Initiative, Determining it, and if it's needed

[sonicracer100]

Since OD&D as written doesn't go into detail about initiative, how do you determine such a thing? Do you use Chainmail, your own initiative system, or backport initiative from a newer system? I even understand that some people may not use initiative! After all, combat is chaotic, and no intiative arguably encapsulates this!
I personally do initiative as:

A.Surprise
B.Group Initiative by d6
C.Movement
D.Missile
E.Melee
F.Spells(Turning and Magic Items included)

From there repeat steps B-F until combat is resolved, with morale checks after each round if needed. Oneach phase, winning side goes first, then losing through each of the phases. The one caveat being that spears strike first on approaching enemies, and polearms/pikes can strike in the second and third row respectively(not first, and always dead last).

[retrorob]

I've tried different ways here:

- group initiative (roll d6, higher wins)
- mix of Chainmail / Warrios of Mars / Judges Guild (longer weapon, higher ground, higher level etc.)
- spells & missiles first, in melee no initiative at all (simultaneous combat, combatants can kill each other - dying blow)

Surprise always gives one free action (ie. spell, attack etc.).

If you use Vancian Magic, spells should go first, probably even before missiles - it's about uttering a short formula.

[sixdemonbag]

No initiative. PC's always go first unless surprised. So, for most encounters:

Scenario #1
-------------
Ref: You carefully round the corner to the west and see a group of at least 3 goblins at (*rolls dice to check surprise/distance*) 40 feet. What do you do?
Caller: The three front line fighters immediately spread out to the width of the corridor and attempt to engage in melee while the archers in the second row fire missiles. Our magic-user holds to the rear to anticipate any larger threats.
Ref: Great. Archers, roll your attacks before the front line gets in formation to avoid penalty. Front line fighters, you will be able to close the distance as missiles whistle and sing overhead...

Scenario #2
-------------
Ref: You carelessly round the corner to the west and see a group of at least 3 goblins at (*rolls dice to check surprise/distance*) 30 feet. You are surprised by the monsters which immediately charge the front line fighters.
Caller: Drats! Do the fighters have time to spread out to the width of the corridor to protect the second line archers and our Magic-User?
Ref: (*Rolls dice.*) The fighters are barely able to stumble over each other as they successfully spread out in formation across the dusty hallway. (*Ref rolls attacks for monsters.*) Fighter #1 takes 2 points of damage as one goblin hits while the other two miss their targets. What do you do now?...

[talysman]

Feb 20, 2020 14:18:27 GMT -6 sixdemonbag said:

No initiative. PC's always go first unless surprised.

Mostly the same for me. I make a distinction between which character/creature attacks first and which player goes first.

Players always decide what to do first unless they fail the surprise roll, but they can choose to go second if they want to see what the monsters are doing first before making their moves.

But as for which attacks happen first in non-surprise rounds, hasted creatures attack first, then normals, then slowed creatures and undead. Within each group, order of attacks is considered simultaneous unless one combatant would be killed. In that case, you have to decide whether that combatant was able to make their action before dying. I resolve those in order of weapon length during a charge or Dex/Move otherwise. Ties mean the attacks actually are simultaneous. It saves a lot of time if you skip figuring this out except during the edge cases.

[Torreny]

For my personal game, After surprise is dealt with, initiative is checked as expected. Movement, missile fire, etc. And then melee is rolled for afterwards. For that, I follow Chainmail's deterministic view on attack order, including attacks from the rear and flanks against shielded foes making them swing last. The weapon classes are included for that.

I think it's worthwhile. It helps make weapons still mean something when it's d6 damage, and with my friends being weapon nerds, they like it too. Initiative is also important for being able to intercept enemy spell casters, or attempt a quick non-attack before the baddies can chop someone (like cut a chandelier rope and rapidly ascend, etc.)

The hobbit throwing stones or darts at enemy M-U's and E.H.P.'s standing just outside the fights never tires, and etc.

