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Post by xerxez on Jul 26, 2022 20:54:05 GMT -6
As a longtime D&D player (various versions and editions), I somehow avoided wargaming. It seemed boring, mundane, and much too slow of pace, whether fantasy or historical. Plus, no rolpe playing element? Pfft.
I've been reading some rules latey, though, as well as some history of important battles... and I feel like I cheated myself.
I'm finding out just how much war-gaming acquaints one with ancient, dark ages and medieval warfare in the context of history, and I'm feeling smarter on these things already by examining these rules- making me realize just how much the wargamers did the homework that I didn't! In putting the wargames rules and notes up against historical battles, I can see some people did a lot of research.
Army sizes, weapons, tactics, armor...before it made into a wargames ruleset someone dredged it from history books!
So now I'm trying to assemble some armies and wondering the best way to do that "on the cheap".
I'm reading a history of Brian Boru, the High Kings of Ireland, and the Battle of Clontarf and it's got me trying to build some forces.
Any recommends or advice on proceeding from the old timers here would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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Post by Desparil on Jul 26, 2022 22:16:48 GMT -6
I mean, the cheapest thing you can do is to use tokens, chits, or paper minis. As long as the rules you're using specify base or stand sizes, the rules function the same whether you have the finest-painted pewter miniatures in the land or a bunch of cardboard squares and rectangles. If you want something more "pretty" than that, then the cost of "real" miniatures goes in ascending order of plastic -> resin -> metal. If you already own a 3D printer, there are tons of free schematics online that you can use with it; however, if you don't already have one, a 3D printer probably isn't cost effective unless you're planning to print a LOT of figures.
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Post by hamurai on Jul 26, 2022 23:09:14 GMT -6
www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Gripping_Beast_Minatures.htmlThat might be a good start to look for plastic miniatures which have a good value for the price. If you prefer metal, they also have those. I have both plastic and metal miniatures for my historical Saga games and while the plastic ones have more details, I kinda prefer the metal ones as they have a more old-school look and feel to me.
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Post by rsdean on Jul 27, 2022 4:20:56 GMT -6
As Hamurai notes, for that time period you are currently in luck. The Dark Ages are popular and have a reasonably generic “look” across Europe. Saga, as noted, provides skirmish level rules for the period. For larger battles you might look at Dux Bellorum from Osprey (aimed a little earlier but should extend). My son and play a lot of DBA (De Bellis Antiquitatis) which is generic but certainly covers the period.
If you don’t like the idea of building the multiple part hard plastic figures other recommendations could be made.
Have you painted any miniatures for D&D?
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Post by rsdean on Jul 27, 2022 7:55:26 GMT -6
Additionally, by the way, you might like to take a look at Ravensfeast: www.ravenfeast.com/This is a free set of skirmish rules with advice on terrain, etc. Even if your ultimate intention is to refight the Battle of Clontarf, you might want to build some momentum for your project along the way by playing some smaller games as you finish up the figures. A little bit of planning and some careful choice of bases can allow your figures to serve in multiple capacities as your project grows.
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jul 27, 2022 21:44:04 GMT -6
Ravenfeast also has a fantasy supplement. I really enjoy Ravenfeast.
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Post by xerxez on Jul 28, 2022 10:24:00 GMT -6
Thanks guys. those resources look great. Until I acquire some figures I have, as of yesterday, put together some paper forces, and I have some painted minis that will be good for leader character figures. I plan on sprucing up these paper figures a little, too. I had trouble posting the images here so you can see them at my blog. I made skirmishers, line units, archers, slingers and some berserkers, now just need to prepare a battle field. Paper Minis
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Post by DungeonDevil on Jul 28, 2022 18:08:28 GMT -6
Welcome to wargaming! It's a wonderful hobby (on the wane, I'm afraid), but rewarding. One must have patience, time and the desire to do very involved research for it to bear fruit.
I do mostly Napoleonic-era wargaming. I use hundreds of used plastic figures from RISK sets purchased from vendors on Ebay on the cheap. I glue them to posterboard bases of varying sizes (depending upon the ruleset), and don't paint them (poor eyesight not getting any better).
EDIT: I've also got 25mm French Foreign Legion figs and a beautiful hard-foam fort ready for action.
So many hobbies...so little time...
*sigh*
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tedopon
Newly-Registered User
Posts: 86
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Post by tedopon on Jul 28, 2022 19:39:58 GMT -6
I love wargaming! We use 1/72 scale because they are pretty cheap. I have stuff all the way from ancients up through future stuff. We have played a little of everything over the years, but currently play a post apocalypse setting where WWII ended in global atomic hell and the game uses 1965 as a reference year, but there is time travel. Wargames are really fun, I prefer them to standard rpgs these days because we don't tend to fall into the same routines in gameplay that we have over decades of rpgs.
