FGG & TLG teaming up for C&C-UPDATE 9/8

[jeffb]

Got an email about this Twitch episode- have not watched the whole thing, but looks like at the least we will see FGG products being converted to C&C.

I'm guessing this is how they will fill the OSR gap for the loss of S&W. EDIT- also OSE conversions- so 5E, OSE & C&C indie-gogo for new adventures coming soon. Link for IG notification signup

Detailed 5E to CC conversion guide (and a one pager) coming soon to the TLG site from our very own Jason Vey thegreyelf

[jeffb]

I'm hoping FGG do C&C better than how they did S&W. It's left a bad taste in my mouth over the years how S&W was treated over time.

Of course the business partnership is different, so likely not an issue.

[Starbeard]

Whoah, I did not see that coming. OSE sure, that was glittering 10 miles off. But this is certainly an interesting turn of events.

[jeffb]

Finished the vid.

Takeaways:

Steve is stoked about the partnership- he's been friends with Bill for 20 years (which I gather we all knew).

Had Gary lived, there was some crazy stuff in the works - like a MMO in Yggsburgh and CZ.

First products out are two new modules on IGG I linked above and then C&C conversions of some related modules that were previously published by FGG.

Rappan Athuk is possible, they want to, but unsure at this time if it will happen.

They are doing an updated Northland Saga (Vikings) and that looks to be the next big C&C product/s after the IGG modules.

They will be doing a mix of new products and conversions of Necro/FGG products that they feel/know the C&C crowd would want. If they have a 5E product in the works, it won't get a C&C conversion if they know there is not much interest (and vice versa).

[Starbeard]

The last bit is pretty heartening, actually. I'd rather they funnel stuff through the various pipelines based on what makes sense for the system, rather than just always doing everything as a 5e project and then tossing off careless "conversions" for each system as an afterthought.

I'll get to the video later this weekend, but so far from those points I'd say it all sounds pretty promising.

[jeffb]

Sept 1, 2022 19:55:41 GMT -6 Starbeard said:

The last bit is pretty heartening, actually. I'd rather they funnel stuff through the various pipelines based on what makes sense for the system, rather than just always doing everything as a 5e project and then tossing off careless "conversions" for each system as an afterthought.

Exactly. This is what happened with S&W. Everything was designed around PF and we mostly ended up with S&W conversions for products that were often a bad fit for OSR/OD&D style gameplay.

[jeffb]

For my own part- I'd prefer they stick with mostly new products, and some conversions of select older Necro/FGG classics. I've no need for yet another version of a 5 volume Rappan Athuk* or Tome of Horrors**. I'd rather see some of the classic old NG stand alone modules- Vampires & Liches (which was mentioned), Demons & Devils, Tomb of Abysthor, Crucible of Freya, Hall of the Rainbow Mage, and some others from the 3.0/early 3.5 period.


*I like and would love to see a conversion of the original three RA booklets and presented as they were. I got the original booklet when it was released and the last two along with several other books from Necro after I won the weekly WOTC chatroom Trivia contest that Clark was hosting one Friday evening (2002ish). They were easy to pick apart and use however you wished if you did not want to run it as a massive mega dungeon. The monstrosity that RA became with multiple volumes and expansions and a monstrous price tag to match is not my thing.

**C&C's current Monsters and Treasure already has most of the best stuff from ToH as it was open OGL material from day one and The Trolls have been using it since day one. It was split over a few books prior to the 5th print M&T.

[geoffrey]

Yeah, I really like the original three Rappan Athuk modules released in 2000 and 2002 (in spite of their being in 3E). What I have been angling for since 2000 is a release of the original, pre-publication AD&D Rappan Athuk. Print THAT (warts and all) accompanied by a conversion from the AD&D version to C&C. I'd buy it.

[thegreyelf]

Yup, the conversion guides are all part of our "Be #DnDone. #PlayCandCInstead" campaign over on Twitter. With the reaction to the new "One D&D" stuff, which is another example of WotC taking credit for other people's innovations (while at the same time really screwing over game stores and people who like actual books), it was time for us to speak up and start making a play to let everyone know Castles & Crusades is here. You'd be amazed at how many people have still never even heard of C&C. We had a guy back in 2015 accuse US of ripping off 5e when it had just come out, and demand to know why he should support us. Our only response was, "Well, we've actually had the system in place for 10 years [at the time]. 5e is new, and a LOT of our players were in on their open playtest. So who ripped off who, again?"