[countingwizard]

d**n. Having run the game a few different ways, and talking about it endlessly, and the fact that dexterity adds some mechanics, I think I'm going to have to try a different Chainmail sequence for D&D. I may use this one, where both sides complete a segment before the next segment occurs:

• Declare Spells
• Determine Initiative (ties indicate simultaneously resolved, winner chooses to whether to take move segment first or last)
• Move Segment (sequential)
• Move, Split-Move & Missile Fire, and/or takes Pass-Through Fire

[li]Combat Segment (sequential by initiative)[/li]

• Melee combat can be refused if conditions are right (move out of melee range), giving up 2nd missile attack or spell
• Missile Fire, Spells*, Melee Attacks Resolve by initiative, all at the same time

[li]Post-Melee Morale Check for Enemy & Hirelings[/li][li]Return to Step 1[/li][/ul]
*Spells can't be cast unless the magic-user remains both stationary and undisturbed by attack.

[stonetoflesh]

I have mostly just used surprise followed by B/X-style d6 group initiative. For my upcoming game, I'm planning to try a "no initiative" approach similar to that described in this Dungeon Craft video. Essentially: Following normal surprise check, actions are declared for characters and monsters. All to-hit dice are rolled simultaneously, and the order of results is determined by the referee with allowance for various factors (spells, missiles & set polearms against charge, etc.) In the event of two opposing successes, either both occur (ex., fighter and orc deal death blows to each other) or tie goes to the higher result (ex., fighter racing to stop the orc from hitting the alarm gong.)

I've used this method recently in the "D&D-lite" miniature skirmishes I've played with my 5-year-old son, it's made for a fast and fluid combat experience. I'm looking forward to trying it out with a regular group.

[robertsconley]

Feb 20, 2020 11:05:12 GMT -6 sonicracer100 said:

Since OD&D as written doesn't go into detail about initiative, how do you determine such a thing?

• Everybody rolls 1d6, high roll goes first.
  
• The roll can be modified by a dex bonus. 12-14: +1; 15-17: +2; 18: +3;
  
• The roll can be modified by 1/2 the monsters HD (round down)
  
• The roll can be modified by a fighter by their to hit bonus. The different between to hit AC 0 at level 1 and their to hit AC 0 at current level.
• Leader NPCs and unique creatures get their own initiative rolls
• The rest of the monsters I make a single initiative roll

Generally fighters and high HD monsters go first. I start out by calling out "Does anybody have a ten or higher?". I resolve those first in order of what they rolled. I then call out 9 and count down from there. If there is a tie the higher dexterity goes first. If its a monster and not a NPC,the PC goes first.

As I use miniatures I will sometimes make an arbitrary call about the initiative order. For example in a corridor fight I will often have the front lines dice off first and resolve their actions. If somebody wants to do something first from the back then I will have also roll a dice. Otherwise I go from front to back for both sides. In general I use my experience with LARPs and reenactments to order the action in a way that feel natural. But again if a player really want to try to go first they can roll and take their action then if they win.

This works well for up to eight players. Ten players or higher I will divide them into two or more groups and have them designate a caller. I will have callers make the roll but if they want a particular character to go first then that character's modifiers can be applied and I will use that as part of the imitative order. I done this about five times in the last 15 years.

[talysman]

I mentioned how I do it (no initiative) above, but another option is to go in Dex order as per Holmes Basic. Use monster Move scores as their Dex. If there is a tie, either roll dice to break the tie or just let those actions be simultaneous.

Edit to Add: You can also split the "declare actions" and "resolve actions" phase. Declare actions in INT order (lowest to highest,) then resolve in reverse DEX order (highest to lowest.) It gives smarter characters the advantage of knowing what their opponents are doing.

[rustic313]

I've floated around through the years.

Started in AD&D, basically required a minor in the subject to understand the details of initiative, and ended up using something similar to ADDICT from DF.

Then shifted 100% to super simple "each side throws a D6, higher # goes first." Ties to the smaller group usually.

Now I'm somewhere in the middle with what feels like a happy medium.

BASIC SEQUENCE
Each player character, significant player-controlled NPC with a name (not mooks), and group of hirelings (squad of soldiers, for example) rolls 2d6. Individuals add their dexterity modifier (ranging from -2 to +2). Hirelings subordinate to an officer add their leader's intelligence modifier. No DEX bonus is allowed in chain, those in plate also suffer -1. Similar penalties for moderate/severe encumbrance.
Result of 8+: Go first ("fast PC")
Result of 7+: Either reroll, or a score of 11+ DEX means you're fast and 10 or below means you're slow.
Result of 6-: Go last ("slow PC")

You roll once and only once at the start of the encounter. The only time a new roll would be called for is if a whole new significant wave of forces enters the fight, making it effectively a new encounter (Round 6: The PCs are mopping up the remaining goblins. They feel great. Suddenly, the scene is darkened and all cringe from the roar of... a dragon! Roll for initiative again.)

