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Post by jeffb on Mar 28, 2023 11:21:43 GMT -6
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Post by cadriel on Mar 28, 2023 12:26:10 GMT -6
I like S&W Complete - I keep the Otus cover version on my shelf. I'm getting the offset print book and the modules. It's a shame to me that the new Otus cover is PoD only. Print on demand hardcover is not to the point where I like it for durable game books. I still prefer S&W over the main line competition.
It would be a trip to see Mythmere Games re-release Swords & Wizardry Whitebox but reflecting the various rules updates that have been made since (particularly the "Essential Adventuring Rules" that White Box FMAG added in), and give it new art and a nice offset printing. But that's another kettle of fish.
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Post by stevemitchell on Mar 28, 2023 14:49:13 GMT -6
Great to see this coming out, and back with Mythmere again!
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Post by Vile Traveller on Mar 28, 2023 15:48:48 GMT -6
I'm in, finally. I have some of the older versions in PDF, but I've always wanted a hard copy. This is the one I was waiting for.
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Post by jeffb on Mar 28, 2023 16:24:14 GMT -6
I like S&W Complete - I keep the Otus cover version on my shelf. I'm getting the offset print book and the modules. It's a shame to me that the new Otus cover is PoD only. Print on demand hardcover is not to the point where I like it for durable game books. I still prefer S&W over the main line competition. It would be a trip to see Mythmere Games re-release Swords & Wizardry Whitebox but reflecting the various rules updates that have been made since (particularly the "Essential Adventuring Rules" that White Box FMAG added in), and give it new art and a nice offset printing. But that's another kettle of fish. : heresypost I don't feel Erol's work has been worth a darn since his return during the 3E era. None of it is as evocative and inspired as his TSR days and it looks like it was done by somebody with way less talent, or who just doesn't care anymore. I avoided buying the second print of S&WC because of that (and the 3rd print, but that's another kettle...) I'd love to see the Mullen "Green King" again for a cover on Complete. : endheresypost Otherwise, I'm with you. |
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Post by dizzysaxophone on Mar 28, 2023 19:07:52 GMT -6
I like S&W Complete - I keep the Otus cover version on my shelf. I'm getting the offset print book and the modules. It's a shame to me that the new Otus cover is PoD only. Print on demand hardcover is not to the point where I like it for durable game books. I still prefer S&W over the main line competition. It would be a trip to see Mythmere Games re-release Swords & Wizardry Whitebox but reflecting the various rules updates that have been made since (particularly the "Essential Adventuring Rules" that White Box FMAG added in), and give it new art and a nice offset printing. But that's another kettle of fish. : heresypost I don't feel Erol's work has been worth a darn since his return during the 3E era. None of it is as evocative and inspired as his TSR days and it looks like it was done by somebody with way less talent, or who just doesn't care anymore. I avoided buying the second print of S&WC because of that (and the 3rd print, but that's another kettle...) I'd love to see the Mullen "Green King" again for a cover on Complete. : endheresypost Otherwise, I'm with you. I agree. I backed at the level to get the PoD and the offset, but honestly, I still prefer the green softcover cover I have from way back, to the 2nd print, or this new one. |
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 28, 2023 21:05:36 GMT -6
: heresypost I don't feel Erol's work has been worth a darn since his return during the 3E era. None of it is as evocative and inspired as his TSR days and it looks like it was done by somebody with way less talent, or who just doesn't care anymore. I avoided buying the second print of S&WC because of that (and the 3rd print, but that's another kettle...) I'd love to see the Mullen "Green King" again for a cover on Complete. : endheresypost Otherwise, I'm with you. I have the original green hardcover with the Mullens art. I've also gotten each edition since then. None of them are as good as that original green cover edition. I'll get this one too, the interiors look to be a huge improvement in layout and legibility, and the cloth cover is fine. All I'll say about Erol Otus is I love the work he did for TSR in the early 80's. |
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 28, 2023 23:48:26 GMT -6
You blasphemers need to go to the dungeons for that!  I love Erol Otus's 21st-century full-color art. I think it is even better than his full-color art that he did in the 20th century. On the other hand, I prefer his 20th-century black-and-white art to his 21st-century black-and-white art. |
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Post by cadriel on Mar 29, 2023 6:52:49 GMT -6
I am a big fan of Otus's blue cover for the Swords & Wizardry Complete hardcover. It's got a really neat creature and the figurative work is classic Otus. I also like Mullen's green cover for the original (which you can still get on the updated Core Rules on Lulu) and his Swords & Wizardry White Box cover, though I don't think the green Mullen cover belongs on S&W Complete as it's always been the cover of S&W Core. I'm not as wild about Otus's print on demand preview artwork for this new release.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 29, 2023 8:55:37 GMT -6
I am a big fan of Otus's blue cover for the Swords & Wizardry Complete hardcover. It's got a really neat creature and the figurative work is classic Otus...I'm not as wild about Otus's print on demand preview artwork for this new release. Agreed. That older cover is quintessential D&D: a fighter, a cleric, and a magic-user fighting a weird monster in a dungeon.  But the forthcoming cover gets points for being an Erol Otusization of Gandalf confronting the Balrog on the bridge in Dwarrowdelf. I will never forgive the powers that be for not commissioning 84 full-color Otus pieces to serve as the covers and interior illustrations (20 per volume) of The Hobbit, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and The Return of the King. None of this misty, hazy, true-to-the-professor stuff for me. Give me Otus's neon-bright psychedelia instead! |
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Post by jeffb on Apr 7, 2023 6:18:48 GMT -6
So it looks like they are adding in PDFs of "spell books" for each class as stretch goals, have come out with their own "OGL" for S&W, and are adding some optional Morale rules ala B/X.
