How to replace the cleric class?

[urban]

Lets say that...
1. You dont want two none-race class able to cast spells so you delete the Cleric and fuse its spell list with the Magic Users;
2. You feel that the remaining two non-race option (FM, MU) is not enough, BUT;
3. You want only one class which can fight well, which can fight without restrictions (Fighting Man);
4. You want something which uses as much Clerics stats (XP/HD/ST etc.) as possible;
5. You dont want specialist fighters and wizards, for example assasins, monks and druids;
6. You want to run a campaign with a focus on player-skills in dungeon crawling so no Greyhawk thieves (= dungeon-expert + dirty light armor fighter)!!!

Can you make up a new class which...
- Uses Cleric stats as much as possible;
- Is not a specialist version of the other ones;
- Has its sovereign field/role in dungeon crawling;
- Interesting enough to occasionally be picked by players???

[greyharp]

Try David "Sham" Bowman's Delver class from Fight On! #4:

Delvers are a class of characters devoted to furthering the exploration and plundering of the underworld. Delvers explore and plunder; they are not trained in the more common skills of melee or magic, nor are they devotees of any particular faith other than personal gain. Their kind is more often than not encountered in regions dominated by entrances to the dismal depths which entice the fortune-seeking. A party in such an area which lacks a Delver amongst their ranks may wish to hire one into service. It is recommended that they be Men or Dwarves, with the latter limited to the 8th level of advancement.

Delvers use priestly experience, hit dice, attack and saving throw tables, with a bonus of +1 on any save involving a trap. They are limited to small weapons and light armor, and may not use shields. A Delver using any prohibited equipment loses all of the class modifiers detailed here. The skills of a Delver are as follows:

+1 Search (for checks on finding traps or secret doors)
+1 Hear Noise
+1 Open Doors (including rolls to force or jimmy locks)
+2 Spring Trap (in other words, 4 in 6, unless the Delver
specifies that he or she is actively trying to avoid traps)
+2 Avoid Trap
(Optional) Strike from Behind Ability

Delvers gain an additional +1 to a dungeon task of their choice at each level after the first. This must be a different task at each level.

To understand some of the mechanics of this, you'd have to read the whole article "Delvers Delve".

[chronoplasm]

Well... here's an idea I've been pondering for a while. I'm new to OD&D though, so I'm not entirely sure how to stat this up and balance it.
Here's the idea though:

Beast: Beasts are a wild and inhuman class of characters, but they may nevertheless accompany more civilized characters on their journey as guides or protectors. When Beasts reach the top level, they may opt to build their own den and become the Alpha male/female of a pack.
Beasts can not be Men.
Beasts can not wield weapons or armor. However, when you create your character, you may choose to have your character's unnarmed attack count as either a dagger or a mace. This decision must remain throughout your character's lifetime.
Beasts use the Cleric's experience, hit dice, attack, and saving throw tables.
Beasts cast spells as though they were Clerics, but there are certain additional spells they can learn only by eating the flesh of certain monsters. A Beast may, for example, eat the meat of a Red Dragon to make the Fire Breath 5th level spell available.

Elfin Beasts
Elves can choose to begin as Beasts. If they do, they may choose either Fighting-Man or Magic-User as a second class. Elves may switch back and forth between Beast and their second chosen class whenever they choose, from adventure to adventure, but not during the course of a single game.

[urban]

Thank you for your suggestion, greyharp! The idea of the Delver is cool and I was tinkering with it but I realised that I want non-race classes which abilities are not about dungeoning. The FM can fight the encounters but not the dungeon; the MU can cast spells but these spells still cant take out the player skillsfrom dungeoning. Maybe its the same with the Delver but I think this class is better for an NPC than a PC...

The Beast - even if its uses cleric magic - is awesome, chronoplasm! I think I will try to mix its eating abilities with my troglodite race-class.

[chronoplasm]

Well I went with cleric spells because there's a lot of nature magic stuff in there, like Speak with Animals.
The magic eating thing was kind of tacked on as an afterthought, but now I think I want to explore it a bit more thouroughly.
Shall I start a new thread to discuss the Beast class?