This results in a sequence of:
ROUND ONE: Fast PCs go, then monsters all go...
ROUND TWO: All the PCs go (the slow ones from round one, then the fast ones again), then monsters all go.

Basically you get the fidelity of taking individual dexterity into account as well as armor penalties. So the thieves and lightly armored swashbuckler fighters get to count on often acting first, and the plate wearing clumsy cleric is probably last. Everyone also gets the joy of rolling for initiative, which is honestly something that players seem to enjoy. There's nothing like the twinge of excitement and dread that comes with picking up the dice when the DM says "Roll for initiative!"

I originally did 1d6 rolls but the modifiers are too severe on 1d6. A 1d20 roll with TN 11+ works fine but its a bit clunky. I like the curve of 2d6, it makes the first modifiers quite significant, with stacked modifiers becoming less impactful. I also toyed with a 1d20 roll under your dex score, which is also ok, but I like the feel of 2d6 and prefer broad bands of modifiers to the finer gradations of individual DEX score points.

QUICK & SLUGGISH MONSTERS
The above roll can be modified by a blanket modifier up to +3/-3 for everyone based on the nature of the monsters. Usually I'll apply a penalty to the roll equal to the monster's "pips" (so a band of 1+1 HD humanoids would impose a -1 penalty, especially if they've got 12" move implying light armor), or I look at the speed (15" plus move? everyone's probably getting a -1 modifier). If the monster seems particularly sluggish (Slow BRAIIIINS ZOMBIES) then I'd give everyone a bonus of some sort. Its a bit arbitrary but works well enough.

For groups of mixed monsters I just pick the dominant type. I don't want to break the monsters up into individual initiatives. Its better to keep them all in one block so you settle into a "I GO/YOU GO" flow as the combat unfolds past the first round.

MISSILE/MAGIC PHASE UP FRONT
First round rule: The first time a character acts in a combat, the only movement allowed is a 3" shift. Therefore most attacks will be ranged or spells unless the parties begin at very close range (definitely the case with surprise, otherwise not so common, especially if not in the front ranks). This is stolen shamelessly from Delta.

This also plays out really nice with the fast and slow PCs described above. You get a flow like this:
Fast PCs: Shift a few feet, missile/magic attacks
Monsters: Shift a few feet, missile/magic attacks
Slow PCs: Shift a few feet, missile/magic attacks
Fast PCs: Full movement, no restrictions
Monsters: Full movement, no restrictions
All PCs: FulL movement, no restrictions
etc.

The PCs that win initiative really feel like they have a significant edge in mobility compared to their initiative losing peers. They can withdraw, shift to cover a flank, move into melee, change formations, etc. It makes playing a lightly armored nimble fighter much more tactically viable (otherwise why not just wear plate ASAP?).

It also really makes it desirable for fighter types to carry a decent missile weapon (hand axe, spear, etc) in hand when wandering about the dungeon so they can chuck it at someone in that first round of action. Otherwise why not carry the best sword you can find? I like giving fighters more tactical options and this method of handling initiative primarily helps the fighters out.

SURPRISE
If there's surprise, no need to roll for initiative. The surprised party is considered to automatically lose initiative without dicing for it.

[verhaden]

Most of the time I employ a very simple initiative system: everybody (including the referee) rolls 1d6. Highest roll wins initiative and play goes clockwise around the table. Referee performs all monster actions on their turn. It's really fun to have the referee roll a 6 and then watch all the players try to roll another 6 for a tiebreaker. Players who tie can defer to another player if they wish. High roll can also choose to go last, etc.

Initiative is different every round of combat, nobody has to remember anything, etc.

***

I've had success with Philotomy's simplified group initiative:

Simple Combat Sequence
1. Both sides roll 1d6 for initiative; high roll wins.
2. Winning side fires missiles, starts spells (and finishes spells of level 1-2)
3. Losing side fires missiles, starts spells (and finishes spells of level 1-2)
4. Both sides move
5. Spells that were started in 2-3 take effect; archers who didn't move and haven't been engaged in melee may fire again
6. Melee

***

I've also become interested in what I've heard about Shadow of the Demon Lord's initiative system:

Rounds
Combat (and any other scene that requires precise timekeeping) unfolds over a series of rounds. Each round lasts about 10 seconds, so there are 6 rounds per minute. During a round everyone present in the scene has an opportunity to do so something. A round has three parts: Fast Turns, Slow Turns, and the End of the Round. During a round, play proceeds through each part one at a time and with the players usually going first.

