSmith]

There is something else that I have occasionally done. Use Read Magic and Read Languages to decipher runes on the items that identify what they do. The only thing with this is that it takes up the slot of another spell, (same as Identify would) of a more offensive or defensive spell. That however, ties in the flavor of Vancian magic I guess. You could also have items decorated with runes of their origin in the host language. Elven bows could have "bane of the wolfbeast" carved into to. The forgings of a dwarven hammer might state "Ogre's ward" or some such. As long as these languages are known by members of the party, identification is that easy.

[ffilz]

WSmith, that's a good idea, and extends the usefullness of those spells. Of course actually knowing the language helps also (thus giving another reason to have dwarves and elves around when they have level limits).

Frank

[WSmith]

ffilz said:

WSmith, that's a good idea, and extends the usefullness of those spells. Of course actually knowing the language helps also (thus giving another reason to have dwarves and elves around when they have level limits).

Frank

Not to mention that it ads to some of the allure of that good old Tolkienism, and Terrain mythology. Timeless elves craft through mysterious magical means items, weapons, and armor. Dwarves smith their weapons and armor in forges and on anvils touched by their gods. As a signature, in their ancestral tongue, the craftsman would place the name or purpose of the item as a sort of signature. Even if you didn't want to emboss the item with ruins, a more simplistic way is to just have a dwarf or elf ID the item through their racial knowledge.

[Zulgyan]

I was having the same thoughts regarding read magic and runes inscribed on items.

[dwayanu]

I'm pretty much with Foster, except that cleric scrolls require Read Magic.

The point about experimentation and guessing being part of the fun for novices is something to remember, should one be lucky enough to get players new to D&D-like RPGs. For old hands at "3E," Palladium, or etc., I'll expedite matters.

[tgamemaster1975]

wsmith said:

There is something else that I have occasionally done. Use Read Magic and Read Languages to decipher runes on the items that identify what they do. The only thing with this is that it takes up the slot of another spell, (same as Identify would) of a more offensive or defensive spell. That however, ties in the flavor of Vancian magic I guess. You could also have items decorated with runes of their origin in the host language. Elven bows could have "bane of the wolfbeast" carved into to. The forgings of a dwarven hammer might state "Ogre's ward" or some such. As long as these languages are known by members of the party, identification is that easy.

Although I largely agree with Foster1941 I tend to do a lot of this too. It often leads to the players naming the items based on some of what they can get off of the item.

[jdrakeh]

coffee said:

I'm still a big fan of the old "try it and see" school. Potions can be tasted, weapons tried in combat (no good just tapping your buddy with it; you have to really mean it).

The trick is miscellaneous magic stuff; some of that gets tricky.

On the other hand, if it's used against them, they should get some kind of inkling of what it does.

Or, if it's found in a Wizard's lair, he could have made notes.

Anyway, good luck -- I'll be in the player's seat on D&D day (I hope).

I agree with all of that. Trial by fire! Or. . . er. . . determination by investigation. Diablo (the video game) offers a great example of how "indentify item" spells can make a game world feel tremendously artificial. I'm glad that such spells don't exist in the original D&D booklets.