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Post by doublejig2 on Jun 24, 2023 0:47:10 GMT -6
In the campaign I'm running, the players are starting to really flex their adventures in combat in part because in prior campaigns they have faced most monsters before and have strategies for battling them. Sure, it's good for nostalgia but hard on play balance. Rather than upping the encounter levels, I chose to attack them with mystery, and I purchased Tome of Horrors Complete SW. Don't know why it took me so long to augment the campaign's monster line up. I see myself collecting other monster compendium in the future. Let's see the party swagger when they encounter monsters they have never seen. Of course I leave a horde of level draining wights or wraiths on the table if char levels get out of hand.  Any suggestions for other SW or AD&D monster tomes? |
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Post by tombowings on Jun 24, 2023 10:30:47 GMT -6
Time for the domain game. Break out CHAINMAIL!
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Post by howandwhy99 on Jun 24, 2023 13:30:52 GMT -6
There are only a few OSR tomes out there. And they might be known to your players.
I suggest using 2e and 3e, which did include a couple decades of numerous monster additions. Though it will take more or less work to adapt them. (Don't forget the magazines too)
A more recent alternative is the old school blogosphere. At least for those conceiving of monsters as strategic challenges. Gene Weigel has some interesting ones.
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 24, 2023 15:23:57 GMT -6
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 24, 2023 20:59:33 GMT -6
Perhaps try the enemy NPC party? These can be among the most challenging enemies cos they can have all the options and strategies available to the players themselves (and then some).
A couple of complications are that it can be time consuming to generate all the details of enemy PCs, and should the players win out they end up collecting the enemy PCs' gear which only makes the players more potent! But there are plausible mitigations to both.
E.g., use pre-gen'd bad guys. From memory, there is a really detailed evil NPC party in the finale of the A1-4 against the slave lords AD&D series that could be tweaked/re-purposed without much effort. There's also the Rogues Gallery and probably a few other, similar compilations.
Magic accumulation can also be managed... e.g., enforcing expendable and limited charge items, having magic items that are only magical for specific conditions/purposes, Drow magic items that lose their magic properties in direct sunlight, etc. All doable.
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Post by verhaden on Jun 25, 2023 15:12:31 GMT -6
Perhaps try the enemy NPC party? These can be among the most challenging enemies cos they can have all the options and strategies available to the players themselves (and then some). A couple of complications are that it can be time consuming to generate all the details of enemy PCs, and should the players win out they end up collecting the enemy PCs' gear which only makes the players more potent! But there are plausible mitigations to both. E.g., use pre-gen'd bad guys. From memory, there is a really detailed evil NPC party in the finale of the A1-4 against the slave lords AD&D series that could be tweaked/re-purposed without much effort. There's also the Rogues Gallery and probably a few other, similar compilations. Magic accumulation can also be managed... e.g., enforcing expendable and limited charge items, having magic items that are only magical for specific conditions/purposes, Drow magic items that lose their magic properties in direct sunlight, etc. All doable. This. Surely the party has managed to annoy or disrupt someone's plans enough that they've become noticed in the wider world... |
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Post by doublejig2 on Jun 25, 2023 16:26:02 GMT -6
Perhaps try the enemy NPC party? These can be among the most challenging enemies cos they can have all the options and strategies available to the players themselves (and then some). A couple of complications are that it can be time consuming to generate all the details of enemy PCs, and should the players win out they end up collecting the enemy PCs' gear which only makes the players more potent! But there are plausible mitigations to both. E.g., use pre-gen'd bad guys. From memory, there is a really detailed evil NPC party in the finale of the A1-4 against the slave lords AD&D series that could be tweaked/re-purposed without much effort. There's also the Rogues Gallery and probably a few other, similar compilations. Magic accumulation can also be managed... e.g., enforcing expendable and limited charge items, having magic items that are only magical for specific conditions/purposes, Drow magic items that lose their magic properties in direct sunlight, etc. All doable. This. Surely the party has managed to annoy or disrupt someone's plans enough that they've become noticed in the wider world... Hopefully, it isn't the DM whose annoyed! But, being noticed in the wider world is good D&D, for certain. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 25, 2023 16:50:17 GMT -6
All that treasure the players got used to belong to someone... maybe they come back to reclaim what is rightfully theirs?
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Post by mgtremaine on Jun 26, 2023 12:45:04 GMT -6
Perhaps try the enemy NPC party? These can be among the most challenging enemies cos they can have all the options and strategies available to the players themselves (and then some). A couple of complications are that it can be time consuming to generate all the details of enemy PCs, and should the players win out they end up collecting the enemy PCs' gear which only makes the players more potent! But there are plausible mitigations to both. E.g., use pre-gen'd bad guys. From memory, there is a really detailed evil NPC party in the finale of the A1-4 against the slave lords AD&D series that could be tweaked/re-purposed without much effort. There's also the Rogues Gallery and probably a few other, similar compilations. Magic accumulation can also be managed... e.g., enforcing expendable and limited charge items, having magic items that are only magical for specific conditions/purposes, Drow magic items that lose their magic properties in direct sunlight, etc. All doable. Using a full NPC party is usually a pretty good challenge. From experience you should do a few things. 1st - You as DM really need to get used to running the party. Your players have tons experience working together. If you throw together a party a week before the game they are not going be much a of challenge. The most Epic Party vs Party fight my game ever had I hand built the party using the SSI Golden Box series and ran them all they way through. That was 6months of prep (I even hex edited some of their abilities and items, as the developed I allowed them to enchant things and grow in power.) Getting them all done on paper and having their painted miniatures ready to go made them an Epic team. 2nd - Have your escape routes planned, have your backup plan in place. This should not be one and done fight, don't fudge your rolls to make them live but think through every contingency. These are NPC's but you should treat them like your own Player Characters. Is this really the time and place they want to put it all on the line? 3rd - Don't just spring this anti-user force on your party give them warning that forces are opposing them. Your NPC's would want to scout of the party for their own knowledge do this over a longer period of time (and adventures) before get down to main brawl. Don;t be surprised if that Brawl lasts several sessions.... 4th - Don;t be afraid to make the best weapons and magic items Evil tainted or cursed. You don't want to just up the power level of your Uber party by handing them a bunch of new toys. -Mike |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jun 27, 2023 19:15:31 GMT -6
A meteor strike that blasts a good portion of their meta resources before hatching a draconic demigod comes to mind...
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Post by Falconer on Jun 27, 2023 23:51:04 GMT -6
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Post by tacojohn4547 on Jun 28, 2023 12:17:21 GMT -6
In addition to the Monsters of Myth and Malevolent & Benign that Falc mentioned, now there’s also these OSRIC monster books: Malevolent & Benign II, also by Expeditious Retreat Press Dwellers in Dark Places, by Matthew Hargenrader Both of these are available through DTRPG.com |
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Post by raymond on Jun 28, 2023 16:53:53 GMT -6
I haven't used these but I know they exist:
Adventures Dark and Deep Bestiary
Adventures Dark & Deep Book of Lost Beasts
For adventuring parties that can challenge a party of PCs, AD&D has the Rogues Gallery from 1980.
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lige
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 42
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Post by lige on Jul 27, 2023 22:34:49 GMT -6
I see you listed All the Worlds Monsters in the original post. That's one of my goto's! Still available in PDF from Chaosium. The Arduin books have a lot of interesting creatures (a little overlap with All the Worlds Monsters since Dave Hargrave was part of both). Also still available though a little pricier. IF you can find it (I do not think there are any licensed sellers) Booty and the Beast has a bunch more weirdos. |
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