Fast Turns
First up is the Fast Turn. Any player that wants to can take a fast turn. Players may take their turns in any order they wish. On a fast turn, a player can use one action. Upon resolving that action, the player’s turn is done for the round. Once all the players that want to take a fast turn and have done so, any creatures under the GMs control may take fast turns and use one action on their turns. Again, once a creature resolves its fast turn, it’s done for the round.

Slow Turns
Slow Turns come next. Any player that did not take a fast turn may take a slow turn. Players resolve slow turns in any order they choose, though a player must resolve the entire turn before another player can act. On a slow turn, a player can use two actions. Once all the players have taken their turns, the GM has any of her remaining creatures take their turns, each creature using two actions, and in any order the GM chooses.

End of the Round
The game uses the End of the Round to mark the transition from one round to the next. The End of the Round is when the game resolves any ongoing effects, keep track of durations, and anything else that happens at this part of the round. For example, say a powerful spellcaster creates a cloud of poison gas. Any creature in the area of the poison gas would have to deal with the poison once the gas appears. However, since the gas lingers, any creature in the poison gas would have to deal with the poison again at the end of each round until the gas is dispersed.

Other events may also take place during the end of the round. A potion consumed takes effect at the end of the round. Incapacitated characters roll a d6 to see what happens to them at the end of the round. Some creatures may adjust their positions, make extra attacks, or blight enemies with their vile presence at this part of the round too.

Finally, a discrete end of the round phase reminds everyone that is tracking durations to mark off the round that has passed (for 1 minute durations, you can use a d6 to track the rounds, which is part of the reason I use 10 second rounds).

So, No Initiative Rolls?
That’s right. I tried out the game using several different initiative/turn order determination systems and they all felt bad. I find initiative to be boring. It’s a procedure everyone at the table has to undergo in order to play. It’s like having to eat your meat before you get to eat your pudding. It’s only necessary because the game says it is.

[azera]

Copy/paste from the rules summary I use these days:

General procedure for encounters:
1. Check surprise: base 2-in-6 chance, modified by circumstances
2. GM decides NPC intents
3. Players declare intents (e.g attacking with a specific weapon, casting a specific spell, speaking, waiting, running away, surrendering)
4. Roll initiative: 1d6 per side, each round, high roll wins (reroll ties)
5. Resolve actions (some deviation from declared intents is allowed, on case-by-case basis)
6. Either return to step 2 or proceed to freeform interaction

I use this at the start of an encounter rather than specifically the start of combat, which is why I include "speaking"/"waiting" in step 3 and the option to drop out of round-time in step 6.

If/when combat is engaged, I like to give little hints about what the NPCs are doing, like "the skeletons are continuing to bear down on you while the necromancer begins incanting, your actions?" or "sparks alight in the dragon's mouth as it says, 'insolent mortals, you'll learn to fear my flame', your actions?".  Having the players decide what they're doing based on those little bits of information is usually more fun than blind guesses, and it feels less unfair when monsters focus on disrupting spells from a PC that hadn't cast anything earlier (since I use spell disruption from AD&D).

[jeffb]

Normally for simplicity and a bit of random excitement with OD&D-esque games- D6 per side, High roll wins, Players determine order the PCs go in, no set order for missles or melee or whatever. Roll each round.

For modern cyclic initiative, which I normally hate with an undying passion, I've come to really dig the version from FFG Star Wars. First round each PC rolls initiative which counts as a PC slot- thereafter PC's decide who goes on a PC slot- that way they can go "out of turn" if there is a need for it tactically or what have you.

PC1- rolls 18
Monster group 1 rolls 17
PC2 rolls 13
PC3 rolls 12
Monster group 2 rolls 10
PC4 rolls 6


So any PC goes first, then either group of monsters, than any PC again, any PC again, Then monsters again, then any PC, etc.

Of course, you have to have players who won't abuse the system and make one or more other players sit out the entire round (unless it would make sense for them to do so and they are OK with it). But sometimes it helps to have the same PC go "twice in a row" or have that Rogue who rolled poorly go on the fist PC slot

It also is great fun for me as I try to bust up their plans by using a different monster group that is In a better position, or that is immune to the Magic Users spell effects and pounds on him two slots in a row.....mewhahahahahah.



