Rules for Jumping Climbing and Swimming

[tombowings]

How do you handle these situation?

[waysoftheearth]

U&WA (p33) has some details on swimming (primarily about drowning) and assumes half of sailors can swim.

That aside, I assume:

Normals make normal runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Likewise, heroes make heroic runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Superheroes, likewise.

A figure can attempt/succeed on a feat above their tier on the d6 throw of 5-6. After which they'd likely have to rest.

[retrorob]

As for the climbing, I look at the involved character's Dexterity value. If it's 13 or more, the character succeeds automatically. 12 and less - perhaps 1 or 2 in 6 that something goes wrong. It really depends on the situation.

Swimming/drowning is covered by vol. III, as already indicated by waysoftheearth.

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2021 0:07:52 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

U&WA (p33) has some details on swimming (primarily about drowning) and assumes half of sailors can swim.

That aside, I assume:

Normals make normal runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Likewise, heroes make heroic runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Superheroes, likewise.

A figure can attempt/succeed on a feat above their tier on the d6 throw of 5-6. After which they'd likely have to rest.

And, as an aside, the same section (naval adventures) has the rules for fall damage, often cited as "missing" in early D&D. 

[Deleted]

I'm using a Save on 2d6.
For swimming, if it's a storm the save is 10+, else it is 8+.

A fail doesn't mean the character drown to death, but they need to give up equipment in order to alleviate the burden and swim properly.

Thinking about this, I don't remember my players climbing something, ever.

I stole the AS&SH "leap ability", so unencumbered Fighters can jump chasms... I guess I would consider that Fighters automatically succeed a climbing if he's not encumbered.

Mar 27, 2021 6:14:54 GMT -6 retrorob said:

As for the climbing, I look at the involved character's Dexterity value. If it's 13 or more, the character succeeds automatically. 12 and less - perhaps 1 or 2 in 6 that something goes wrong. It really depends on the situation.

Swimming/drowning is covered by vol. III, as already indicated by waysoftheearth.

I think I'll be stealing this for non-Fighters. But I will use Strength instead, if Str 13+ the character succeed, else Save 8+.

[Finarvyn]

Step one is to ask myself, "is this something that a person might be expected to be able to do?" If it's a clear YES then I let them do it. If the answer is NO then I suggest that they ought to not attempt the thing because they will fail. If I think there is any doubt I proceed to step two.

Step two is to have the player roll dice. Basically, I don't care what kind of dice they roll but sometimes I will request a certain die type. When they roll I mentally add in whatever stat bonus seems appropriate to the action. The exact number isn't that important, but I am interested in high versus low. High is success and low is failure, and I could probably do it by coin flip, but with dice there is that hazy space in the middle. If the number isn't clearly high or low I move to step three.

Step three is to pretend to look at a chart on my GM screen. Then I ask for another roll and loop back to step two.

[dicebro]

Mar 27, 2021 9:12:29 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Step one is to ask myself, "is this something that a person might be expected to be able to do?" If it's a clear YES then I let them do it. If the answer is NO then I suggest that they ought to not attempt the thing because they will fail. If I think there is any doubt I proceed to step two.

Step two is to have the player roll dice. Basically, I don't care what kind of dice they roll but sometimes I will request a certain die type. When they roll I mentally add in whatever stat bonus seems appropriate to the action. The exact number isn't that important, but I am interested in high versus low. High is success and low is failure, and I could probably do it by coin flip, but with dice there is that hazy space in the middle. If the number isn't clearly high or low I move to step three.

Step three is to pretend to look at a chart on my GM screen. Then I ask for another roll and loop back to step two.

This is the method for me. Every situation is unique and I hate halting the game to look up rules. Thanks. 

