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Post by paleologos on Feb 12, 2010 7:55:57 GMT -6
I was having a look at the original D&D character record sheets (the ones that were sold with the goofy cover art) and noticed a line that said "Wisdom Adj."
Is there a Wisdom adjustment somewhere in the OD&D rules, SR, or early TD magazines?
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Post by delta on Feb 12, 2010 11:02:18 GMT -6
Good question.
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Post by Finarvyn on Feb 12, 2010 12:44:00 GMT -6
If you're looking for a "by the book" list of cool stuff that WIS can modify, you are mostly out of luck. Offhand, I only know of two clear cases where WIS modifies anything. From Men & Magic:
1. If wisdom is the "prime requisite" (clerics) wisdom can adjust experience earned.
2. "Wisdom rating will act much as does that for intelligence." It further says for INT that "Intelligence will also affect referees' decisions as to whether or not certain action would be taken, and it allows additional languages to be spoken."
What this means is a little vague. I assume that WIS will not give additional languages, but am not sure what you get for your WIS other than affecting referee's decisions.
I tend to "house rule" certain advantages to Magic-users for high INT, but it's not in Men & Magic. When I do "house rule" it, I allow for Clerics to get a similar advantage for WIS. I've also run games where I use WIS as a psionic defense. Again, not BTB.
It's possible that Greyhawk or other supplements give more specific rules, but I don't have my copies handy at the moment.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 11, 2010 23:55:31 GMT -6
Given that we seem to be drawing a blank regarding by-the-book answers to the original post, I'll follow Fin's lead and help fill in the blank with other ideas...
In my game I have wisdom adjust saving throws and earned XP.
Saving throws are adjusted by +1 for wis 14 or more, and by -1 for wis 7 or less.
Earned XP is adjusted by wisdom exactly as if wisdom was the PC's prime requisite ability score. This is in addition to any adjustment for the PC's actual prime requisite.
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Post by paleologos on Mar 12, 2010 4:58:34 GMT -6
I wonder if this was an example of cross-pollination from AD&D?
The Tom Wham character record sheets were published in 1979, a year after the AD&D Players Handbook came out (which contained the "magical attack adjustment" for high and low Wisdom scores)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 23:30:29 GMT -6
Might also be a case of "The rule book is the way WE play" and that was put in for the benefit of those who had other ways to play.
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Post by Zenopus on Jan 29, 2011 8:03:02 GMT -6
*bump* The Tom Wham character sheets were actually first published in 1977 (Lizard Logo), and thus pre-date all AD&D, with the possible exception of the Monster Manual (Dec 1977). The 1979 date is for the re-print (with Wizard Logo). www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/character.htmlThis page has a scan of the actual sheet showing the "Wisdom Adj", although it's from the 1979 re-print. But I don't recall hearing of any printing differences for the sheets (1977 vs 1979). Edit: AD&D was definitely in development in mid-1977 (Holmes Basic came out mid-77 with references to AD&D), so I would guess this represents a new rule that was being developed for AD&D. These were the only character sheets sold by TSR at the time so they may have wanted them as "current" as possible. AD&D-specific characters sheets weren't available until 1979. |
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Post by paleologos on Apr 16, 2011 13:35:41 GMT -6
The more I think about it, the more I think the Wisdom Adj. must refer to the modifier as listed in the AD&D 1e Player's Handbook.
I was flipping through my old tattered copy a while ago, and noticed that among all of the ability score modifiers, only the Wisdom adjustment had an asterisk beside it with a caption to explain what it was.
I wonder if that's because all of the other ability score modifiers were ported over from OD&D, but a "Wisdom adjustment" was the only new thing that merited a bit of explanation...
