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Post by thegreyelf on Sept 10, 2009 7:28:53 GMT -6
On Page 24 of UWA we see the Angry Villager Rule, which reads as follows: "Anyone who has viewed a horror movie is aware of how dangerous angry villagers are. Whenever the referee finds that some player has committed an unforgiveable [sic] outrage this rule can be invoked to harass the offender into line. Within the realm of angry villagers are thieves from the "thieves' quarter", city watches and militia, etc. Also possible is the insertion of some character like Conan to bring matters into line." I find this one of the most intriguing passages in the book. Specifically, what exactly is the rule? I mean, clearly it's referring to a torch-and-pitchfork-wielding mob. BUT...a suggestion to throw a mob in to institute consequences for poor in-game behavior is not unto itself a rule. It's more general DM advice. One does not simply "invoke" a mob and expect the problem to go away. I mean, if Dave's character--the local countess, a lesbian black witch who has decided bathing in the blood of virgin girls is her key to eternal youth--begins kidnapping young girls from all over the county and systematically murdering and exsanguinating the poor girls, the DM saying, "I'm invoking the Angry Villager Rule" won't harass the countess in line. On the other hand, the DM saying, "a torch wielding mob shows up at the gate demanding your head" is not really invoking a rule. So...is this just very poor wording on EGG's part? Or is there an actual "rule" that's missing from the text? If there is not an actual rule, should there be? Part of me says "no," just because I can see a great deal of fun in the above scenario as the Countess (let's call her Erszebet, just for fun  ) tries to escape her castle as the angry mob led by Jim's character, the local Palatine (let's name him Thurzo, just for the heck of it) storms the battlements eager to see her hung from a gibbet. But the game-tinker in me thinks it might be a wholly different kind of fun to actually have an Angry Villager Rule to invoke. But how would such a thing work? What would it do to the character against whom it is invoked? Food for thought. Discuss! |
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Post by badger2305 on Sept 10, 2009 7:48:55 GMT -6
I think it really is a kind of advice - not unlike the rules for wilderness adventuring, it's a little less clear than the relatively more understandable rules for dungeon-crawling.
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Post by coffee on Sept 10, 2009 9:07:56 GMT -6
I think it's both advice and a very, very general rule: Actions have consequences.
Even very bright players forget this one, sometimes.
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Post by evreaux on Sept 10, 2009 12:23:01 GMT -6
Hmm. I always interpreted it as simply meaning "even high-level PCs shouldn't think they can take on an angry, 1000-person mob with torches and pitchforks." And if they do something that puts them in that position--murdering the mayor in the town square, setting fire to a city district in broad daylight, waltzing into their barony's plaza and announcing that all taxes are quintupled, etc.--they are going to pay a heavy price, even if there isn't a handy dragon or black knight in the neighborhood.
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Post by thegreyelf on Sept 10, 2009 12:34:20 GMT -6
I think that's the way most of us read it...but the wording of the passage is curious.
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Post by James Maliszewski on Sept 10, 2009 14:30:46 GMT -6
I think Gary meant rule in the dramatic sense. That is, in literature and movies and TV shows, if the local bigwig starts "misbehaving" or if outsiders show up and cause unwelcome trouble, the townsfolk invariably take matters into their own hands. So, it's not a rule in the sense of a game rule. Rather it's a rule for many of the genres from which OD&D took its inspirations.
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Post by geoffrey on Sept 10, 2009 15:26:34 GMT -6
James Raggi (here: lotfp.blogspot.com/2009/02/i-played-and-rulesdungeon-design.html ) has some insights regarding the Angry Villager Rule: 'Now, I'm using original booklets and Chainmail combat, so no variable damage (although I have small creatures, daggers, and hand axes do 1/2d6 instead of 1d6), no variable hit dice, and monsters get one attack per round standard. With d6 standard (with only monsters like ogres, giants, and efreet getting bonus damage) I decided not to give everything bonus damage. d6 standard unless it's very unusual circumstances. I also give full hit points at first level (but NPC hirelings are 0 level get 4-6hp... figure the PCs wouldn't hire complete wimp no-hopers, right?) and rule that 0 hp means unconscious, negative hp equals death. So even a heavy-hitting monster can't kill any PC with one shot. Just knock him unconscious (and not even that for the fighting men or dwarves or those with a constitution bonus). Just my way of not making the game a wholesale slaughter... 'This does mean that even normal men ganging up on the largest creature (if it doesn't have a special attack) is going to win if they're willing to take a few casualties. And I like that. I never liked having classes NPCs in every village and I wondered then how any village could possibly survive against even a low hit die creature in the wild. Every farmer would be eaten by an ankheg, etc. But this "gang up" thing makes sense. OD&D has an "angry villagers" rule, but I think the rules as I'm interpreting them create their own Angry Mob option. Getting a few dozen villagers with pitchforks and torches and heading up to talk to the evil wizard and his monstrous creation might not be an insane thing to do after all...' |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2009 20:30:47 GMT -6
The Angry Villager Rule is one my favorite passages in OD&D.