[talysman]

There's some distance an average unencumbered person could jump easily -- I lost my notes, but let's say:

• Base: 3 paces (7 to 8 feet)
• Encumbered: -1 pace
• Max Encumbrance: -2 paces
• Running Start: +1 pace

No need to roll for that. distance. If the distance is up to twice that, make a 5+ on 1d6 roll or miss. More than that, it's impossible. PCs or maybe just Fighters can substitute Level, if they want, although depending on how "realistic" a group wants the game to feel, perhaps there should be a max distance. Missed rolls mean a fall, but if there's something to grab and stop their fall, high Dex characters might get some kind of roll.

For jumping up, the base distance is half the character's height easily, roll to jump up to twice that distance.

For climbing and swimming, I go by Move score. That's the distance in yards/meters that a swimmer can swim, or a climber can climb, in one minute, assuming they know how to swim, or they have any climbing gear needed. After five minutes, climbers need to make a roll to see if they slip.

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2021 10:13:34 GMT -6 talysman said:

No need to roll for that. distance. If the distance is up to twice that, make a 5+ on 1d6 roll or miss. More than that, it's impossible. PCs or maybe just Fighters can substitute Level, if they want, although depending on how "realistic" a group wants the game to feel, perhaps there should be a max distance.

I agree that for a more realistic game it might have a max distance. I guess my games are too much fantasy in this regard.

Even then, considering realistic games, we could first think about what being a "Fighter" mean.
Is a Fighter someone more capable than a normal folk (at least "more than average"?) or every character is an average person doesn't matter the character class?

I know every Referee have his own answer for this. I'm just rambling.

That's because a jump/leap of more than 20 ft isn't unrealistic. Since my games are often sword & sorcery, more heroic than the average OD&D game, I consider that a Fighter can jump around 25 ft. I first saw this "ability" on AS&SH but then I was curious to see how far a Olympic athlete could jump and I've saw jumps of over 28 ft. So I've adopted the rule as I think of Fighters pretty much as athletes and gladiators.

Well, even Socrates and Pythagoras attended ancient Olympics, and Plato was a champion of Pankration. I guess they were all multi-class. 

[talysman]

Mar 27, 2021 11:41:16 GMT -6 @jacksonbenete said:

Mar 27, 2021 10:13:34 GMT -6 talysman said:

No need to roll for that. distance. If the distance is up to twice that, make a 5+ on 1d6 roll or miss. More than that, it's impossible. PCs or maybe just Fighters can substitute Level, if they want, although depending on how "realistic" a group wants the game to feel, perhaps there should be a max distance.

I agree that for a more realistic game it might have a max distance. I guess my games are too much fantasy in this regard.

Even then, considering realistic games, we could first think about what being a "Fighter" mean.
Is a Fighter someone more capable than a normal folk (at least "more than average"?) or every character is an average person doesn't matter the character class?

I know every Referee have his own answer for this. I'm just rambling.

That's because a jump/leap of more than 20 ft isn't unrealistic. Since my games are often sword & sorcery, more heroic than the average OD&D game, I consider that a Fighter can jump around 25 ft. I first saw this "ability" on AS&SH but then I was curious to see how far a Olympic athlete could jump and I've saw jumps of over 28 ft. So I've adopted the rule as I think of Fighters pretty much as athletes and gladiators.

Well, even Socrates and Pythagoras attended ancient Olympics, and Plato was a champion of Pankration. I guess they were all multi-class. 

I was going by the standing long jump record (12 feet 2 1/2 inches,) but didn't check the running long jump record, which is where the 28 to 29 foot figures come from, so you raise a good point. Instead of a running start adding just one pace, it should maybe add 7 paces. So:

* Up to 10 paces (25 feet): no roll needed
* Up to 13 paces (32-33 feet): roll
* Encumbered: -1 or -2 paces

Better?

[flightcommander]

Mar 27, 2021 9:12:29 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Step three is to pretend to look at a chart on my GM screen.

[Finarvyn]

Mar 27, 2021 13:00:02 GMT -6 flightcommander said:

Mar 27, 2021 9:12:29 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Step three is to pretend to look at a chart on my GM screen.

You never want the players to know that you are faking it.

[Porphyre]

Roll under Armor Class with a d10, d12 ou d20 according to difficulty.

