Push/Pull Rules for OD&D with Miniatures

[chronoplasm]

Fighters have additional options available to them in combat when playing with miniatures on a map.
When making a melee attack against an enemy, you have the option of declaring the attack a 'push' or 'pull' attack.

Push
If your attack successfully hits after declaring 'push', you may roll twice for damage, and keep the higher of the two rolls.
If the lower of the two rolls scored 3 or higher however, the push attempt is successful.
If the push attempt is successful, you may move the enemy figure one inch away from your figure, or two inches when using a pole-arm.
You then have the option of moving into the space that the pushed enemy vacated.

Too complicated?

[coffee]

It doesn't seem to be too complicated, but I have to ask: Is there any downside, like a minus to hit? Otherwise, I can't see ever not using this, which might make it too powerful.

I haven't really thought it through, mind you; this is just my initial reaction.

[chronoplasm]

Oct 13, 2009 11:13:11 GMT -6 coffee said:

It doesn't seem to be too complicated, but I have to ask: Is there any downside, like a minus to hit? Otherwise, I can't see ever not using this, which might make it too powerful.

I haven't really thought it through, mind you; this is just my initial reaction.

Hmmm... Maybe instead of a minus to hit, how about a minus to damage?

[coffee]

I dunno -- take the higher of the two rolls for damage, but then take a minus? Then I don't know if I'd ever use it.

Not trying to shoot you down, you know. These are just the thoughts that pop up when I read stuff.

Also: Why is this only for when you use miniatures? Couldn't you push someone when you're not using miniatures? Just asking.

[chronoplasm]

Oct 13, 2009 11:52:21 GMT -6 coffee said:

Also: Why is this only for when you use miniatures? Couldn't you push someone when you're not using miniatures? Just asking.

I like the robust use of minis in 4E and I was thinking it might be fun to try and figure out how I would port some of that stuff over to OD&D.
Just for fun.
I might be overthinking things though.

[coffee]

What you could do, then, is let the players tell you what they want to do, and then adjudicate what happens based on logic, reason, common sense and knowledge. That's the old school way! Rulings, not rules -- rules just get exploited, whereas rulings let the players think they're getting away with something. (Always let them think they're getting away with something. It's a secret thrill.)

[billhooks]

In reference to the original post, I would suggest having the fighter roll both damage dice and then letting the *defender* choose to either take the higher amount of damage and hold fast, or take the lower and fall back. Alternately, just have the fighter push and do half damage on a successful push attempt.

That said, I tend to agree with coffee's last post when it comes to OD&D.

[waysoftheearth]

Great idea Billhooks

The general issue with these kinds of things is that they tend to get out of hand when you start accounting for PC size versus monster size (can my halfling fighter really push back an Ogre? Or an Iron Golem? Or a Balrog?), advantageous circumstances, wind direction and so on.

I guess it depends upon just how detailed you like your combat simulation to be, but for me at least, in the end, Coffee's suggestion really is the "catch all" way to go.

[chronoplasm]

It's more of a self-indulgent thing than something I actually intend to use in a game. I like thinking about these sorts of game structures because it's fun.
But yeah, I think half damage and some forced movement would be a better way to go about it.

[parmstrong]

If you want to codify something, I think that Chainmail has it that if you roll the exact number you need to hit you push the enemy back. You could just use the same idea with the D&D attack matrices.