5E fireball

[Finarvyn]

I really don't want to start a "bash 5E" thread, but playing in a friend's Spelljammer campaign I finally got a wizard to a level where I could cast fireball and it's been a while since I played a Wizard so this is on my mind at the moment.

In OD&D/AD&D/2E a fireball was a big deal. You got to chuck a handful of d6's and count the pips and then wipe out almost everything in a room. Most monsters in our campaigns had 1-4 hit dice, so somewhere around 15 hp and a fireball could clear them out most of the time unless it was a crummy dice roll and they made a saving throw. Fireball was a Big Deal (caps for emphasis) and it was so cool to cast.

In a 5E campaign the fireball is a disappointment. You get to chuck 8d6, which feels like a lot but the average on 8d6 is only 28 points damage. (And while I toss a fireball or two each session, only twice have I actually rolled average or above damage.) Then they attempt a saving throw but my DC is around 15 so a decent number of creatures seem to make the save. And the hit point range of monsters is such that orcs and zombies and similar creatures are 20 or more hit points so occasionally I kill most of them.

It's a totally different experience. In the old days fireball was feared. Nowadays fireball is one of those "cast one this turn, then another next turn, then soon we can wipe them out" events. Medium tough monsters are 60-80 hit points, so all a fireball really does is soften them up a little.

There. Rant over. Back to our enjoyment of OD&D.

[jeffb]

The Nerfing is strong with 5E. Combine that with inflated HP and easy saves at high level and...I know I posted years ago how 2 or 3 PCs in our game wiped out an encounter that btb should have completely wrecked them.

At least with 4E, you were usually causing conditions as well and you could work together to cause other effects/conditions/damage on top of what one PC did (though, it was it's own type of hassle to deal with).

I think I recall 3E was pretty worthless too against most foes at a certain point.

Still, nothing like hitting 5th level in TSR D&D as a MU.

[thegreyelf]

5e can be a lot of fun for what it is, but yeah...it's a COMPLETELY divergent experience from earlier editions. It's nigh impossible to kill characters in 5e, you can get by without even having a cleric to heal your party thanks to short and long rests, and spells have been nerfed like crazy. That doesn't even begin to touch the obsessive "mechanical differentiation" between characters with sub-classes and the like.

People like to put the dividing line at 2e, but really, I think third edition is where the design philosophy had a marked shift and the entire game changed. 3e was the first complete "reboot" of D&D where the game was rebuilt from the ground up; up till then everything was at least evolved from and recognizable from what came before.

[hamurai]

I agree, the Fireball is more fun on higher levels, against weak creatures especially. It's no longer the feeling from earlier editions, though.

In 5E, I've come to dislike most direct-damage spells and prefer crowd control and utility spells. I'm having a lot more fun with these.

[tombowings]

5e tries to achieve a balance at the encounter level. Which means no one really get a chance to shine or make a difference. In OD&D, the mage's spells end encounters before they begin. A low-level fighter's armor class make them nigh-unbeatable against low hit die opponents. A 2nd-level fighter in plate mail can chop through goblins like no other.

5e feels more like a boxing match than a war.

I suspect the move from one-minute combat rounds to 6-second combat rounds is to blame.