It reminds me of the Swords of Lankhmar where Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are greeted at the gates by their "old friends".
Would be kinda cool to have something like a saving throw vs. Angry Villagers or chart to roll on when players do something that would offend the locals. Not really necessary but would still be fun.
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Post by coffee on Sept 10, 2009 23:34:00 GMT -6
Hey, random tables are always fun! We could make one of those. Here are a couple of results:
A - Tarred and Feathered
B - Tarred and Chickened (similar, but using whole chickens -- much messier, noisier, and you get pecking damage also).
(That's all I can think of right now -- the A and B stand in for die rolls on the final table.)
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Post by thegreyelf on Sept 11, 2009 6:46:20 GMT -6
Hah. I like the random table idea. Like most of you I suspect (as James eloquently put it) that the passage is speaking dramatically, not mechanically. It's just that I found the way it is worded, in the context of a game, intriguing. And I'm a bit disappointed nobody was amused by my example . |
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Post by irdaranger on Oct 1, 2009 15:25:25 GMT -6
I think it's a "Rule" of how to DM, and a good one. D&D needs more Rules like that.
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Post by Random on Oct 1, 2009 15:57:46 GMT -6
Angry Villager Response Chart (1d6 and %)
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1: Tarred and Feathered (10% of Chickening Instead)
2: Stripped and Beaten (25% to Death)
3: Hanged (15% also Drawn and Quartered)
4: Thrown in a Dungeon (35% Throwing Away the Key)
5: Simply Killed (20% with Preliminary Torturing)
6: Driven Out of Town (75% Pelted by Vegetables)
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Post by coffee on Oct 1, 2009 16:19:12 GMT -6
Angry Villager Response Chart (1d6 and %) ------------------------------------------------------- 1: Tarred and Feathered (10% of Chickening Instead) 2: Stripped and Beaten (25% to Death) 3: Hanged (15% also Drawn and Quartered) 4: Thrown in a Dungeon (35% Throwing Away the Key) 5: Simply Killed (20% with Preliminary Torturing) 6: Driven Out of Town (75% Pelted by Vegetables) This definitely needs to go in Fight On! Cal can use it to fill out the bottom of a page, should something come up short. Have an exalt for taking up the gauntlet. |
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Post by Random on Oct 1, 2009 18:29:36 GMT -6
Thanks. I was just trying to finish the thought you guys had going!
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Post by chgowiz on Oct 2, 2009 7:33:03 GMT -6
Angry Villager Response Chart (1d6 and %) ------------------------------------------------------- 1: Tarred and Feathered (10% of Chickening Instead) 2: Stripped and Beaten (25% to Death) 3: Hanged (15% also Drawn and Quartered) 4: Thrown in a Dungeon (35% Throwing Away the Key) 5: Simply Killed (20% with Preliminary Torturing) 6: Driven Out of Town (75% Pelted by Vegetables) Make it a d8...  More dice are better! 7: Interviewed by strange constable with fake arm (45% of losing 1d100*10 gp in game of darts) 8: Town descends into days of rioting (an ugly affair) with subsequent loss of income for the month (60% chance of town requiring expenditures to make repairs) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2009 8:55:36 GMT -6
7: Interviewed by strange constable with fake arm (45% of losing 1d100*10 gp in game of darts) You forgot about the corny German accent!  |
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Post by chgowiz on Oct 2, 2009 13:29:02 GMT -6
7: Interviewed by strange constable with fake arm (45% of losing 1d100*10 gp in game of darts) You forgot about the corny German accent! We can't get TOO specific - each campaign may have a different strange constable  |
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Post by Random on Oct 2, 2009 13:52:09 GMT -6
Chgowiz, #8 doesn't specify what happens to the PCs. They are the ones the villagers are angry with, so the riot should end shortly after they trounce the PCs, right?