[waysoftheearth]

Ed Greenwood's Beastmaster class (described in Dragon 119) may be suitable with some tweaking, depending upon your setting/dungeon. If you like I can post the full details.

It's more-or-less a druid/ranger/rogue type with a collection of animal-, wilderness-, improved senses-, sneaky- related spell-like powers. It wouldn't take much to convert it from the AD&D thief-like definition supplied, to a more OD&D format.

Edit: fixed typo

[waysoftheearth]

Another interesting option might be Tom Moldvay's Taltos (from Dragon issue 247). It's written for 3E, but wouldn't take much to back-port to OD&D.

The class concept is a "chosen one", marked by the ancestors or the spirits with some disfigurement -- different coloured eyes, webbed toes, six fingers, distinctive birthmark etc. -- but given certain gifts (spell-like powers) with which to accomplish some greater task.

The Taltos may be revered, feared, or hated depending upon the culture -- or the mark he bears. Depending upon your setting, this concept might be a fine alternative to the standard cleric.

[urban]

Chronoplasm, your Beast is pretty much a version of cleric so feel free to elaborate your ideas here. It sounds really exciting!

[chronoplasm]

OK.

Beast Spells
Beasts learn new spells by eating monsters. They are only able to eat living monsters of organic substance. Beasts cannot eat any undead, nor can they eat elementals or nonflesh golems.
Some of your spells may allow you to grow natural weapons. You are proficient with these. For every three levels you have attained, your natural weapons gain a +1 enchantment bonus.

...here's just a couple of ideas...

Spiked Tail
Eat: Manticore
You grow a spiked tail similar to that of a Manticore with 4-24 iron spikes. It counts as both a natural flail and a natural crossbow that can shoot up to 6 spikes at a time. The tail retracts when all spikes are depleted.

Regeneration
Eat: Troll
You regain 3 hit points each turn. This effect lasts for 1-6 turns, or until you are burned with fire or acid.

[doc]

I run a very pulp-fantasy inspired game and I have never been fond of the cleric archetype in fantasy, though I realize the need for it's abilities.

In my game the cleric has been replaced with the Witch Hunter, a mysterious and sometimes unsavory character that has spent his life fighting the forces of chaos and evil.

The Witch Hunter is able to repel, and sometimes even destroy, the forces of the Undead not through the power of faith, but rather by the obtaining a keen knowledge of the forces of evil and their weaknesses. At higher levels they can attempt to repel demons and devils as well. The hunters also have power over their mortal enemies, being able to cause witches (defined in this context as chaotic spellcasters) to flee in fear on a successful roll.

A Witch Hunter can heal damage both physical and magical, not through spells, but through alchemy. He can be considered to have access to all the normal types of healing and curing spells.

The Witch Hunter does not have access to any clerical abilities other than turning and healing, as all true magic is the domain of the witch and the sorcerer, which a Witch Hunter will not deign to use.

Although a Witch Hunter can use any weapon, he is restricted to leather armor and cannot use a shield. He attacks and saves as a cleric, though with a +2 to save vs. spells.

It should go without saying, but a Witch Hunter can only be Lawful in alignment.

Doc

[greyharp]

In my next campaign I have decided to dump the Cleric class altogether, do the old Sorcerer combined Magic-User/Cleric spell list thing (minus healing spells) and give the remaining clerical spell list (minus offensive spells) to the Elf. So many of the clerical spells fit like a hand in a glove with the Elf/nature cliche. Should be interesting.

[irdaranger]

Beast-Hunter

Prime: Wis
Armor: max chainmail + shield
Weapons: Cleric + daggers, bows, crossbows

Class Abilities:
1. Track as Ranger.
2. Can identify monsters by their lair, spore or tracks.
3. Double DEX bonus to-hit with missile weapons.
4. +1 dmg/level vs. Vermin and Beasts
5. Can "Turn Beasts" to calm them down or trick them into wandering off. Use Turn Undead rules.

4 and 5 do not work on creatures with humanoid or greater INT.