[bobjester0e]

I ask myself Finarvyn's YES or NO question, if yes, no roll required.

If no, then roll 2d6 vs a task number, usually a 6, 8, or 11 difficulty.

If the task could be influenced by the character's Prime Requisite Ability (strength, dexterity, wisdom or intelligence), I let the player roll 3d6-L.

If the task could be simplified by use of another PC or NPC, magic, or equipment, but still not a sure-fire YES, then I allow 3d6 roll, adding all dice.

[clownboss]

I do what Ways said. A Veteran would jump like a Veteran, a Hero would jump like a Hero. Ever wanted to see a Swashbuckler jump like a Swashbuckler? I like it when the class ranks in my games have actual meaning.

[hamurai]

Depending on the situation, most "doable" jumps and climbs and swims are automatic successes, unless the PCs have bad circumstances against them, which includes a battle or wearing heavy armour or carrying heavy load. For these cases, as well as situations which surpass the normal limit, I mostly use d20 rolls against STR or DEX or CON. Bad circumstances may often be avoided by using apporpriate gear, though.

[sixdemonbag]

Fin's Method™ is becoming the standard the more I play.

[vilecultofshapes]

If the distance is under 12 feet I just give it to em. Unless they're encumbered or short, then it's half.

Over 12 feet:
If they're over 14 Dex or Str I let them d20 roll under. Everybody else maybe 1 or 2 in 6. Elves and Thieves get a bonus.

My max would probably be from 20 up to 30 foot range for truly heroic characters. Half if standing long jump.

Swimming in dangerous water does the same except instead of taking fall damage you take drown damage every round until something changes. Most people don't know how to swim.

Climbing easy stuff is automatic. Climbing quickly or without gear requires re-checks every turn. Move rate at encounter speed per turn. Thieves use their Climb skill as a bonus save.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't personally halve the jumping distance for beings like Kobolds, Goblins, Hobbits or Dwarves, personally. They're short, sure, but their movement rate is more like 2/3rds that of Humans than half. I interpret them as having powerful, compact little muscles for their height. If they were the same height as Humans with their physiology they'd be strong as power-lifters.

[vilecultofshapes]

Apr 23, 2021 6:23:59 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

I wouldn't personally halve the jumping distance for beings like Kobolds, Goblins, Hobbits or Dwarves, personally.

I think you might be right. I've never had to get that nitty-gritty about it in my campaigns. Usually if players want to jump I tell them how far, what'll happen if they fall, and we'll discuss a target number. Most of the time when they discover failure means potentially falling 100 feet (no save--the jump itself is the save) they back off.

If they come within a couple points of success, or if they have high Dex I might let them 'catch the edge' and hang or a turn or so.

Clever cretins like kobolds and goblins typically have systems of ropes and ladders or alternative paths for avoiding such obstacles when they live near them.

[aldarron]

Thought we had a thread on this but couldn't find it.

Jumping = current movement rate (per move) in feet. So if your movement rate is 9" you can jump 9 feet maximum.

Climbing - dex save, with penalties or bonuses as I see fit.

Swiming - per 3lbb and Supp II rules.

[dicebro]

A. You will automatically succeed if you try
B. You will automatically fail if you try
C. You will succeed if you roll higher than x

Pick one and move on.

[delta]

At least for climbing and swimming, here's what I have in my house rules:

Climbing: Base 2-in-6 chance, plus Dex bonus, minus encumbrance level. Success travels half move rate per round; miss by 2 pips falls. Modify up or down for surface difficulty (handholds, spikes, slippery, etc.).

Rappelling: Climbing up/down a rope is at +2 chance (down is quadruple speed). Characters can haul a weight up/down equal to Strength in stone. Any sharp jolt is 1-in-20 to break a rope.

Swimming: Base 2-in-6 chance, plus Str bonus, minus stone weight carried. Fighters and thieves are at +2. Success travels half move rate per round; miss by 2 pips sinks. Modify to taste for water conditions (calm, stormy, etc.)