It's at just under 88K with 18 days to go. I suspect all the spellbooks will be unlocked.
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Post by jeffb on Apr 7, 2023 12:56:07 GMT -6
Another update:
here is a new "side" KS of some inexpensive S&W mini adventures by a 3rd party to go with the new book.
Also seems Matt is going to slip in some item creation rules into the new book. Draft versions will be in the updates of the KS.
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Post by machfront on Apr 9, 2023 4:59:52 GMT -6
So it looks like they are adding in PDFs of "spell books" for each class as stretch goals, have come out with their own "OGL" for S&W, and are adding some optional Morale rules ala B/X. It's at just under 88K with 18 days to go. I suspect all the spellbooks will be unlocked. Hm. Interesting. One of my fave things from B/X over OD&D is the solid morale rules. |
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Post by machfront on Apr 9, 2023 5:03:32 GMT -6
I’m broke and shouldn’t have, but I couldn’t help it…I committed for the quality hardback. Again, I couldn’t help it. It’s the retro-clone that made me learn about actual OD&D, and I bought the first printing, and every one since, and helped edit and proof-read a number of them also. I’d have felt silly, frankly, to not.
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Post by jeffb on Apr 9, 2023 6:32:46 GMT -6
Update on the KS
Awesome, I was a bit worried we might not get the Cleric spellbook and just the druid and MU, which would be weird.
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Post by jeffb on Apr 14, 2023 17:45:30 GMT -6
They've gone over 100K
I think the ref screen inserts are next.
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Post by machfront on Apr 15, 2023 4:16:09 GMT -6
Okay… I’m an idiot. Haha!
I’ve supported just and only one KS prior to this.
So, I’m unclear as to how why and what insofar as who might be granted to the extra stuff, etc.
In this case I gave to the amount that, gives the pdf and the (supposed, quality hardback)…..we’ll see….I did that before ten years ago and got a super junky, gluey, “limited edition”, and I was embarrassed for them. I do not think that will happen now. I don’t.
Having said that, and being a KS ‘virgin’, I do wonder what I may or may not qualify for or get. Again, I gave for the pdf and quality hardback, so I do wonder where I might lYinsofar as the extra stuff.
?
Not that I need nor demand such mind you…I just do not know.
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Post by machfront on Apr 15, 2023 4:23:14 GMT -6
….and yeah…the MU and the Druid thing….prior to the Cleric list….is…or now ‘was’…really bizarre…like….huh what? lol
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Post by machfront on Apr 15, 2023 4:58:03 GMT -6
All of this makes me super curious about Core (at least), as it was updated to conform to Complete when Complete was new, so will the same be true, I wonder, if any significant changes require the same such?
Honestly…I felt then and still feel now Core shouldn’t have been relegated to “Complete…but missing”, but I rather it’s own thing, though I’m likely in the minority.
So, if it’s left alone or updated, I’m sure it won’t at all be anywhere where I feel it was nigh perfection as it’s own thing (which is the Black Blade Third edition…if it had a thief class, which it did not).
(Also….thieves attacking as MUs instead of as Clerixs? What the heck?)