Above all I prefer no initiative- bounce around from player to player use what makes sense in the fiction at the moment.

[Mordorandor]

I use Chainmail simultaneous move. No dice rolling. Actions happen simultaneously or by sequence of Dex (for spells) or charging, weapon class, and Dex (for melees).

[rustic313]

I've gone full circle on this: from AD&D style (with the DF ADDICT guide!), to Chainmail style phases, to simple you go-we go.

This is what I do now:

1) Surprise.
2) Players (and notable henchmen) all roll 2d6 with bonuses/penalties for DEX. No bonuses in chain. Plate gives a -1. Encumbered gives -1.
Roll 8+ = take an action. 7 = reroll. 6 = no action. If the monsters are particularly tough/nimble or weak/slow then you can give further modifiers to the PCs.
3) Monsters go.
4) All PCs go.
After this it is just "monsters go, PCs go."

For the first action any character takes, the only options are to use a missile weapon in hand, step 3" or less (which can just reposition or put them into melee), charge, or use a spell.

Subsequent actions are unrestricted.

This gives missile weapon users (i.e. fighters) a nice first round edge, and it makes carrying something like a throwable hand axe or spear a good weapon choice. Spellcasters can get a single spell off before they're closed into melee. Front rank positioning is important for charge purpsoes. It gives a bit of the flavor of

The 2d6 roll is reasonable to modify for DEX (unlike a 1d6 roll). It gives the lightly armored fighter a plausible edge (more regularly going first) rather than automatically pushing everyone to plate mail. Going first is important because there's a good chance you can drop lesser foes with one hit at lower levels, and at higher levels positioning to lock down opponents is more important -- both of these tactical considerations privilege fighters which is good.

Its easy to track, and quickly goes to "you go/we go" for simplicity of tracking.

[robertsconley]

Feb 20, 2020 11:05:12 GMT -6 sonicracer100 said:

Since OD&D as written doesn't go into detail about initiative, how do you determine such a thing? Do you use Chainmail, your own initiative system, or backport initiative from a newer system? I even understand that some people may not use initiative! After all, combat is chaotic, and no intiative arguably encapsulates this!

I use individual initiative although I will group troops of characters and monsters together depending on the situation. It will also forgo initiative if it is surprise, narrow corridor, or a constricted space and resolve combat in what I call natural order. Namely I start with those closest to the action. As in my experience from reenactments this best reflects how things play out.

• It is 1d6 roll high.
  
• You can add your dexterity bonus into the die roll.
  
• Fighters can add their to hit bonus which is equal to what they need to hit AC 9 at their current level - AC 9 at 1st level.
  
• Monsters add half their HD (round down) to the die roll.
  
• I manage it by calling out does anybody rolled higher than a 10? (Typically only fighters and high HD creatures). Resolve those in order. Then call out does anybody have a 9, 8, 7 and so on. Avoids having to write down or shuffle an initiative order and can handle groups as large as 8 players. The largest I have tried this with.
  

[geoffrey]

For me, rolling for initiative is a no-no. Highest dexterity goes first. Those with the same dexterity scores act simultaneously. For example:

Suppose the PC party consists of seven members. A list of them in dexterity order is kept as follows:

DEX 13: Finweg the elf
DEX 12: Haugspori the dwarf
DEX 12: Hlanith the thief
DEX 12: Selarn the cleric
DEX 11: Mulberry Scommons the hobbit
DEX 11: Yath the fighter
DEX 5: Nithra the magic-user

Further suppose that a group of minotaurs come around the corner, and the two groups get a good look at each other. Fight!

I roll dexterity for the minotaurs as a group: 11.

1. Finweg acts first.
2. Haugspori, Hlanith, and Selarn act second.
3. Mulberry Scommons, Yath, and the minotuars act third.
4. Nithra acts fourth.

Rise and repeat.

[tdenmark]

Oct 5, 2021 9:27:07 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

For me, rolling for initiative is a no-no. Highest dexterity goes first. Those with the same dexterity scores act simultaneously. For example:

For me rolling initiative is a yes-yes. Essential to adding variety and mixing it up, creating the feeling of sometimes the encounter has the advantage, sometimes the player's do. I only roll initiative at the beginning. I do prefer in general to have Player side goes then Encounter side goes, but there are times for "boss" battles it will all be lined up individually.