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Post by rsdean on Jul 29, 2022 3:55:59 GMT -6
Personally, I’ve spent a lot of time with/on 1/72 scale plastic figures; buying Airfix boxes BITD is how I got into wargaming, which then led into D&D when it eventually came out. Pictures of games and painting can be found on my blog: sharpbrush.blogspot.com/search/label/1%2F72%20scale%20plasticThe Plastic soldier Review is THE go-to source for information on 1/72 sets currently (and previously) available. www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Index.aspxFor the OP, though, putting together 11th century Irish would require some thinking and scrounging, as there isn’t a set of them as such. (So looking at things on PSR would be a good start….) 1/72s do have a real world problem, though, as a lot of the manufacturers are Ukrainian, and have more important issues now. Supplies are getting thin.
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Post by tkdco2 on Jul 29, 2022 11:24:52 GMT -6
I like wargaming. I'd like to do some historical wargaming, but my friends aren't into it. They like 40K and starship combat, but they're not interested in historical battles. Pity, since I wouldn't mind recreating a battle from the Napoleonic Wars or the Thirty Years War. I once said that the more I learn about history, the less I need fantasy.
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Post by DungeonDevil on Jul 31, 2022 6:13:03 GMT -6
...that the more I learn about history, the less I need fantasy. I have found, for the past forty-two years, that the contrary is true -- at least for me: the more of RL History I have learned the more inspiration I have to enrich my campaigns. Military History all the more so. We see the lack of such knowledge in how the film industry and some video games depict battles frequently by throwing Huge Mass A against Huge Mass B, without any having any structure or subdivisions.
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
Posts: 370
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Post by flightcommander on Jul 31, 2022 14:18:43 GMT -6
xerxez If you're at all keen on paper miniatures, check out peterspaperboys.com — lots of good stuff for ancients, namely Greece/Persia/Rome/Carthage/Gaul, but also some other time periods and a little fantasy.
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Post by DungeonDevil on Aug 2, 2022 7:41:07 GMT -6
xerxez If you're at all keen on paper miniatures, check out peterspaperboys.com — lots of good stuff for ancients, namely Greece/Persia/Rome/Carthage/Gaul, but also some other time periods and a little fantasy. Nice, but 28mm is too large for big battles -- unless one can clear sufficient floorspace -- and keep the pets from stomping all over them!
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 2, 2022 12:30:51 GMT -6
If you print the miniatures, you should be able to scale them to your preferences. Some of the miniatures are already in the 10-20 mm range, although the Napoleonic armies are 28 mm.
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skars
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 407
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Post by skars on Aug 2, 2022 22:52:27 GMT -6
I haven't found a scale or period that doesn't suit me But, in your case as you are just getting started and are interested in Dark Ages, I recommend getting some 1/72 scale or smaller (15mm scale is common for large battles but 6mm is great for the mass force feel) plastic kits. You can get a variety of kits that are suitable for the period including fun stuff like villagers (baggage) and livestock (herds)
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 2, 2022 23:05:00 GMT -6
I find 1/72 scale works for me since I prefer to keep wargames at the platoon or company level rather than the brigade or regiment level.
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Post by Starbeard on Aug 3, 2022 19:34:08 GMT -6
xerxez , what would you say your inclinations toward scale are? If you don't mind smaller figures, the you can source 6mm figures for around 6p-10p / 8¢-12¢ per figure. This can make your armies pretty cheap, for instance, if you are happy to scale everything down. However, most don't like to play with such small sizes and measurements, so the standard practice is to base everything as if you were playing in 15mm or 28mm and simply pile the stands full of guys to create an evocative diorama. Very engaging look, and the facility of movement and measuring isn't compromised, but it sort of cancels out the cost saving angle of 6mm. However, you can be a crazy guy like me and go 2mm, and this will cut costs, painting time AND storage space. A strip of the little guys from Irregular Miniatures will run around 10¢-15¢, but you can base them exactly as you would 15mm figures on a 15mm base. So let's say you're building a DBA army, which has 12 bases with each base having at most 4 figures on it. So, with 2mm strips instead of 15mm figures, your DBA armies will never be more expensive than $5-$7. If you're incredulous, just google "Irregular 2mm army" and see what people have done with them.
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
Posts: 370
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Post by flightcommander on Aug 4, 2022 13:21:35 GMT -6
Speaking of "on the cheap", WoFun has recently [?] released a series of free "starter pack" rules for various time periods. These are meant for the Paperboys miniatures I mentioned upthread, which WoFun has licensed, but you could certainly make do with other miniatures, or just download the rules for inspiration. They are available here: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gqIvN7nHlhp4Asc6J0W7WV9l_DrTRX4pThey do not include any paper miniatures, so you'd need to sort that out separately. But the rules are at least nicely laid out and illustrated, so you'll get a sense of what can be done with paper miniatures. I can't speak to the actual rules as I've only just downloaded a few and haven't read them yet, let alone played them. But they certainly look nice! (WoFun's online presence appears to be a complete omnishambles, I found this link on the Paperboys f-bk page.)
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Post by hamurai on Aug 7, 2022 1:43:01 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing these!
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