Certainly there are differences (5e is WAY more complicated than C&C) but Troll Lord did innovate the idea of basing D&D-style fantasy entirely on ability checks, top to bottom, evolving it from what had been established in 3.x. When 5e came along, WotC made announcements that they had INNOVATED that idea. Now with One D&D, they are announcing that they have INNOVATED the idea of "no new editions," which was something C&C has done since day one (and which Pathfinder originally announced, then abandoned).

[jeffb]

IGG campaign has started for new modules
Link to IGG for new FGG modules

[Starbeard]

Cool. I genuinely hope this new deal brings C&C back to some new exposure—and that the other breakaway deal brings S&W to some new exposure too. An indie scene where C&C and S&W are back at the forefront of things, alongside the newer DCC and OSE rockstars, would look pretty groovy, I think.

[thegreyelf]

For obvious reasons I cannot say which ones, but TLG was working HARD on a couple CLASSIC, INSTANTLY RECOGNIZABLE old school licenses, but nothing has come to fruition because the rights issues on them have become a hot mess. That was disappointing.

Also, don't bother guessing because I won't even tell you whether you're right or wrong. I can neither confirm nor deny any specifics.

[thegreyelf]

I would also be remiss if I did not share this. Amazing Adventures is also getting a MAJOR facelift and the Indiegogo is going live, soon:

Link for IG Notification Signup

If you go to the "Join the Discussion" link and scroll to the bottom you'll see the post I made that outlines what exactly we are doing, but the gist of it is we are taking the Companion and core book and reorganizing them into a Player's Handbook and Chronicle Keeper's Guide, then expanding the monster book a bit, so it all matches C&C. And we're going full color.

[skars]

Sept 7, 2022 6:06:36 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Yup, the conversion guides are all part of our "Be #DnDone. #PlayCandCInstead" campaign over on Twitter. With the reaction to the new "One D&D" stuff, which is another example of WotC taking credit for other people's innovations (while at the same time really screwing over game stores and people who like actual books), it was time for us to speak up and start making a play to let everyone know Castles & Crusades is here. You'd be amazed at how many people have still never even heard of C&C. We had a guy back in 2015 accuse US of ripping off 5e when it had just come out, and demand to know why he should support us. Our only response was, "Well, we've actually had the system in place for 10 years [at the time]. 5e is new, and a LOT of our players were in on their open playtest. So who ripped off who, again?"

Certainly there are differences (5e is WAY more complicated than C&C) but Troll Lord did innovate the idea of basing D&D-style fantasy entirely on ability checks, top to bottom, evolving it from what had been established in 3.x. When 5e came along, WotC made announcements that they had INNOVATED that idea. Now with One D&D, they are announcing that they have INNOVATED the idea of "no new editions," which was something C&C has done since day one (and which Pathfinder originally announced, then abandoned).

I'm all for TLG and C&C, I own multiple versions and supplements with no complaints and apologies for being pedantic. But, didn't Tunnels and Trolls innovate using ability checks (ie saves in T&T) for each attribute?

[jeffb]

Sept 9, 2022 17:45:58 GMT -6 skars said:

Sept 7, 2022 6:06:36 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Yup, the conversion guides are all part of our "Be #DnDone. #PlayCandCInstead" campaign over on Twitter. With the reaction to the new "One D&D" stuff, which is another example of WotC taking credit for other people's innovations (while at the same time really screwing over game stores and people who like actual books), it was time for us to speak up and start making a play to let everyone know Castles & Crusades is here. You'd be amazed at how many people have still never even heard of C&C. We had a guy back in 2015 accuse US of ripping off 5e when it had just come out, and demand to know why he should support us. Our only response was, "Well, we've actually had the system in place for 10 years [at the time]. 5e is new, and a LOT of our players were in on their open playtest. So who ripped off who, again?"

Certainly there are differences (5e is WAY more complicated than C&C) but Troll Lord did innovate the idea of basing D&D-style fantasy entirely on ability checks, top to bottom, evolving it from what had been established in 3.x. When 5e came along, WotC made announcements that they had INNOVATED that idea. Now with One D&D, they are announcing that they have INNOVATED the idea of "no new editions," which was something C&C has done since day one (and which Pathfinder originally announced, then abandoned).

I'm all for TLG and C&C, I own multiple versions and supplements with no complaints and apologies for being pedantic. But, didn't Tunnels and Trolls innovate using ability checks (ie saves in T&T) for each attribute?

Ken got it right for sure way back in '75.

But I think Jason specifically means within the realm of D&D proper and D20/OGL games.