Only a 1d6 should be used, it creates the right amount of variation. Anything with a higher die makes Dexterity adjustments lose their impact.

[howandwhy99]

I prefer rolling initiative as simultaneous combat actions can be complicated to adjudicate and take awhile. (I've been refereeing some Diplomacy games lately). They also tend to crash even well-planned, coordinated activity, which I see as one of the core aims of D&D's design: teamwork.

Random initiative each round means 2 groups opposing each other frequently get to go twice in a row. This has led to long term tactical thinking* and attempts at pulling off even more complicated plans in combat. Which I support.

If you do go the route of removing random initiative each round, I believe more powerful attacks could be put in. Critical hits namely. Waiting through 2 rounds of attacks before your turn is similar to taking double damage.

I still prefer initiative vs Crits, not only because the randomness of outcome due to swingy criticals wins out over or at least suppresses the value of strategy, but because players have some control over their fate with initiative. Whenever they win they can still delay their turn. Thus making doubled up actions less likely as long as they hold initiative +1 more round.

Plus rejecting initiative and delaying initiative both have interesting effects on Encounter outcomes when the opponent isn't really a foe.


*yes, I realize that is an oxymoron

[captainjapan]

I find it interesting how underworld combat resolves initiative for magic, missile, and also melee; when many of the games from back then only factored initiative into the movement phase (casualties from missile and melee being removed from the game simultaneously for both sides). I guess the close quarters nature of dungeon combat, combined with limited visibility, means that it's not enough to just declare an attack and gain initiative and charge into battle.

But, wouldn't it still be more realistic for players and monsters to take simultaneous damage each turn. At least it would be more dramatic for a falling foe to always get in one last lick. Maybe, it's not such a popular idea, come to think of it.

Morale, if it's used should be rolled for first, before any other phase of the combat round. That's because the beginning of the round is when the heavy weaponry and combat spells that were only being prepared last round are finally ready to launch. That's intimidating. 

[Starbeard]

For a while I've wanted to try a proper game that borrows the initiative system from D6 Star Wars: no rolls, the order of events being irrelevant unless the effect of one has a direct impact on the execution of the other; in which case, whoever rolled higher for their action goes first.

So if two characters are in melee, the higher attack roll lands first. If the action is a spell or other non-attack activity, just roll a d20 possibly with some standard modifier: character A flees while character B attacks, so character A rolls d20+DX mod, slipping away first if he rolls higher.

[jeffb]

I'm still at the same place I was when I posted back in 2020-

Static initiative - boo. FFG Star Wars system is the only tolerable alternative for me.

I'd rather eliminate initiative entirely and use the action/fiction as a guide the whole time ala DW.

However, the tension of rolling each round I think is the best compromise solution to keep players interested/invested the whole time and worried. Static initiative does the opposite, IME. Players tune out because they know 6 (or whatever #) other actions have to occur before they get to go again.

[dicebro]

Feb 20, 2020 11:05:12 GMT -6 sonicracer100 said:

Since OD&D as written doesn't go into detail about initiative, how do you determine such a thing? Do you use Chainmail, your own initiative system, or backport initiative from a newer system? I even understand that some people may not use initiative! After all, combat is chaotic, and no intiative arguably encapsulates this!
I personally do initiative as:

A.Surprise
B.Group Initiative by d6
C.Movement
D.Missile
E.Melee
F.Spells(Turning and Magic Items included)

From there repeat steps B-F until combat is resolved, with morale checks after each round if needed. Oneach phase, winning side goes first, then losing through each of the phases. The one caveat being that spears strike first on approaching enemies, and polearms/pikes can strike in the second and third row respectively(not first, and always dead last).

I just let the players decide who will go in what order. unless they’ve been ambushed.  And if they can’t decide I just start pointing around the table saying “what do you do?”  It works fine. 

[blackwyvern]

I play a lot of online play by post games and have a family winter campaign that is at the dinner table. For play by post I use common sense all the players post and I decide based on the situation what happens when, usually players get the benefit of the doubt unless they are trying something off the wall. At the table we just use d6 party initiative and go around the table when it is the party's turn to take actions. Both systems work pretty well for their settings. If I was pressed to pick one for both I would use the d6 per side approach. It just works very simply. Around the table for online is as they post.