There and back again?

[Finarvyn]

I get the impression that in the oldest days characters started off at the entrance of a dungeon, delved as deep as they felt they could with resources availible, and then fought their way back out until they reached the entrance again.

Next time, go back and go deeper.

Nowadays, my players seem to have this "keep going until the end" mentality where they don't really plan to save enough spells and hit points to fight back to the start. They just keep going as far as they can, then plan on holing up somewhere and resting until they can get underway again.

How do you run your dungeons?

[grodog]

Sleeping in the dungeons can be very, very dangerous, especially if PCs are basically out of resources by the time they decide to do so. Finding an out-of-the-way, secure place to hole-up in not easy, and there are LOTS of wandering monster rolls to make them wish they'd fled to the surface instead....

[evreaux]

My crew has spent exactly one night inside the dungeon, and that was because they were depleted, badly wounded, and cut off from escape. Otherwise, during the entire course of the campaign (almost 11 months now, down onto level 7), they have retreated after each delve, resting up and gaining XP from their loot either in their semi-permanent camp or in the nearby town. In general, I heavily discourage staying overnight inside the dungeon, although there are a few areas where it's safe to do so (e.g., most notably, my arena/gambling den on level 6 is run by an enterprising gang of thieves, and an overpriced hostel and eating hall may be found there--although you'd better stay on your toes and set a watch, even inside the room. . . ).

I tried facilitating this approach both explicitly in my players' introduction ("don't bite off more than you can chew and remember you may have to fight your way back out") and implicitly in my design--to wit, my dungeon has a large central shaft that plunges down into the ground, with a spiral staircase clinging to the sides and portals opening onto various (but not all) levels. Provided the party is close to one of those points of exit, they can head back up to the surface relatively quickly, although encounters there can be dicey, as the pit bottoms out at level 10 and there's no telling what sort of wandering monsters you might encounter on the stairs. Could be a goblin, could be a hell hound, could be a black pudding.

My group is pretty good about remembering the axiom that first priority is always monitoring the escape route. If things get ugly, if hit point and spells run low, if the map get screwy or the dungeon level is playing with their heads, heading out becomes the first order of business.

[crimhthanthegreat]

My players only stay overnight in a dungeon in two situations (the vast majority the time) since they normally will try to get back out at all costs. If they become trapped and can not get out then they try to find a spot were they can survive and win out, this leads to a lot of our TPK's. The other situation is were they planned ahead for an extended visit to the dungeon and are well equipped for healing, and every other aspect. In these events they are sometimes down for over a week. Since we run a very deadly campaign this is very risky since, the best laid plans and the most prepared parties can sometimes wind up on the short end of the stick.

[murquhart72]

admin said:

Nowadays, my players seem to have this "keep going until the end" mentality where they don't really plan to save enough spells and hit points to fight back to the start. They just keep going as far as they can, then plan on holing up somewhere and resting until they can get underway again.

I've seen this mentality before and it saddens me. It's very foolish and is encouraged by "clear the level, move on to the next" style of computer gaming. Anyone trying that in my campaign will find themselves Darwined out of a character

[tgamemaster1975]

My players are very good at taking the money and running. They don't stay in harms way any longer than they have to. They are more into short forays instead of long extended expiditions.

[serendipity]

(sigh) My group does come up for air, but only to purchase even more powerful magical items. (The princess will just have to wait to be rescued; I must have a bigger sword!) When no one has anything new to purchase, the group usually wants to tough it out, finding a place to defend if possible and setting up watch while some of us sleep. If the odds are obviously way against us--they know we're here and they're gathering forces against us-- the group will retreat. Remember, though, we're not usually in a traditional dungeon, so it's generally not impossible to get back out if we need to.

Part of this has to do with the fact that we have a couple quite young members who aren't used to the idea that there may be some things in there which we aren't "meant" to be able to kill. I think this is--as themattjon mentioned--due to the computer games they grew up on, where there is always a way to do it, you just have to think how. Actually, now that I think about it, I would have to add that two of our more middling-aged sorts are much worse about that than our youngsters are.

[meepo]

Blame computer games. Clear the level, indeed!!

[crimhthanthegreat]

serendipity said:

(sigh) My group does come up for air, but only to purchase even more powerful magical items. (The princess will just have to wait to be rescued; I must have a bigger sword!) When no one has anything new to purchase, the group usually wants to tough it out, finding a place to defend if possible and setting up watch while some of us sleep. If the odds are obviously way against us--they know we're here and they're gathering forces against us-- the group will retreat. Remember, though, we're not usually in a traditional dungeon, so it's generally not impossible to get back out if we need to.

Part of this has to do with the fact that we have a couple quite young members who aren't used to the idea that there may be some things in there which we aren't "meant" to be able to kill. I think this is--as themattjon mentioned--due to the computer games they grew up on, where there is always a way to do it, you just have to think how. Actually, now that I think about it, I would have to add that two of our more middling-aged sorts are much worse about that than our youngsters are.

You can not except in extremely and I do mean extremely rare situations buy magic items such as swords and armor IMC. There may be times when a favor or service of great significance has been done an NPC highlevel magic user or a dwarf clan or something of the sort so that something is made or enchanted. But this is rare. Now healing potions and the like can be "bought" for a generous donation to a religious body.

[Finarvyn]

meepo said:

Blame computer games. Clear the level, indeed!!

I was running my group through the AD&D GDQ modules (actually, this will take a really long time to complete) and one of the players made a comment about how deadly the modle was supposed to be.

Turns out that he had played in G1 before and his group were "clear the level" types. No wonder they kept dying.

My current group went through G1 in a more objective-minded strategy, so once they accomplished their goal they moved on to G2. Sure, they missed out on some of the loot hidden in the module but they also missed out on some nasties that might have killed the whole party.

[coffee]

I haven't run D&D in ages, but I like the idea of running for the surface when resources start getting low.

First of all, it helps keep the characters alive.

Second, the Magic-Users don't have to take their valuable spell books into the dungeon.

And third, if everyone is back in town at the end of a session, it makes continuity easier the next time when (almost inevitably) someone can't make it.

[thorswulf]

I have played in those clear the level games. They work better with later editions of the game rules, that let min/max munchkins create uber-PCs. Not my cup of tea, but sometimes it can be fun. I think greed gets in the way of clear thinking. This is also a by blow of the electronic rpg. GOOD D&D DUNGEONS DON'T HAVE SAVE POINTS, OR RE-UP HIT POINTS! Maybe the trick is explaining that exploring a dungeon is like planning to rob a bank. Go in, get what you can with the least effort, and get out. Maybe a Commando raid is a good example to. Again, the wargaming roots shine through the rules.