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Post by Zenopus on Apr 17, 2011 8:50:55 GMT -6
I see what you are referring to, but the Dex, Con and Char tables also have notes to explain the adjustments in the right hand columns. They just aren't asterisked - instead there's a section titled "Notes regarding ... Table I:" It seems more like a formatting inconsistency. But I can confirm now that the 1977 PC sheets definitely had the Wisdom Adj line. In late Feb, there was some discussion of these sheets in the Interesting Items thread on the Acaeum, and a member put up links to scans of the cover, front and back of the 1977 (orange) and 1979 (yellow) PC sheets (in this post; unfortunately the links are no longer valid). I compared the sheets and there are no differences other than the logos (Lizard vs Wizard) and the trademark indications. The 1979 sheet even retains the 1977 copyright date. |
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Post by howandwhy99 on Apr 21, 2011 13:23:22 GMT -6
Is it possible the Wis Adj modifier was added in a The Dragon article? Something prior to '79? As Zenopus points out it looks like it was in the works for some time prior to the PHB printing.
My thinking on Wisdom is it was the primary Cleric ability score. It works like INT for M-U's in determining castable spell level.
I think, like INT, it is far more descriptive of NPC stats than PC though. INT being the volume of the mind map the NPC holds and WIS being the degree of accuracy of such.
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Post by paleologos on Apr 21, 2011 16:41:54 GMT -6
Is it possible the Wis Adj modifier was added in a The Dragon article? Something prior to '79? As Zenopus points out it looks like it was in the works for some time prior to the PHB printing. I've pretty much scoured the pre-'79 TD (and even Strategic Review) and can find nothing. I'm favouring the AD&D 1e Wis Adj as an unpublished in-house rule that made its way onto the Tom Wham character records...wish we could ask an old-timer |
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Post by coffee on Apr 21, 2011 19:39:01 GMT -6
...wish we could ask an old-timer Tim Kask would have been there at the time -- and he has a Q & A thread over at Dragonsfoot. You could ask him. |
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Post by Zenopus on Dec 11, 2012 22:12:51 GMT -6
The Warlock Supplement (1975) has some interesting Wis adjustments, that appear to apply only to Clerics:
Wisdom
3 = -3 Pips from each die of healing
4-5 = -2 Pips from each
6-8 = - 1 Pip from each die
9-12 = No bonus or penalty
13-17 = +1/2 Pip per die of healing
18 or more = +1 Pip per die
Wisdom of 15 or more = +1 level for dispelling undead, +5% chance of dispelling a demon
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Post by waysoftheearth on Dec 12, 2012 0:35:14 GMT -6
Great find Zenopus!
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Dec 12, 2012 8:15:18 GMT -6
The Warlock Supplement (1975).... Who published this and where might I find it? |
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Post by Zenopus on Dec 12, 2012 14:30:36 GMT -6
The Warlock Supplement (1975).... Who published this and where might I find it? Sean, the original Warlock was written by students at Caltech and published as the bulk of Spartan Simulation Gaming Journal #9, Aug 1975. This comes up on Ebay a few times a year, with prices ranging from $30-60 depending on how many folks are interested at any one time. It was later republished as the Complete Warlock in 1978, but with many changes and additions. Later versions are also available in places on the internet, with many more changes. I like the original version the best as it is closest to OD&D. For more an overview, see here: zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/2012/02/warlock-or-how-to-play-d-without.html |
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Post by runequester on Dec 19, 2012 12:28:59 GMT -6
Its probably worth noting that for anything coming out of TSR, various parts of AD&D would have been in use as they were developed and designed, well before the books were published. For us, it seems like clear demarcation between oD&D and aD&D, but from interviews and recollections people have written about, that was almost certainly not the case.
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 20, 2013 20:50:50 GMT -6
A large scan of the blue version of the 1977 character sheet was posted on the Acaeum today, and I noticed another proto-AD&D quirk of these OD&D sheets: the armor classes go from AC2 to AC10 rather than AC9. |
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Post by ffilz on Sept 22, 2013 7:06:56 GMT -6
Another AD&Dism, space required and speed factor for weapons.
Frank
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 23, 2013 20:42:37 GMT -6
Another AD&Dism, space required and speed factor for weapons. Good catch! There is a rudimentary "space required" in Greyhawk, pg 15, but speed factor is definitely AD&D. |
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