Perhaps...
8. Bounty on Head (50% Advertised Throughout the "Kingdom")
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Post by simrion on Oct 2, 2009 14:58:34 GMT -6
You forgot about the corny German accent! We can't get TOO specific - each campaign may have a different strange constable He should have Burning Hands once per day as a special power too |
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Post by chronoplasm on Oct 2, 2009 16:38:25 GMT -6
Angry Villager Response Chart (1d6 and %) ------------------------------------------------------- 1: Tarred and Feathered (10% of Chickening Instead) 2: Stripped and Beaten (25% to Death) 3: Hanged (15% also Drawn and Quartered) 4: Thrown in a Dungeon (35% Throwing Away the Key) 5: Simply Killed (20% with Preliminary Torturing) 6: Driven Out of Town (75% Pelted by Vegetables) Make it a d8... More dice are better! 7: Interviewed by strange constable with fake arm (45% of losing 1d100*10 gp in game of darts) 8: Town descends into days of rioting (an ugly affair) with subsequent loss of income for the month (60% chance of town requiring expenditures to make repairs) Make it a d10! 9: The angry villagers hire a different group of heroic adventurers to stop you. There is a 15% chance that the villagers will decide that a dragon or an archlich is a lesser evil compared to you. There is a 5% chance that the gods themselves will send down a champion to destroy you. 10: The village bard writes a scathing poem about you. |
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Post by chgowiz on Oct 3, 2009 10:35:00 GMT -6
Chgowiz, #8 doesn't specify what happens to the PCs. They are the ones the villagers are angry with, so the riot should end shortly after they trounce the PCs, right? Perhaps... 8. Bounty on Head (50% Advertised Throughout the "Kingdom") Oh ... the part about the PCs having to pay for the village to be repaired! Nothing really annoys PCs more than having to give up their *cough* hard earned *cough* gold for repairing stuff that isn't theirs! |
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Post by coffee on Oct 3, 2009 13:11:47 GMT -6
Up to 10 already! I've created a monster.
*sniff* I'm so happy!
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Post by abecross on Oct 3, 2009 18:09:40 GMT -6
11. Politicians play on Angry Villager sympathies and use the PC/Party and other adventuring types as scapegoats for the deterioration of all moral fiber in the area.
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Post by coffee on Oct 3, 2009 19:54:22 GMT -6
12. Leaders in the Church play on Angry Villager sympathies and use the PC/Party and other adventuring types as scapegoats for the deterioration of all moral fiber in the area.
(Sorry to swipe, I just saw a trend going there...)
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Post by irdaranger on Oct 8, 2009 15:17:23 GMT -6
13. The mob defuses after a couple hours and threatening looks from the PCs, but local Thief(ves) realize that the mob being out means empty homes & distracted constabulary; go on successful crime spree (roll d4 for race of Thief: 1-2, Halfling, 3, Gnome, 4, Human). (50% chance PCs are blamed).
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Post by billhooks on Oct 8, 2009 17:20:05 GMT -6
14. Torch-wielding villagers, deranged with fury, set things on fire. PCs in center of conflagration. Ask them what they do now.
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Post by snorri on Oct 8, 2009 17:46:12 GMT -6
15. A very well known Barbarian meets the PC's and thinks they're minions of some stygian sorcerer. (allmost btb!)
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Post by chgowiz on Oct 9, 2009 8:42:10 GMT -6
16. Town decides to turn to Evil and appeals to nastiest Frog God to intercede. God says "Yes." (45% chance player's stronghold is designated Ground Zero for Frog God's arrival.)
NOTE TO CALITHENA - almost to 20... we might make it for FO #7!
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Post by Random on Oct 9, 2009 12:57:47 GMT -6
17. The local villagers seem very angry, but decide to let it brew for a while. Increase % chances of additional or more creative punishment on subsequent rolls by 20%.
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Post by Random on Oct 9, 2009 13:11:51 GMT -6
Also, I would suggest combining 11 and 12 into:
Politicians play on Angry Villager sympathies and use the PC/Party and other adventuring types as scapegoats for the deterioration of all moral fiber in the area. (50% Leaders in the Church do this instead.)
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) tries to escape her castle as the angry mob led by Jim's character, the local Palatine (let's name him Thurzo, just for the heck of it) storms the battlements eager to see her hung from a gibbet. 
More dice are better!