[Deleted]

Apr 27, 2021 11:15:38 GMT -6 vilecultofshapes said:

Clever cretins like kobolds and goblins typically have systems of ropes and ladders or alternative paths for avoiding such obstacles when they live near them.

That's true, on their home turf, at least. They're lethal in their lairs. They know them like the back of their hands. I was talking more like outlier situations, like adventuring or scouting Kobolds. I suspect the little buggers can run away a lot faster than one would assume based on their height. Their movement of 6" isn't that terribly far behind that of a normal-sized humanoid's 9", and they're more likely to disappear into shrubbery. If the Human, Orc or whatever happens to be heavily armored or encumbered and the Goblin or Kobold is completely unencumbered, then it's a real race. 

[Red Baron]

Mar 27, 2021 0:07:52 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

U&WA (p33) has some details on swimming (primarily about drowning) and assumes half of sailors can swim.

That aside, I assume:

Normals make normal runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Likewise, heroes make heroic runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Superheroes, likewise.

A figure can attempt/succeed on a feat above their tier on the d6 throw of 5-6. After which they'd likely have to rest.

This is a wonderfully "game-y" way to handle these 🙂.

I wonder how a potion of heroism would affect a normal-type's jumps?

[waysoftheearth]

May 2, 2021 19:34:10 GMT -6 Red Baron said:

I wonder how a potion of heroism would affect a normal-type's jumps?

They'd jump like a hero of course

"Heroism: A dual action potion which makes a normal man act like a hero in all respects" (M&T p32).

[talysman]

Kind of related to swimming (and drowning) is holding one's breath. A while back, I noticed these two side notes in the booklets:

A character swallowed by a purple worm will die in 6 turns. (Vol. II, Monsters & Treasure, p. 15)

The Bowl of Watery Death will drown a character in 2-5 turns. (Supplement I, Greyhawk, p. 52)

From that, I think it's a safe move to say that the GM should just roll a secret d6 for the number of minutes the character can hold their breath. The player can risk as many actions as they dare, not knowing how long they will last. On the last minute, the GM gives a warning, and the next minute, the player drowns unless they get air. Might give High Con characters an extra minute, and everyone except Low Con characters get a 5+ on 1d6 roll to squeeze one last minute in.

Other than that, you just need to know swimming speed and the rules for ditching armor (from U&WA.)

[Deleted]

May 2, 2021 19:34:10 GMT -6 Red Baron said:

Mar 27, 2021 0:07:52 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

U&WA (p33) has some details on swimming (primarily about drowning) and assumes half of sailors can swim.

That aside, I assume:

Normals make normal runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Likewise, heroes make heroic runs, jumps, swims automatically.
Superheroes, likewise.

A figure can attempt/succeed on a feat above their tier on the d6 throw of 5-6. After which they'd likely have to rest.

This is a wonderfully "game-y" way to handle these 🙂.

I wonder how a potion of heroism would affect a normal-type's jumps?

Well, clearly, at least one can leap tall buildings in a single bound. 

[talysman]

I did some thinking about what some people have said and tweaked my rules a little, then rewrote them to simplify.

The character’s current Move score is their climbing and swimming speed, in paces. Base jump distance is one third of that, or two thirds for a running start.

Characters must rest ten minutes out of every hour (or double, if overburdened.) If in the middle of a climb or swim and unable to rest, the character must roll 5+ on 1d6 to continue another ten minutes.

If the roll fails, the character slips or sinks. Falling does the usual damage. Sinking means the character must hold their breath until rescued.

A (U.S.) pace is officially two and a half feet, but I see no problem with using pace, yard, and meter interchangeably in an RPG. It’s not rocket science. Also, that middle rule is just an adaptation of the standard rules for resting. This doesn’t apply to jumping, of course -- can’t rest in the middle of a jump -- but any jump that exceeds the base distance, up to a max of Move Score x Paces, requires a roll.

Naturally, speeds might be doubled or tripled for some actions when performed by certain classes. Or substitute 2 x Level for Move for the Fighter class, if desired.