|
|
Post by delta on Dec 13, 2019 21:56:40 GMT -6
The Vol-1 text for hold person says this: Do you think the intent there is to roll 1d4, or simply for the number to be chosen by the caster? (Likely either 1 to gain the save modifier, or 4 to gain maximum targets, subject to number of enemies.) Note for comparison in later editions: - In 1st Ed. AD&D, Gygax reduced the maximum effect to 3 persons, with graduated penalties at each step (-0 for 3 people, -1 for 2, and -2 for 1).
- In the Moldvay Basic Rules, the number is explicitly given as 1d4 if cast at a group instead of a single target.
- In the Allston Cyclopedia, it was simply up to 4 at the choice of the caster, with no graduated penalties except for a single target.
|
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Dec 13, 2019 22:22:17 GMT -6
I’ve almost never had a player not choose to target one person in order to get the -2 to its save.
If they went for a more mass effect, I would roll saves for all potential targets until either everyone saved or I hit four held persons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott Anderson on Dec 13, 2019 23:14:09 GMT -6
In 1e it seemed clear to us it meant any number up to 3.
Super useful spell, especially if you want to talk instead of fight.
|
|
|
|
Post by peterlind on Dec 14, 2019 0:55:03 GMT -6
At the time the spell is cast, the spellcaster either targets 1 person or a group of persons. If a group is targeted, then roll 1d4 to determine how many of them may be affected by the spell . . .
|
|
|
|
Post by retrorob on Dec 14, 2019 5:28:52 GMT -6
First I had my players rolled for it. Later I let them choose their targets. Same rule for NPC casters.
|
|
|
|
Post by delta on Dec 14, 2019 14:51:59 GMT -6
I'll say that in our games, everyone always casts it 4 people instead of 1 (the save modifier being basically negligible for expected-value purposes).
Random thought assuming the caster can hit 4 people at will: For wizards it's a 3rd level spell and in competition with things like fireball. For clerics it's only a 2nd level spell and relatively a lot more punishing. Esp. granted wizard access at 5th level (20K XP) vs. clerics at 4th (6K XP).
|
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Dec 14, 2019 16:45:32 GMT -6
I generally interpret it as "pick one target, or randomly affect up to 4 targets". Random selection could be either first four failed saves (as per tetramorph) or roll 1d6 for each potential target and four highest results are the victims, or some other method. At one point, I had a perhaps mistaken idea that it's handled somewhat like Sleep: up to 4 targets of 1+1 HD or less, 3 if any target is 2+ HD, 2 targets if any are 3+ HD, and only 1 target if the victim has 4+ HD. |
|
|
|
Post by hamurai on Dec 15, 2019 23:54:14 GMT -6
At the time the spell is cast, the spellcaster either targets 1 person or a group of persons. If a group is targeted, then roll 1d4 to determine how many of them may be affected by the spell . . . That's how I read it, too. |
|
|
|
Post by delta on Dec 16, 2019 1:08:40 GMT -6
At the time the spell is cast, the spellcaster either targets 1 person or a group of persons. If a group is targeted, then roll 1d4 to determine how many of them may be affected by the spell . . . That's how I read it, too. I guess you guys are voting "something else"? (Granted there's only 1 vote for "Roll 1d4" right now.) |
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Dec 16, 2019 3:06:23 GMT -6
Another "viable" (a.k.a. "fun to try") option might be:
Versus normal types:
It will affect from 1-4 normal types (no save; determine number randomly).
Versus heroic/fantastic types:
It can affect only 1 heroic-tier individual, who saves at -2 (personally, I'd prefer -4).
|
|
|
|
Post by peterlind on Dec 16, 2019 10:07:34 GMT -6
Of course, since this is OD&D, you can even re-write the spell if you want to, but in my experience back in the day, we would actually try to read and interpret the rules according to what we believe would be the intention of the authors. A review of the spell, Sleep, shows that a range of 2-16 is given for how many 1st level types were affected by the spell. We interpreted this to mean a roll of 2 8-sided dice. To my understanding, expressions like "2d8" did not come until some time later. Similarly, "1-4" persons was interpreted by the roll of a 1d4. Again, it's your game. . .  |
|
|
|
Post by Scott Anderson on Dec 16, 2019 17:26:21 GMT -6
I'll say that in our games, everyone always casts it 4 people instead of 1 (the save modifier being basically negligible for expected-value purposes). Random thought assuming the caster can hit 4 people at will: For wizards it's a 3rd level spell and in competition with things like fireball. For clerics it's only a 2nd level spell and relatively a lot more punishing. Esp. granted wizard access at 5th level (20K XP) vs. clerics at 4th (6K XP). Right, this is almost always a Cleric spell for the reason you state |
|
|
|
Post by doublejig2 on Dec 16, 2019 18:00:01 GMT -6
And they shall fear the adventuring divine servant at 6K XP! |
|
|
|
Post by hamurai on Dec 17, 2019 0:37:20 GMT -6
I guess you guys are voting "something else"? (Granted there's only 1 vote for "Roll 1d4" right now.)
Done. Aye, our interpretation is not exactly the same as just "Roll 1d4".
|
|