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 15, 2023 5:24:21 GMT -6
Also….thieves attacking as MUs instead of as Clerixs? What the heck? Well, originally when Greyhawk came out, that's the way my group played it. If you look at the "Fighting Capability" for each of the classes... "3 Men +1" occurs at: 6th level for magic-users 5th level for clerics 6th level for thieves. That would seem to indicate the "fight as magic-users" philosophy. The first time that I can recall seeing the "thieves fight as clerics" philosophy (I think) was on the Judges Guild GM screen. EDIT: No, thieves aren't on the JG screen, at least not on a first glance. Puzzling. |
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Post by jeffb on Apr 15, 2023 7:29:56 GMT -6
Having said that, and being a KS ‘virgin’, I do wonder what I may or may not qualify for or get. Again, I gave for the pdf and quality hardback, so I do wonder where I might lYinsofar as the extra stuff. ? Not that I need nor demand such mind you…I just do not know. The pledge level descriptions are pretty detailed if you are unsure of extras. If you got the hardback (and PDF), you will get the stretch goals of the PDF spellbooks (and DM Screen inserts if the KS goes to that level). If you want some of the other goodies, like the adventures, then you can manage your pledge and select the "add ons" you want. e.g. I got the limited edition hardback, but have no use for the POD version (aesthetically, and I hear mostly bad things about larger POD books from DTRPG, vs stuff like old modules and supps of lower page count). I wanted the two adventures as well, without selecting the "all in" pledge of $88 (which includes the POD I don't want) So I got the limited cover rulebook (and PDF), and for "add ons" I selected the initial two adventures they were offering in print format (names escape me now, one is a solo) which also includes those adventures in PDF format. Those + the hardcover brought my total pledge to $70 (with shipping) Just depends on what you want. You can always (until the KS ends) retract your initial pledge and select a totally different pledge level like "all in" or "adventures only", or whatever else they have. |
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Post by jeffb on Apr 15, 2023 7:36:06 GMT -6
….and yeah…the MU and the Druid thing….prior to the Cleric list….is…or now ‘was’…really bizarre…like….huh what? lol This is a way to drive the totals higher, but sometimes it backfires like here-I think they realized how dumb it was from feedback and thus the change in stretch goals. Everybody needs at least the Cleric and MU first and foremost. |
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Post by machfront on Apr 16, 2023 7:57:09 GMT -6
Also….thieves attacking as MUs instead of as Clerixs? What the heck? Well, originally when Greyhawk came out, that's the way my group played it. If you look at the "Fighting Capability" for each of the classes... "3 Men +1" occurs at: 6th level for magic-users 5th level for clerics 6th level for thieves. That would seem to indicate the "fight as magic-users" philosophy. The first time that I can recall seeing the "thieves fight as clerics" philosophy (I think) was on the Judges Guild GM screen. EDIT: No, thieves aren't on the JG screen, at least not on a first glance. Puzzling. Mayhaps the realm of a separate thread, but, page 13 of Greyhawk says “Treat Thieves as Clerics for purposes of advance in steps — four levels/group (1–4, 5–8, 9–12, etc.)”. This was likewise the same in B/X and slightly above MUs in AD&D1E, so I always assumed thieves attacked as Clerics all along. |
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Post by machfront on Apr 16, 2023 7:57:34 GMT -6
Thanks for the info, Jeff. 🙂
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Post by machfront on Apr 16, 2023 8:05:02 GMT -6
Also, I’d like to note, I’ve gotten a handful of larger hardback PODs from DTRPG and they’re all solid.
But, like Lulu, it’s going to depend on the actual printer service being sourced…and, I’d imagine (again, like Lulu) sometimes things may not be perfect. I’ve had amazing things from both, and really messed up things from Lulu, though not from DTRPG yet. So…yeah.
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Post by jeffb on Apr 18, 2023 9:51:32 GMT -6
Screen inserts are a go. Minor things, but useful and so glad Matt didn't go gonzo stupid with stretch goals like so many other KS do..and then take forever to fulfill.
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Post by jeffb on Apr 22, 2023 8:19:14 GMT -6
Last couple of days coming up-
Here are the list of things that are included in the new rulebook that were not in previous printings, as well as the fulfilled stretch goals
I'm glad to see them take on treasure in this new print (among other things). I completely ignored the previous S&W treasure "rules".
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Post by machfront on Apr 24, 2023 6:09:42 GMT -6
Interesting. One of my fave things I favor B/X over OD&D is the built-in morale rules and stat, so I’ll be interested to see how this may be implemented. Likely not as codified as B/X, I’d imagine, but, still…having some such solid will be a good thing to me.
Nitpick silliness: Also, thieves attack as clerics darn it! Heheh
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Post by jeffb on Apr 24, 2023 6:58:14 GMT -6
Interesting. One of my fave things I favor B/X over OD&D is the built-in morale rules and stat, so I’ll be interested to see how this may be implemented. Likely not as codified as B/X, I’d imagine, but, still…having some such solid will be a good thing to me. Nitpick silliness: Also, thieves attack as clerics darn it! Heheh Matt had said morale would be more or less compatible with MCM (BX). |
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Post by jeffb on May 22, 2023 16:53:33 GMT -6
PDF dropped today. Won't win any awards for layout/presentation or art, but a solid no-nonsense reference.
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